CHI - Joliet HrSR route picked FRA approval

[blue streak 1]

New detailed Springfield map link will post in original post

http://www.idothsr.org/pdf/feis_vol_2/appendix_b.pdf

 

[schlimm]

 "A new multi-modal train station in Normal and promise of 110-mph service has attracted more than $200 million in private investments to its downtown area, an example of how rail investment attracts economic growth.  Future rail investments along the Chicago to St. Louis corridor will spur additional economic activity across Illinois in towns where new or newly-renovated stations are under development or in the planning stages."

Already so much economic development in just one city along the route.  

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Don't have links but believe FRA has approved the RI route to Joilet and the 10th st route thru springfield.

Here is link and I will post it on original post

http://www.fra.dot.gov/eLib/details/L04151

 

 

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Don't have links but believe FRA has approved the RI route to Joilet and the 10th st route thru springfield.

[MidlandMike]

rcdrye

...

The track connection at Joliet is a LONG walk from Joliet Union Station...

From Joliet Union Station bldg, it's about 450 ft south, or 650 ft east to the connections.  This is typical at airport concourses.  A short tunnelway under the tracks followed by a long corridor, with perhaps a moving sidewalk as at the airport.  If it was reversible, it could go toward the platform before  train time, and toward the main station after arrival.

[schlimm]

New Lenox, maybe?  It's the closest to DuPage (just south of the end of I355), but also pretty close to Joliet.  I found the Joliet station pretty decent in the past, but that was 13 years ago.

[jclass]

I took the Texas Eagle south and north on the Heritage line out of Chi four weeks ago.  Going south, we were held up for freight traffic at the Corwith crossing.  Amtrak on-board staff apologized for the delay - about five minutes.  We moved over the other crossings at speed both directions.  I thought of the Brighton Park history as we hustled through.  Movement through the track maze south of CUS was slow, but once through it we moved quickly on smooth track.  The route to me is capable of very high speed with few crossings.  It benefits from being adjacent to I-55 to Summit and then the canal from there to Joliet.

So RI is the choice. Certainly, I don't know all the parlaying that goes into making things happen, but a couple questions come to mind regarding this decision to use the RI.

Wasn't part of the CREATE plan to establish a separate passenger-only route for Amtrak going south and east?  Will other Amtrak trains eventually somehow use the RI to get to NS/CSX/CN lines?

Will there be an intermediate suburban stop established somewhere between CUS and Joliet, similar to Glenview on the north?

Is there any attention paid to having a stop with easy park and ride access from I-355 or the Tri-state from the north?  (Central Joliet is not the most inviting locale).  I'm thinking in particular a stop convenient from DuPage County (the suburban county west of the city of Chicago) which is just north of the canal because... DuPage's population is 900,000+.  It is the wealthiest county in the midwest; 19 of its cities have household incomes above $100,000.  The residents are not foreign to taking commuter trains.  Good prospects for high speed train travel?

[rcdrye]

During the Brighton Park crossing reconstruction a couple of years ago, Amtrak detoured the Eagle via the Metra/Rock Island by backing out of Union and heading up the St. Charles Air Line to  16th St, where the SW connection from the SCAL to the old RI still exists, most likely for Metra equipment transfer.  The proposed connection at Root to the old Chicago Junction line never existed, even in PRR days, so it's new.  Also new would be a double track to the RI, since the existing bridge in the SW quadrant is single track. That's not a huge issue as the grade changes required to use the existing bridge would be pretty demanding in any case. Not clear whether the industrial building in the NE quadrant off of NS is active or not.

An alternative would be to tie the whole thing into the CREATE P2 project to route the former Wabash line to Orland Park onto the Metra/RI line.  A ramp along the C&WI/BRC from around 75th  to the Metra/RI line between 78th off of the old C&WI line used by Metra now for Southwest service would eliminate two sharp turns without requiring a whole lot of real estate.

The track connection at Joliet is a LONG walk from Joliet Union Station...

[MidlandMike]

billio

...

2)  The connection between METRA (ex-Rock) and the UP at Joliet promises to be an interesting piece of engineering.

...

Google Earth shows a connection in the SE quadrant of the crossing at Joliet.

41°31'26.15"N  88° 4'43.50"W

[richhotrain]

As I understand it, after crossing the old PRR lift bridge at the south branch of the Chicago River, instead of proceeding on its current southwest route, Amtrak would follow the old PRR/C&WI tracks south to Root Street, just south of 40th Street, and turn east to the Rock Island tracks a few blocks away. 

There is an old connection there onto the Rock Island tracks from the Stock Yards days, but an eastbound connection at Root Street from the old PRR/C&WI tracks no longer exists.  So, it would have to be built. 

After that, the old PRR tracks turn east at Englewood and cross the Rock Island tracks at 63rd Street.  So, Amtrak could be a connection there to the Rock Island tracks but the proposed flyover at that point would probably negate that.

Then, the old Rock Island tracks run south-southwest to Joliet where they cross the current Amtrak route. 

Between Englewood and Joliet, there really is no connection for re-routing Amtrak to the Rock Island tracks as a detour route.

Rich

 

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billio

6)  Also blithely ignored is the idea that some sort of trackage rights payments may be due METRA for using the latter's line between downtown and Joliet.  Since it's METRA's line now, Amtrak will be the interloper, and the question of extra capacity -- and who pick up the tab for it -- may one day loom large.

 

In sum, an interesting post.  Cheers!

your points are well taken.  the third track thru this area is really a bucket of worms.  who pays for it?  I would think probably a mixture of federal and state funds ?  the percentage mix will be interesting. the third ( middle ? )track will probably be considered federally financed with the new track METRA ?  metra may be able to use HrSR track for some express service ( ? ).  Main thing will be METRA will probably dispatch the whole route ( ? ).  So trackage payments may be moot but maintenance will certainly be a cost.

I would hope that the heritage route will be kept as a route and all crews kept qualified in case of any kind of blockage on the RI route.  In fact has AMTRAK ever detoured over the RI or is there no connection ?

[billio]

A few Chicagoland thoughts:

1) The Englewood Flyover (63rd and State, CREATE Project P1, for those who keep track of these things), which was supposed to have been started but still seems stalled, is an absolute necessity.

2)  The connection between METRA (ex-Rock) and the UP at Joliet promises to be an interesting piece of engineering.

3)  One suspects they'll almost have to grade separate over CN (ex-EJ&E) at Joliet.

4)  Going from Union Station access (ex-PRR) to METRA (ex-ROCK & ex-NYC) likewise promises to be an interesting piece of engineering.

5)  Although I don't believe that 110 mph train speeds over METRA between Joliet and what, 35th Street South (?) are too likely, the added traffic almost certainly will mandate several rail-highway grade separations, especially on heavily travelled thoroughfares, and it would be nice if an equal number of lesser crossings were simply taken out of service.

6)  Also blithely ignored is the idea that some sort of trackage rights payments may be due METRA for using the latter's line between downtown and Joliet.  Since it's METRA's line now, Amtrak will be the interloper, and the question of extra capacity -- and who pick up the tab for it -- may one day loom large.

 

In sum, an interesting post.  Cheers!

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richhotrain

Still. running high speed trains through grade crossings at 110 MPH in highly populated residential areas, along a route where Metra Rock Island commuter trains run throughout the day, is going to be challenging at best from a safety perspective.  Lots of pedestrians and vehicular traffic.

Rich

Rich --  quite right.   with the third track of the route we can see many of the problems that occur on the BN speedway and UP routes that Carl often speaks about.

[daveklepper]

If this is high speed, they will have to grade separate, either a trench or an eyesore embankment.

[richhotrain]

That study identifies a whole bunch of grade crossings protected by Four Quad Gates.

Still. running high speed trains through grade crossings at 110 MPH in highly populated residential areas, along a route where Metra Rock Island commuter trains run throughout the day, is going to be challenging at best from a safety perspective.  Lots of pedestrians and vehicular traffic.

Rich

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richhotrain

That's what I tried to do, but I was hoping for something more specific.

Rich

try this link  ---  just remember to take it to bed with you ---  a lot of reading

http://idothsr.org/pdf/11%2015%2012%20eis%20hsr%20-%20release.pdf this is only summary

You might want to make this one of your favorites --

edit -- gave wrong link use this one

http://www.idothsr.org/tier_1/deis.aspx

 

[richhotrain]

That's what I tried to do, but I was hoping for something more specific.

I don't get what you said about one crossing at grade.  There are lots of grade crossings at Blue Island and beyond.

Rich

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richhotrain

Help me with this routing.

Are trains departing Chicago Union Station going to cross the old PRR lift Bridge, then continue south on the old PRR/C&WI tracks to Root Street and then turn east to connect with the Rock Island tracks for the trip to Joliet?

Rich

Use the map and blow it up  ( in windows hit  [ ctrl + ] together). you can then see the whole map breakdown. also notice new double and triple track with only one grade crossing to eliminate. probably $500M less than present heritage route ?

  http://idothsr.org/pdf/feis_vol_1/appendix_a.pdf

 

[richhotrain]

Help me with this routing.

Are trains departing Chicago Union Station going to cross the old PRR lift Bridge, then continue south on the old PRR/C&WI tracks to Root Street and then turn east to connect with the Rock Island tracks for the trip to Joliet?

Rich

[blue streak 1]

Here is a complete map of CHI --  STL.  7Mb

http://idothsr.org/pdf/feis_vol_1/appendix_a.pdf

[blue streak 1]

FRA has picked the old Rock Island route for the CHI Union station - Joilet HrSR route.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/prdailynews/news.asp?id=33367

One more step in getting 110 MPH service alll the way to St. Louis. Will also allow for final design of Joilet uniion station rebuilding ?

modified post to link FRA approval

http://www.fra.dot.gov/eLib/details/L04151

Edit ------  adding detaild link to Springfield map for UP & AMTRAK. IMHO a good solution to speed up trains.  Maybe eventually is CHI - SPRINGFIELD only trains initiated coould use old downtown AMTRAK station ?

http://www.idothsr.org/pdf/feis_vol_2/appendix_b.pdf