A number of classy trains operated during their first decade (sometimes more) of streamlined versions with steam power, e.g. 20th Century, Broadway Limited, Chief, Coast Daylight.
Does anyone know (or remember) how effective the air-conditioning technology of that era was in minimizing or eliminating either the smell of coal- (or oil-) burning steam power and/or particulate matter (then known as soot) from the interior accommodations of these elegant trains?
100% effective. Not only were the streamliners air-conditioned, but so were all the operating heavyweight Pullmans. I made many trips in air-conditioned cars hauled by steam, starting at age 6 in 1938, and never smelled coal smoke. However, when air-conditioning equipment lacked proper maintenance, it sometimes gave a rather unpleasant oder of its own, which I remember well.
I rode the following streamliners hauled by steam: Yankee Clipper, Empire State Express, Red Arrow, Royal Blue, New England State (locomotive not streamlined, Niagra west of Albany, Mowhawk east.).
Lots of Pullman heavyweight sleeper rides on the NH, B&M, PRR, NYC,.
Smelled a lot of coal smoke in a lot of non-air-conditioned open-window coaches!
From what I've read and understand, it was very effective as long as we're talking about the trains that essentially traveled as sealed units, i.e. no open windows.
Also keep in mind that how much a steam engine smokes depends on a number of factors, the general condition of the locomotive and how well it's been maintained, the quality of the fuel used, and how well the fireman knows his business.
Mind you, I've ridden on steam excursions with open window coaches and as far a smells and soot are concerned, it's really not that bad to begin with. Of course, this might depend on your point of view. if you love steam you wouldn't care much anyway!
daveklepperSmelled a lot of coal smoke in a lot of non-air-conditioned open-window coaches!
To say nothing of that stray cinder or two!!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
one can imagine that vestibules might have been another story. especially when bellows did not meet properly or curtains not connected ?
You are bringing to mind rather fond memories of opening a window on a European over-night train in the morning and smelling the steam engine up ahead. In the 70's that was quickly becoming a rarity, unless you ventured into East Germany where mainline steam was still common.
I never found it at all objectionable. The occasional cinder might be more annoying though.
Loping along Lackawanna's Boonton Line from Hoboken to Denville in an open vestibule, open window coach behind a venerable Pacific was great! Years later....in the 60's....behind a GP7 or TM, you could still enjoy the aromas of the steam age!
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Henry, so you rode those "Wyatt Earp" coaches! A number of them have found homes on various tourist lines around the country, the New Hope and Ivyland springs to mind.
blue streak 1 one can imagine that vestibules might have been another story. especially when bellows did not meet properly or curtains not connected ?
daveklepper 100% effective. Not only were the streamliners air-conditioned, but so were all the operating heavyweight Pullmans. I made many trips in air-conditioned cars hauled by steam, starting at age 6 in 1938, and never smelled coal smoke. However, when air-conditioning equipment lacked proper maintenance, it sometimes gave a rather unpleasant oder of its own, which I remember well. I rode the following streamliners hauled by steam: Yankee Clipper, Empire State Express, Red Arrow, Royal Blue, New England State (locomotive not streamlined, Niagra west of Albany, Mowhawk east.). Lots of Pullman heavyweight sleeper rides on the NH, B&M, PRR, NYC,. Smelled a lot of coal smoke in a lot of non-air-conditioned open-window coaches!
As I recall, the air conditioning smelled heavily of chlorine, or some other kind of disinfectant.
John Timm
blue streak 1one can imagine that vestibules might have been another story. especially when bellows did not meet properly or curtains not connected ?
In all seriousness, Blue Streak brings up an important point-the joining of full and normal width diaphragms. Did this happen often?
I do not remember any diaphragm problems on air-conditioned trains or Pullman cars. I do remember cinders into open window coaches. On one of my frequent NY-Charlottesville trips ages 10 - 13, at Union Station I changed to a C&O local, and all C&O trains were steam-powered then. I boarded, started eating my cucumber sandwhich that Mom had brown-bagged for me, and we entered the tunnel, and i swallowed a cinder with a peace of cucumber. After a half-hour I was very sick, and used "the facilities" with my lunch leaving my body by the way it had entered. It was a while before I would eat cucumber again! And I always made sure the window was closed when I knew a train was to enter a tunnel.
This entire thread goes a long way in explaining why diesel-powered trains were such a hit with the public when they first went into service in the 1930's. It also explains why "diesel-electric powered" was often found in equipment listings in both public timetables and the Official Guide well into the early 1960's.
While I have ridden behind steam powered trains, I have never done so in 'track pan' territory.
Was there any signal for the passengers to close the windows when approaching a track pan for watering the engine? I am sure water spray would come in through open windows and I doubt that a wet passenger was a happy passenger.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I should respond to the question of full width and normal width diaphragms. The joining happened regularly. Full-width diaphragms always incorporated the regular diaphragm face plates with their design. When passing through the diaphragm itself, the passenger did not notice any difference from a regular diaphragm, the added width was for exterior looks only, and the train-door opening (without an actual door) was the normal size.
In fact, when railroads did away with full-width diaphragms, often they simply discarded the outer portion and kept the central portion as the remaining diaphragm! The end views of some Sante Fe lightweight cars indicate as much.
Regarding water trough spray entering coach windows, my own travel during steam days on lines equipped with troughs included (I think only) the Jersey City - Washington CNJ-Reading-B&O, PRR main lines west of Harrisburg, and the NYC Water Level Route. As far as I can recall, all these trips were in air-conditioned cars. But note that in the steam days before air-conditioning, most long-distance trains did a fair bit of head-end business, mail, express, and baggaqe. After the first few cars passed, the spray probably was not a problem. On local trains water at the terminal was probably enough and the scoop was not used. But I am sure there were cases where the announcement was made, and possibly other readers can recount situations.
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