Trains.com

Rfif loan For all aboard Flroida

2810 views
11 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 333 posts
Rfif loan For all aboard Flroida
Posted by ontheBNSF on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 3:08 PM

Railroad to Freedom

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 4:43 PM

You must not have much experience with 'private' funding of large capital projects.

It's routine to investigate any source of low-interest financing in these circumstances, just as it's routing to investigate PILOT or other methods of reducing or eliminating tax or community liability.  If you have a complaint, blame the general structure of capitalist finance.  But don't go saying that the Florida high-speed people are bellying up to the public trough as if the loans were grants.  If you read your own article, you'll see that the 'loans' will be repaid, in roughly the same timeframe as a mortgage, with interest.  (Perhaps the interest will be set so low as to be 'covered' by increases in inflation, but that's not something to fault the Government or the business people over....)

Not that there isn't plenty of grant money that 'should' be available for high-speed rail design and systems analysis.  But that's a separate topic for a separate post.

RME

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 4:47 PM

Big business and private money nor big government and public money alone built the U.S. alone, but over and over again the two have relied on each other to progress and boost the other.  There are no black and white absolutes despite what our political leaders want you to think.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    August 2012
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by John WR on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:13 PM

What does All Aboard Florida have to do with Amtrak?

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 333 posts
Posted by ontheBNSF on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:28 PM

The main issue is that the haters have fame for their fires. Most of these so called private projects have promised not to use government money. By accepting these loans they are doing just that. One should not boast about being 100% privately funded then take government money.

Railroad to Freedom

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:17 AM

There are many who go into many different businesses and ventures in the U.S. who wouldn't do so if it weren't for governments' loans and grants, easements, abatement's, guarantees, employee skill education, etc.  If they don't get that, they don't put their money up.  In effect, there is no such thing as 100% privately funded endeavors because they all rely on governments to provide something and public schools and eductiona programs to provide skilled workers.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 333 posts
Posted by ontheBNSF on Thursday, April 25, 2013 2:04 PM

John WR

What does All Aboard Florida have to do with Amtrak?

Nothing. It has to do with All Aboard Florida. All Aboard Florida has to do with Passenger rail.

Railroad to Freedom

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:13 PM

AAF work is probably going to be divided into 3 parts.

1. EIS for the double tracking MIA - Coccoa  -Not much problem unless there is any relocating of track off present ROW.

2.  EIS for new stations  MIA, FLL, West Palm, Coccoa   --  May need some resolution

3.  EIS Coccoa - Orlando  10 miles Coccoa - bee line May be somewhat difficult especially from Nimbys. Bee line - Orlando. Probably a moderate problem  especially where it flys over / goes under 2 or 3 cross roads.

So why the loan before it is shovel ready.  ?  An adverse finding from Coccoa - Orlando delay and the route would not be shovel ready.  Then FEC gets un encumbered use of the double track ?

The Raleigh - Petersburg route may be closer because final EIS is filed.  So why has there not been any progress on completing this route to shovel ready?

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,449 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, April 26, 2013 8:25 PM

ontheBNSF

The main issue is that the haters have fame for their fires. Most of these so called private projects have promised not to use government money. By accepting these loans they are doing just that. One should not boast about being 100% privately funded then take government money.

I hate to admit I agree with an "Amtrak hater", but this time I do.  It seems ironic that Fortress Investment would need the money, but then I remembered they are in the business of working off of other people's money.  They have found a way to tap into another money stream.  Much of their profit is said will come from real estate development around the Miami, FL, & PB stations.  The whole thing sounds like a real estate development with an attached rail line.  It reminds me of a century ago when sub-division developers would build a trolley line out to their new project, and sell the line soon after the last house was sold.  If the new Cocao-Orlando line is not profitable, they could unload it to a government agency.  It could connect to the long sought Amtrak Jax-Miami route along the FEC.  I suppose more for Amtrak haters to hate.

  • Member since
    August 2012
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by John WR on Friday, April 26, 2013 8:57 PM

ontheBNSF
Nothing. It has to do with All Aboard Florida. All Aboard Florida has to do with Passenger rail.

Do you suggest it is not sufficient to hate Amtrak but all passenger rail should be hated too?

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, February 17, 2014 10:34 AM

Florida Governor Rick Scott may provide $200M for AAF to build rail station at ORL terminal.  Have some real ideas about this but I'll leave them to you posters.

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-orlando-international-scott-20140217,0,892246.story

 

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • 6,099 posts
Posted by Phoebe Vet on Monday, February 17, 2014 11:01 AM

The article is very clear that it is just a loan, unlike the billions they GIVE to highly profitable large businesses every year to move jobs from one state to another.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy