We're riding #4 from Los Angeles to Galesburg tomorrow. Any suggestions on an amount to tip the sleeping car attendant?
Thanks
For two of you, I would suggest ten dollars each night as the minimum, especially if you are given extraordinary service.
There is the story of the man taking his first trip by Pullman who asked the porter what his average tip was. The porter told him a certain amount, and the traveler tipped him in accord. Later, the porter commented that this traveler was the first pasenger who had come up to his average.
Early in my travel by sleeper, I asked a Pullman conductor what the usual tip for a night in a roomette was, and he gave me an amount (six months earlier, I had tipped twice that amount for a night in an upper berth).
Johnny
081552 We're riding #4 from Los Angeles to Galesburg tomorrow. Any suggestions on an amount to tip the sleeping car attendant? Thanks
How much is a personal choice. However, here is some information to keep in mind. Although Amtrak does not publish the average compensation package for its sleeping car attendants, the BLS has a category that appears to cover it. If the BLS category is accurate, i.e. includes Amtrak's sleeping car attendants, the average compensation package for an attendant is $54,236 per year.
The notion that the compensation package of today's sleeping car attendants is akin to that of the underpaid porters of yesterday probably is not correct. Accordingly, unless I receive unusually good service, I don't tip at all.
Of the three sleeping car trips that I have made this year, only one attendant warranted a tip. I rode the Silver Meteor from Jacksonville to Miami in July. The attendant was helpful, but he did not have to do anything to my room since I did not use the bed. I gave him $5.
Heaps of workers with average compensation packages below those paid to Amtrak's sleeping car attendants don't come in for tips. What justifies tipping a sleeping car attendant when they get a decent wage for doing their job?
Sam1 Heaps of workers with average compensation packages below those paid to Amtrak's sleeping car attendants don't come in for tips. What justifies tipping a sleeping car attendant when they get a decent wage for doing their job?
Thats being unusually cheap, IMHO. I could make a similar argument that Amtrak would establish a "no tips" policy if they felt the way you do. However, I'll turn it around and ask what $55k a year customer facing job demands as much from an employee as sleeping car attendant? Customer service 24 by 7 and the attendant cannot go to bed until the last Sleeping Car passenger does? I am hard pressed to think of anything similar.
I tip $10 a night per compartment on average for average service more for above average service. Highest tip was $20 a night. It's hard to see who tips and who does not. I tip on final exit from the car but I have seen others tip in their compartment towards the trip end. So hard to tell what % tips and what does not.
Sam1Although Amtrak does not publish the average compensation package for its sleeping car attendants, the BLS has a category that appears to cover it. If the BLS category is accurate, i.e. includes Amtrak's sleeping car attendants, the average compensation package for an attendant is $54,236 per year.
Note the term used is compensation package, not salary. The way these things usually are, the so-called benefits value is usually about 1/3 of the salary, so that means these attendants are actually being paid about $40K. To not tip if service is adequate is certainly frugal at best, miserly at worst.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm Sam1Although Amtrak does not publish the average compensation package for its sleeping car attendants, the BLS has a category that appears to cover it. If the BLS category is accurate, i.e. includes Amtrak's sleeping car attendants, the average compensation package for an attendant is $54,236 per year. Note the term used is compensation package, not salary. The way these things usually are, the so-called benefits value is usually about 1/3 of the salary, so that means these attendants are actually being paid about $40K. To not tip if service is adequate is certainly frugal at best, miserly at worst.
The normal burdens for Amtrak are in the neighborhood of 40 per cent. People are paid a compensation package that includes wages and benefits. That is the value package.
I guess you just cannot help yourself. Throwing in a derogatory comment appears to be baked into your DNA.
CMStPnP I tip $10 a night per compartment on average for average service more for above average service. Highest tip was $20 a night. It's hard to see who tips and who does not. I tip on final exit from the car but I have seen others tip in their compartment towards the trip end. So hard to tell what % tips and what does not.
On a recent trip from Jacksonville to Miami, I was the only person getting off of the car that I was in who gave a tip. I was the first off the car, and I watched the others get off to see if any money parted hands. Of course, I did not see what those who got off between Jacksonville and Miami did, but my impression is that most of today's riders, who don't remember the so-called good old days, don't tip.
Don't you think you are over reacting to Schlimm with your "derogatory comment" remark? After all, you do tip Amtrak employees where tips have traditionally been given to the comment could not possibly apply to you. As far as other people who decline to leave a tip for service perhaps they can be entrusted to defend their own behavior.
Sam1Accordingly, unless I receive unusually good service, I don't tip at all.
