Hello all ;
Here's an interesting site that 'tells the story' of amtrak in timetables, it has almost every single one up untill November 2010
http://www.timetables.org/
In case someone wishes to 'dig a little deeper', there's another site wich contains a nice collection of pre amtrak stuff
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/
Enjoy it
Amtrak took over passenger services on day one without adjusting or dropping trains, it was whatever the participating roads were running at the time, Amtrak got. They started consolidating trains and routes, dropping duplicate routes, rearranging schedules, adapting to worn out equipment and breaking down trains. So of course day one was a big day. But subsequently schedules and number of trains were cut. As things changed, new trains were added, old ones eliminated, and new services and routes developed. Service, schedules, routings are so much better today than at any time from the beginning. Non paying or unsupported routes no longer exist for the most part, trains that are used are doing the job on old and new routes with help from states like California, Oregon, Washington, New York, Maine, and Illinois. Yes, long distance trains across the northwest still exist but are serving the purpose of Amtrak to provide public transportation where none exists. Acela's, many of the San Diegans, Downeast, and many other services exist today that didn't exist back at the beginning. And the likes of the Broadway and 20th Century Limited are gone. Can't compare today to day one for many reasons...in some cases because track don't go there nomore.
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When Amtrak began (day 1) there were 9 daily trains from Boston To New York. Today there are 20.
Mario, thank you for providing us with those two links.
It is interesting to see the difference in speeds from one time to another; particularly the speeds of the City of New Orleans. The City's (as it was called by IC personnel in southern Mississippi; they also spoke of the Pannyma.) time had to be increased in 1947 after the ICC issued its dictum concerning the maximum speed allowed with certain means of signal and train control systems protection. I wold not be surprised to learn that the original schedule was written with the thought of much running faster than 79 mph.
Johnny
Henry: How about North Carolina, Virginia, Vermont ? Maybe Missouri Tesax, Oklahoma ?
Yes, they all have more and better services than Day One offered. And the states themselves have stepped forward, too.
John WR When Amtrak began (day 1) there were 9 daily trains from Boston To New York. Today there are 20.
NY- Albany. 6 at the start. 2:40 running time. A couple years later, 5 with 2:50 running time. Now 13, with 2:20 - 2:30 running time.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Mario_v Here's an interesting site that 'tells the story' of amtrak in timetables, it has almost every single one up untill November 2010 http://www.timetables.org/
Didn't know about this site. Very cool. Thanks for sharing!
In 1949 the New Haven's Merchants Limited left Boston at 5 pm, stopped at Providence and New Haven and arrived at Grand Central Station, New York at 9 pm. 4 hours.
Today an Acela leaves Boston at 5:10 pm stopping at Providence, New Haven and Stamford and arrives at Pennsylvania Station, New York at 8:45 pm. 3 hours and 35 minutes.
Something that most of us don't remember (possibly by choice) is that many of the trains from prior to May 1, 1971 were little more than one or two coaches and possibly a snack bar-coach. Good examples would be ATSF 23-24, C&NW 1-2, any number of PC trains outside the NEC, etc., etc., etc.
CSSHEGEWISCHSomething that most of us don't remember (possibly by choice) is that many of the trains from prior to May 1, 1971 were little more than one or two coaches and possibly a snack bar-coach.
Of course that was a time when some railroads had become alienated from railroading and were actively trying to get rid of business.
Deggesty Mario, thank you for providing us with those two links. It is interesting to see the difference in speeds from one time to another; particularly the speeds of the City of New Orleans. The City's (as it was called by IC personnel in southern Mississippi; they also spoke of the Pannyma.) time had to be increased in 1947 after the ICC issued its dictum concerning the maximum speed allowed with certain means of signal and train control systems protection. I wold not be surprised to learn that the original schedule was written with the thought of much running faster than 79 mph.
At least between Champaign and Centralia , the 'crack trains' (Citys of NO & Miami, 'Panyma') were allowed 100 Mph versus 79 today, and left from ICs on station in Chicago, therefore dispensing a time consuming back up move that happens today everytime there's a train going from Union Station to the mainline of mid America
oltmannd John WR When Amtrak began (day 1) there were 9 daily trains from Boston To New York. Today there are 20. NY- Albany. 6 at the start. 2:40 running time. A couple years later, 5 with 2:50 running time. Now 13, with 2:20 - 2:30 running time.
