http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/2013/04/27/news/doc517c1c2eafba8478078580.txt#photo1
Wonder how soon a fed judge takes this case ?
Something in the mountain airs in NYS. Adorandacks have a group of landowners who would rather see snowmobiles and other AWD off road vehicles ripping up the woods rather than trains bringing in money. These Catamounts seem to be as shortsighted, arrogant, and ignorant and self serving. Ignorant I say because they neither mountaineers seem to be talking sense.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
The rail line is owned by the county and leased to the museum. Most of the line has been out of service for almost 40 years and the line was severed in the 2011 hurricane season. The county has been considering turning the ROW into a trail. It would be a shame after the work that the museum has done. Not sure why a fed court would get involved. Seems the city already is ahead on the legal procedure regarding the potential lead paint hazard. Newswire story on trail proposal:
http://trn.trains.com/en/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2012/10/Local%20official%20eyes%20ex%20Ulster%20Delaware%20tracks%20for%20trail.aspx
Rail trails seem to be the politically correct thing to do...organic, natural, healthy, etc. binge in action. Not always rationally thought out, very self centered and greed and short sighted. It is a throwback to the mid 20th Century of throwing rails away as being non pertinent to contemporary life.. And, of course, the intimation that those who like trains are crazy people. But a nice bicycle ride or walk in the country with an organic loaf of bread and non sulfate wine in the picnic basket is perfect living,
I know nothing about this particular issue. But to snidely dismiss rail trails is just evidence of a lack of knowledge. It really comes down to ownership and serving the public. In the western Chicago suburbs, we lost the CA&E about 55 years ago to an expressway and the general tide against interurbans, even a fine, fast one like the 3rd Rail. Fortunately the abandoned ROW was converted to a 62 mile trail, the Illinois Prairie Path, which is enjoyed by ~800,000 users today. Losing the CA&E was very bad (8 million passengers yearly at its peak) but at least one can still walk or ride the same route thanks to the effort of the volunteers who originally saved the ROW.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I understand that trails are popular but I think its a lie when you talk about all the wonderful revenue it will create. How much revenue of any kind does the CA&E generate ? In the millions ? Thousands? Hundreds ? Last I knew a couple bottles of Evian water costs less than 5 bucks ! Perhaps a meal for 20-30 bucks, if they don't brownbag it...
Will the taxpayers ever see a return on investment ?
Randy
Randy Stahl I understand that trails are popular but I think its a lie when you talk about all the wonderful revenue it will create. How much revenue of any kind does the CA&E generate ? In the millions ? Thousands? Hundreds ? Last I knew a couple bottles of Evian water costs less than 5 bucks ! Perhaps a meal for 20-30 bucks, if they don't brownbag it... Will the taxpayers ever see a return on investment ? Randy
And how much of a return on investment do taxpayers receive on public parks??
A lot of the state parks (Wisconsin and Maine) require annual fee's and a sticker to go on your windshield. At least you can know how many people use the parks and it does produce some revenue.
You clearly have no knowledge of the IPP. The CA&E went out of business in 1961 and the ROW was largely taken over by DuPage County. Volunteers developed the trail starting in 1966 and maintained it until 1986, because of the liability insurance crisis in the US. The county (and Kane and Cook) maintain the path, with considerable help still from volunteers. The ROI is not an issue with taxpayers here.
From the eastern edge of Glen Ellyn to west of downtown Wheaton, the IPP is great train-watching place for the parallel UP-West Line.
henry6But a nice bicycle ride or walk in the country with an organic loaf of bread and non sulfate wine in the picnic basket is perfect living,
Well, Henry, if you can't lick 'em join 'em. How about a new movement? Interstates to trails.
John
The Catskill trail is a different situation from an urban trail like the CA&E pathway. A Catskill trail will attract vacationers and weekenders who will fill motel rooms, restaurants, bike rentals, etc.
Also this topic has a thread in the General Discussion section.