You were the one who said you don't tip unless you receive unusually good service. To call that frugal or miserly is not derogatory. It is simply an accurate and rather understated description of what occurred. Were you of limited means, that would be understood, but you have informed us many times of your executive status in a Fortune 500 corporation, so that is not the case. CMStPnP's use of the term "cheap" was more to the point of rudeness, but I notice you said nothing. You say "I was the only person getting off of the car that I was in who gave a tip" but in reality, you have no idea if they gave the attendant a tip earlier or not. To tip or not tip is your choice, but the opinion others may draw is the natural consequence of your action.
According to Webster's New College Dictionary, miserly is an adjective relating to or characteristic of a miser, which is defined as person who hoards and spends as little money as possible. It also means pitiably small or inadequate. Its associative noun is miserliness, which means excessive desire to save money; extreme meanness. It is derogatory. So too is cheap.
More importantly, references to my behavior or that of anyone else are inappropriate. The question relates to an appropriate amount to tip. Commenting on another poster's preferences are out of bounds. If you believe it is appropriate to tip $5 or $10 or whatever, you can say so without any comments regarding others.
I was a senior manager. Not an executive! You have no idea of my means. None!
As I noted in my comment, I did not observe what people who got off the train before Miami tipped if anything. Moreover, it is possible that someone gave the car attendant a tip before stepping down to the platform, which should have been clear. I take five to six trips a year on Amtrak sleepers. My observations suggest that tipping is not widespread today.
John WR Don't you think you are over reacting to Schlimm with your "derogatory comment" remark? After all, you do tip Amtrak employees where tips have traditionally been given to the comment could not possibly apply to you. As far as other people who decline to leave a tip for service perhaps they can be entrusted to defend their own behavior.
Schlimm is not empowered to use any term to describe my behavior. Neither are you. The purposes of these forums is to discuss issues without personalizing them. This is especially true for emotionally charged or potentially charged words.
Sam1 John WR Don't you think you are over reacting to Schlimm with your "derogatory comment" remark? After all, you do tip Amtrak employees where tips have traditionally been given to the comment could not possibly apply to you. As far as other people who decline to leave a tip for service perhaps they can be entrusted to defend their own behavior. Schlimm is not empowered to use any term to describe my behavior. Neither are you. The purposes of these forums is to discuss issues without personalizing them. This is especially true for emotionally charged or potentially charged words.
When you ring the bell of describing your personal behavior, you open the way for anyone and everyone to comment about that behavior. Sorry!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
CMStPnP Sam1 Heaps of workers with average compensation packages below those paid to Amtrak's sleeping car attendants don't come in for tips. What justifies tipping a sleeping car attendant when they get a decent wage for doing their job? Thats being unusually cheap, IMHO. I could make a similar argument that Amtrak would establish a "no tips" policy if they felt the way you do. However, I'll turn it around and ask what $55k a year customer facing job demands as much from an employee as sleeping car attendant? Customer service 24 by 7 and the attendant cannot go to bed until the last Sleeping Car passenger does? I am hard pressed to think of anything similar.
Cheap is offensive. According to Webster's New College Dictionary, it means informally miserly; stingy. If you think my tipping or not tipping is too low or too high, you can say so without making a derogatory comment, i.e. cheap, etc.
Amtrak's sleeping car attendants have a competitive compensation package. The total package is important because of the value of the benefits, which are real dollars. For example, to buy health insurance in the open market would cost in the neighborhood of $3,500 to nearly $15,000, depending on the coverage and the number of insures. Just focusing on wages understates the value of the package.
American Airlines cabin attendants, according to several recent stories in the Dallas Morning News, get paid an average of $40,000 to $45,000 per year, although some senior attendants can earn considerably more. This puts them in the same compensation package range as Amtrak's sleeping car attendants. Should airlines passengers tip the attendants when they get off the airplane?
Oh no, say some, I suspect, they don't do nearly as much as an Amtrak sleeping car attendant. Really? Their safety training is much more extensive. Moreover, they have to hustle during flights, especially on relatively short hops, to secure the passengers, take care of safety announcements, tend to mothers with screaming babies, and serve complementary drinks and snacks whilst in flight. They generally do this for as much as 12 hours a day plus preflight and post-flight duties. And at the end of the day they frequently find themselves in a hotel room away from family. Many of them, they are away from home for three or four days at a time.
How about tipping the Greyhound bus driver? He or she checks tickets, helps load bagage, panders to unruly passengers, and operates a heavy vehicle carrying as many as 60 passengers through all kinds of weather and traffic. The risk associated with driving a big bus is greater than making beds on an Amtrak sleeper.