In NYC & PC times, the top speed for NY-ALB was 70 Mph, today, a substantial part of the line has top speeds of 90 mph (with some restrictions at 70, 75 and 80 in several places), with a short section were the top speed is 95, just after Pougkeepsie, and a 'big' (about 17 miles) section at 110 Mph just South of Albany, that explains the shorter times of today. Yet some times today are actually slower than they were when the Turboliners were used, here's an example: Albany - Hudson, Turbos 19 minutes, today : 25 minutes. Maybe the 'tie scorching index' is lower today, or the fact that Genesis are slow performers in terms of acceleration is too evident
John WR In 1949 the New Haven's Merchants Limited left Boston at 5 pm, stopped at Providence and New Haven and arrived at Grand Central Station, New York at 9 pm. 4 hours. Today an Acela leaves Boston at 5:10 pm stopping at Providence, New Haven and Stamford and arrives at Pennsylvania Station, New York at 8:45 pm. 3 hours and 35 minutes.
The Acelas Schedules have way too much padding, I believe 3hrs 20 or 3hrs 25 are possible
Mario_vThe Acelas Schedules have way too much padding, I believe 3hrs 20 or 3hrs 25 are possible
I'm sure you are right, Mario. Also more time could be saved by omitting stops at Back Bay (1 mile from South Station) and Route 128 (11 miles from South Station. And Stamford is a commuter stop. Take those away and Acela Boston to New York could be cut to 3 hours. When there is a new catenary between New York and New Haven even more time could be saves.
Finally, the Merchants Limited had to stop 20 minutes in New Haven to change engines. Those engine changes were done away with in the 90's.
John
John WR Mario_vThe Acelas Schedules have way too much padding, I believe 3hrs 20 or 3hrs 25 are possible I'm sure you are right, Mario. Also more time could be saved by omitting stops at Back Bay (1 mile from South Station) and Route 128 (11 miles from South Station. And Stamford is a commuter stop. Take those away and Acela Boston to New York could be cut to 3 hours. When there is a new catenary between New York and New Haven even more time could be saves. Finally, the Merchants Limited had to stop 20 minutes in New Haven to change engines. Those engine changes were done away with in the 90's. John
You can find the padding in Amtrak NEC schedules pretty easily. They don't build much slack into the running times EXCEPT in the last leg to destination or intermediate station that has "recovery dwell" (New York, in the case of Acelas). Just compare the running time in the leg in each direction and you'll see the padding.
To/from Stamford and NYP 52 vs 40 minutes, so padding is 12 minutes.
I find it hard to understand why the Acela should stop at Stamford at all. Stamford is a commuter station.
Tradition. NH would run GCT or NYP with stop at Stamford. Like PRR to Newark, DL&W to Newark, Erie to Passaic and Ridgewood, B&A to Back Bay, etc. The idea was to pick up or drop off passengers who rode to or from intervening stations. It was called "service".
henry6Amtrak took over passenger services on day one without adjusting or dropping trains, it was whatever the participating roads were running at the time, Amtrak got.
henry6Tradition. NH would run GCT or NYP with stop at Stamford.
You are right, Henry. Many New Haven trains did stop at Stamford. And they also ran locals that were really local. For example, the Beacon Hill which stopped at East Greenwich and Hillsgrove RI. I could walk to Hillsgrove and catch the Beacon Hill.