MidlandMike Randy Stahl I understand that trails are popular but I think its a lie when you talk about all the wonderful revenue it will create. How much revenue of any kind does the CA&E generate ? In the millions ? Thousands? Hundreds ? Last I knew a couple bottles of Evian water costs less than 5 bucks ! Perhaps a meal for 20-30 bucks, if they don't brownbag it... Will the taxpayers ever see a return on investment ? Randy The Catskill trail is a different situation from an urban trail like the CA&E pathway. A Catskill trail will attract vacationers and weekenders who will fill motel rooms, restaurants, bike rentals, etc. Also this topic has a thread in the General Discussion section.
That's it. The museum and railroad have taken too long to make something happen. The hike and bike trail can be done in less than a year. Will the hotels and restaurants be overflowing with guests and money? Doubtful...especially in Kingston; it will most likely be a local social stroll and cycle path. Plus the millions of dollars to be dedicated to the trail will be coming out of public funds. One wonders if the same financial support and zeal for the CMRR and ESRRM would not have yielded the desired tourist money by now.
Some people will stay in Kingston convenient to the Thruway and other trails; some will stay in Phoenicia and other towns within the county; and some may take multi-day bike tours where the operator follows the clients in a sag wagon with the luggage. Like you say, the county has seen only a small part of the rail line reactivated, and now they want to try something else. If that does not work out, they may just ask for funds to put the rails back in. What are you looking at up there... no need to roll your eyes.
From a friend of mine relaying comments from another source:
If indeed there is a concern from pollution resulting from simply moving railroad cars over a section of track might that concern be extended to all of those cars moved over the track during its history? After all, they had lead paint and may well have had other polluting substances. Coal, for example, is well known to be a source of heaving metals. So should a hiking trail be built along a rail line at all? Even if the trail itself is paved over what is to keep people from wandering into the area alongside it and being exposed to all that pollution?
John WR If indeed there is a concern from pollution resulting from simply moving railroad cars over a section of track might that concern be extended to all of those cars moved over the track during its history? After all, they had lead paint and may well have had other polluting substances. Coal, for example, is well known to be a source of heaving metals. So should a hiking trail be built along a rail line at all? Even if the trail itself is paved over what is to keep people from wandering into the area alongside it and being exposed to all that pollution?
Indeed. Tail wagging the dog, again. "I don't want those things near me. Hmmmm. What justifcations can I find? I know! Lead paint!"
Brilliant....
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
John WRIf indeed there is a concern from pollution resulting from simply moving railroad cars over a section of track might that concern be extended to all of those cars moved over the track during its history? After all, they had lead paint and may well have had other polluting substances.
To be fair, the concern was that the shop was going to remove all the lead paint in one move, perhaps by burning it off or using wire wheels, and (presumably) not taking any special precautions to keep the vapors and dust confined, or 'safely' dispose of the hazardous remains.
The correct approach to an injunction would involve supervision of the process, and strict scrutiny of the results. I think we all agree that the injunction here, and its supposed rationale, was an excuse: the mayor is trying to claim, explicitly or implicitly, that the rail organization is not only intent on polluting, but will be criminally negligent in what they do. Don'tcha love the spin side of politics?
Now, if only the railroad guy would get his foot out of his word processor and comprehend better ways of addressing the situation...
OvermodTo be fair, the concern was that the shop was going to remove all the lead paint in one move, perhaps by burning it off or using wire wheels, and (presumably) not taking any special precautions to keep the vapors and dust confined, or 'safely' dispose of the hazardous remains.
No doubt you are correct, Don. But is there any possible reason to believe that would be done? This is, after all, a museum with visitors coming and going. The first people to breath in any contaminated air would be museum visitors.
There working facility can be seen on Google Earth at:
41°55'50.37"N 74° 0'11.23"W
It's just 2 tracks out in the open with some surrounding maintenance equipment. It looks more off-limits than a museum. There are no tracks leading into a building, where paint could be sandblasted or removed in a controlled environment. It's more or less in the middle of the city. This should have concerned the local municipality, whether or not they were politically motivated. I presume the injunction was to stop the work from being done in the city. The RR chairman indicated the work was to be done off-site. Putting the city truck on the ROW seems over the top.
The passenger cars can be seen on both sides of the US 209 highway crossing at:
41°56'36.50"N 74° 2'43.33"W
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