I take three to five trips a year on Amtrak's sleepers. I have never seen a car attendant hustle like they do on the airlines. In fact, other than making up a bed or two near the end of the run, so as to prepare the car for its next run, I don't see much of the attendants.
Tipping train employees is a left over from bygone days when Pullman employees and dinning car waiters were underpaid. Those days are over. So the real question is why do we carry over tipping at all?
BaltACD Sam1 John WR Don't you think you are over reacting to Schlimm with your "derogatory comment" remark? After all, you do tip Amtrak employees where tips have traditionally been given to the comment could not possibly apply to you. As far as other people who decline to leave a tip for service perhaps they can be entrusted to defend their own behavior. Schlimm is not empowered to use any term to describe my behavior. Neither are you. The purposes of these forums is to discuss issues without personalizing them. This is especially true for emotionally charged or potentially charged words. When you ring the bell of describing your personal behavior, you open the way for anyone and everyone to comment about that behavior. Sorry!
What behavior does this refer to? That I gave an attendant on the Silver Meteor a fiver? If this is your reference, it does not entitle anyone to call me cheap or miserly. None!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The remark that several of us commented upon was, in your words, "unless I receive unusually good service, I don't tip at all." I was being quite mild when I said that was at best "frugal" which is not derogatory at all, merely descriptive. If you choose to not tip, that's your business, but don't be surprised at the reaction it elicits and then try to claim no one is allowed to say that. Sorry, but as they say, 'if the shoe fits....'
And BTW, you demurred at my use of the term "executive" in reference to your experience. You used the term "senior management positions." A glance at a Wiki article suggests they are largely equivalent: "Senior management, executive management, or management team is generally a team of individuals at the highest level of organizational management who have the day-to-day responsibilities of managing a company or corporation, they hold specific executive powers conferred onto them with and by authority of the board of directors and/or the shareholders." (taken from http://jom.sagepub.com/content/38/1/45.abstract)
schlimm The remark that several of us commented upon was, in your words, "unless I receive unusually good service, I don't tip at all." I was being quite mild when I said that was at best "frugal" which is not derogatory at all, merely descriptive. If you choose to not tip, that's your business, but don't be surprised at the reaction it elicits and then try to claim no one is allowed to say that. Sorry, but as they say, 'if the shoe fits....' And BTW, you demurred at my use of the term "executive" in reference to your experience. You used the term "senior management positions." A glance at a Wiki article suggests they are largely equivalent: "Senior management, executive management, or management team is generally a team of individuals at the highest level of organizational management who have the day-to-day responsibilities of managing a company or corporation, they hold specific executive powers conferred onto them with and by authority of the board of directors and/or the shareholders." (taken from http://jom.sagepub.com/content/38/1/45.abstract)
Your left out your term miserly. You also left out my view that you have no call to comment on my behaviors or those of anyone else. If you think a larger or smaller tip is appropriate, say so, but there is no need to call the person frugal, miserly or use any other potentially inflammatory term.
In my company a senior manager is not part of the executive team. A Wiki definition applied to my former employer, without knowing anything about the organization, is incorrect.
People who don't work in Fortune 500 corporations, for example, don't know anything about how they function. By the same token people who work in Fortune 500 corporations don't know how universities, hospitals, small businesses, government agencies, etc. work. When I have referenced my experience, it is only to show that I know a bit about large businesses. I usually did so or will do so when I hear such things as business people care about nothing but profits; all businesses are subsidized, etc. Without know the reference point of the commentator, it is impossible to know if they have any idea of what they are talking about unless they commit one of the more glaring logical fallacies.
Sam1You also left out my view that you have no call to comment on my behaviors or those of anyone else.
Maybe in your former world that isn't OK, but in this one we do have rights of free speech. Not tipping is your choice, but most folks (excluding teenagers) would regard that behavior as inappropriate in general and quite cheap specifically. But then again, you are always right, so I will defer to your wisdom.
schlimm Sam1You also left out my view that you have no call to comment on my behaviors or those of anyone else. Maybe in your former world that isn't OK, but in this one we do have rights of free speech. Not tipping is your choice, but most folks (excluding teenagers) would regard that behavior as inappropriate in general and quite cheap specifically. But then again, you are always right, so I will defer to your wisdom.
You are entitled to free speech. And your are entitled to any opinion you want to express. But you are not entitled to your own facts, which is a line that I stole from the Vice President of the United States. The fact of the matter is you don't have a clue about the Fortune 250 corporation that I worked for. You don't know how it was organized, how it functioned, and what role(s) that I played in it.