But the Merchants Limited was their crack express. It did not stop at Stamford. And the Acela is supposed to be a crack express too.
oltmannd John WR Mario_vThe Acelas Schedules have way too much padding, I believe 3hrs 20 or 3hrs 25 are possible I'm sure you are right, Mario. Also more time could be saved by omitting stops at Back Bay (1 mile from South Station) and Route 128 (11 miles from South Station. And Stamford is a commuter stop. Take those away and Acela Boston to New York could be cut to 3 hours. When there is a new catenary between New York and New Haven even more time could be saves. Finally, the Merchants Limited had to stop 20 minutes in New Haven to change engines. Those engine changes were done away with in the 90's. John You can find the padding in Amtrak NEC schedules pretty easily. They don't build much slack into the running times EXCEPT in the last leg to destination or intermediate station that has "recovery dwell" (New York, in the case of Acelas). Just compare the running time in the leg in each direction and you'll see the padding. To/from Stamford and NYP 52 vs 40 minutes, so padding is 12 minutes.
It's maybe the 'american way' of padding schedules. Here in Europe, padding time is distributed thruout the schedule, and 'crak trains' are differentiated from others. Normally, this extra times are added per each 62 miles of travel (100 Km) and the most important trains get to have some extra 3 minutes, and all other 4 to 5, we call it 'regularity margin' and it's pretty useful if one gets some restrictive signals in the way. There are some RRs that also ad some extra minutes in the last leg of the trip, one of them being the Spanish national railways, in ordre to add some 'robustness' to the schedule and get some extra garantees of on time arrival.
As for Amtrak schedules, I've been trying to apply this 'regularity margin' principle, and the final result is not very different from what's in effect
Mario_vIt's maybe the 'american way' of padding schedules.
Padding of American Amtrak schedules? Surely you jest, Mario. The ancient countries of Europe such as your own may resort to the nefarious practice of padding schedules. But no American railroad would ever, ever do such a thing by even a second. Those who suggest it live in a world of self delusion.
Surely you jest....Shirley invented the pad on NJT...6 minutes Denville to Dover westbound is now carded at up to 20 minutes! And they stopped making pillows in Dover well over 7 decades ago!
henry6 Amtrak took over passenger services on day one without adjusting or dropping trains, it was whatever the participating roads were running at the time, Amtrak got. They started consolidating trains and routes, dropping duplicate routes, rearranging schedules, adapting to worn out equipment and breaking down trains. So of course day one was a big day. But subsequently schedules and number of trains were cut.
Amtrak took over passenger services on day one without adjusting or dropping trains, it was whatever the participating roads were running at the time, Amtrak got. They started consolidating trains and routes, dropping duplicate routes, rearranging schedules, adapting to worn out equipment and breaking down trains. So of course day one was a big day. But subsequently schedules and number of trains were cut.
Henry,
I wonder what Shirley is doing these days. I assume she is still President of her own consulting company but she seems to have dropped out of sight.
I refuse to believe what you say about Denville to Dover. I deny it. Absolutely deny it. Denial is the way that I live.
Eastbound trains not stopping at Denville going via Morristown were scheduled at 5 minutes, with stop 6. Look especially at weekend westbounds today....mostly 14 minutes but some 16 minutes. Regular weekday schedules allow 7 to 10 minutes in either direction. I have not noticed that the track is longer than it was when I was growing up...but I do notice the speed limits are five to ten mph slower.
Isn't admitting American railroads pad timetables and there are other ways America falls short of absolute perfection kind of, well, unAmerican?
Any SCHEDULE for anything, anywhere is padded to enhance the possibility of On Time completion.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
My experience has been that even airline schedules have a bit of padding in them to allow for delays in pushing away from the gate, waiting for a runway slot, headwinds, etc.
John WR henry6Tradition. NH would run GCT or NYP with stop at Stamford. You are right, Henry. Many New Haven trains did stop at Stamford. And they also ran locals that were really local. For example, the Beacon Hill which stopped at East Greenwich and Hillsgrove RI. I could walk to Hillsgrove and catch the Beacon Hill. But the Merchants Limited was their crack express. It did not stop at Stamford. And the Acela is supposed to be a crack express too. John
I suspect there are quite few more folk living in western Connecticut exurbs now than in the heyday of the ML. Must be a fair number of folk going from there to Phila and DC. No reason for a two seat ride (or worse)
Also, the ML was a GCT train, not a through train to DC. The analog for an Acela would be the Senator, which did make Stamford and Bridgeport - probably for the same reason - thru traffic west of NYP.
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track3/senator195504.html
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