How do you know what most folks would conclude regarding cheap? How do you know what teenagers think or don't think. Have you taken a statistically valid survey of their views? If so I would be keen to learn of the methodology. Have you restricted your survey to Amtrak passengers or have you included airline, bus, etc. passengers? Please, no references to blogs or other secondary data sources. Gotta be the primary stuff.
Most of the comments including yours are in reference to what I said about not tipping. To assume that Schlimm was not making a reference to me is over the top.
Sam1How do you know what most folks would conclude regarding cheap? How do you know what teenagers think or don't think. Have you taken a statistically valid survey of their views? If so I would be keen to learn of the methodology. Have you restricted your survey to Amtrak passengers or have you included airline, bus, etc. passengers? Please, no references to blogs or other secondary data sources. Gotta be the primary stuff.
Do you have any data to support what you are saying to the contrary?
And BTW, perhaps you need to recognize what sarcasm is.
sam1: Here are several guides to tipping that you might find useful in your travels:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40758967/ns/travel-business_travel/t/tipping-etiquette-guide-travelers/#.UG9AoYamUtc
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g191-s606/United-States:Tipping.And.Etiquette.html
"Tips should only go to people who are helpful. If they don't help you, don't tip them."
"For bad or unacceptable service it is customary to tip as low as 10%. If service is bad enough to deserve only 10%, it is a good idea to let the manager know. Also, placing 2 pennies side by side on top of bills neatly placed on the table lets the server know that it is intentionally low because of bad service. If the server in some way offended you so that you do not wish to leave any tip at all, still leave the 2 pennies, so that they understand that you did not just forget to tip."
"Hotel housekeeping/maid service: $2-3 per night up to $5, more in high-end hotels. Also more if there are more than 3 people in a room or suite. Leave the tip on your pillow or in a similar obvious place with a note that says thank you. Leave the tip each day when you leave the room, rather than at the end of your stay, because your room might get cleaned by different people each day, depending on staff schedules."
On a cruise ship, which is at least somewhat analogous to a sleeping car: "Linda Coffman of the Cruise Diva website explains your stateroom host usually receives $3 to $3.50 per day. These amounts are per person for each passenger in your stateroom."
According to CNN, http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-24/travel/hotel.housekeeping.tipping_1_housekeeping-manager-hotel-guests-emily-post-institute?_s=PM:TRAVELonly about 30 percent of hotel guests leave tips for the maid or housekeeping people.
Given that we don't live in the age of Lucius Beebe where we had a more stratified social structure, I imagine that similar percentages apply to Amtrak sleeping cars.
So, go ahead and criticize people who don't tip on the train. I think that you are not only criticizing Sam1, you are criticizing most of the train-riding public as not living up to "our standards" of how passengers should comport themselves on Amtrak.
The other thing I may add to this is that someone started this thread asking "How much do you tip on Amtrak", others offered their opinions of the tip amount, and Sam1 offered yet another opinion of "I don't tip unless I get exemplary service", to which "the old hands" piled on with words of criticism for someone who doesn't tip according to their standards.
Yeah, yeah, Sam1 is someone who invites criticism with the sharp-pencil routine on Amtrak finances, but Sam1 is someone who rides Amtrak, especially long-distance sleeper, a lot. It would choke some people around here with what would be stuck in the throat to offer perhaps a gentler counterpoint along the line of, "that's one traveller's perspective, but I suggest leaving more of a tip more often and here is why . . ."
I'm also saying that the "my way or the highway" (railway?) viewpoint regarding suggested standards of passenger conduct may not serve the broader interests of passenger train advocacy, of getting the most people to ride more trains more often and support increased train service.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Last time this tipping discussion was held around here, one participant weighed in that "the standard practice" on tipping for meals was to tip 20% "rounded up to the nearest dollar."
And some sharp words were offered for anyone still tipping at 15%.
For employees of the State of Wisconsin travelling on business, rules for the reimbursement of travel expense are found here at http://oser.state.wi.us/docview.asp?docid=5038
The guide books and etiquitte books may say one thing, but the State of Wisconsin has some strict rules that meal or taxi tips in excess of 15% are not considered a legitimate business travel expense, and the rules have no mention of tips for hotel housekeeping and maid service, meaning, you are on your own to pay them if you choose.
Is the State of Wisconsin "cheap." You betcha! (as we say north of U.S. 10). Generally, we have to travel the cheapest way possible, which means advanced purchase, Saturday stays away from family. Business class? Make me laugh! Amtrak? Who is going to cover your classroom sections?
The discussion was not about the Amtrak-riding public in general, but sleeper users in particular, which are a much smaller number of riders. Everyone is free to do as he or she wishes; you don't have to tip even a buck in a restaurant if you don't wish to, but you'd best be prepared at a minimum for some dirty looks if you don't. If you can afford to pony up hundreds of dollars for sleeper on Amtrak, one wouldn't think a $5-10 per night tip is not going to break anyone's budget.
Paul: Interesting about UW specificity. Northwestern University merely says reimbursement is allowable for "reasonable" tips. And n.b. The State of Wisconsin does allow for tips of hotel maids, etc.:
7.03 Hotel Gratuities and Porterage (1) Necessary gratuities to hotel employees are reimbursable, up to $2.00 on the day of arrival, $2.00 on the day of departure and $2.00 per each night of stay.
I did not make any statement about what most folks do, other than some observations from my travel on Amtrak. To prove a negative is impossible. You consistently try to turn a statement when you are called out on it. Responding to a question with a question is not much of an answer.
Many if not most large organizations, i.e. businesses, universities, government agencies, have expense report guidelines. They may include guidelines for tipping, although none of the organizations that I worked for or exchanged practice information with had them. Most of our guidelines were stated normal and customary practices should be followed, i.e. the venue, etc. They did not tell use who to tip or how much.
What they do in hotels, cruise ships, etc. is irrelevant to what should be done on an Amtrak sleeper. As per the BLS, hotel maids, for example, have a median annual income of $19,390 per year. Most of them don't have health insurance or retirement benefits. Accordingly, their burden, which the BLS does not show, probably is less than 20 per cent per year, thereby brining their annual compensation package to approximately $23,268, which is considerably below the compensation package for an Amtrak sleeping car attendant. The BLS has data re: benefits, but I don't have the time to dig it out. Comparing hotel maids and sleeping car attendants does not strike me as an apples to apples comparison.
I am not sure about cruise ship employees, since the BLS does not show their compensation packages. In some instances, at least based on what I have read, cruise ships embed a gratuity in the cost of the cruise.
When I raise a question, i.e. why should we tip Amtrak's sleeping car attendants when we don't tip airline cabin attendants or Greyhound bus drivers, the response is silence. Instead what I get is a recitation of state and university policies that don't begin to address the question.
My major push back on many of the comments engendered by this topic is the reference to my practice as cheap, miserly, etc. No one posting to these forums has earned the right to comment on my behavior.
"Sarcasm is the use of irony to mock or convey contempt: his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment." Where did this come in to play? Pretty hard to judge voice tone through the written media.
It isn't a law as to what one tips. It is simply a matter of the practices of etiquette in a given culture.
I think you will find sarcasm is a rhetorical device used in written and sometimes spoken language: "mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult ." It does not ordinarily require voice tone. In any case, I was referring to another's post about your rationale for tipping or not.
The notion that "no one posting on these forums has earned the right to comment on my [sam1's] behaviors" confirms henry6's last comment directed your way.
schlimm It isn't a law as to what one tips. It is simply a matter of the practices of etiquette in a given culture. I think you will find sarcasm is a rhetorical device used in written and sometimes spoken language: "mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult ." It does not ordinarily require voice tone. In any case, I was referring to another's post about your rationale for tipping or not. The notion that "no one posting on these forums has earned the right to comment on my [sam1's] behaviors" confirms henry6's last comment directed your way.
Really? Whose post were you referring to? What specifically did they say? It is posted under my post, so I am curious.
So lets see if I have this straight. Its OK for Henry6 to make comments like all businesses are subsidized; business leaders only care about profits; Texas oil men (women) are thugs etc., without any evidence, but when I push back that is inappropriate? Or you imply that my preference for free markets as opposed to government run commercial activities is ideological, but when I counter by saying that a preference for government solutions is equally ideological, that is inappropriate? Or when I outline why Fred Frailey's statement regarding amortization of capital is bad accounting, it is verbose, presumably, without any hard data to counter it.
We've beat this topic to death. I am out of here for now. But I be back on other topics with supported counterpoints when I believe someone is making an unsupported comment. By the same token I will support a comment with addition data if the original statement is supported properly.
Paul Milenkovic Last time this tipping discussion was held around here, one participant weighed in that "the standard practice" on tipping for meals was to tip 20% "rounded up to the nearest dollar." And some sharp words were offered for anyone still tipping at 15%. For employees of the State of Wisconsin travelling on business, rules for the reimbursement of travel expense are found here at http://oser.state.wi.us/docview.asp?docid=5038 The guide books and etiquitte books may say one thing, but the State of Wisconsin has some strict rules that meal or taxi tips in excess of 15% are not considered a legitimate business travel expense, and the rules have no mention of tips for hotel housekeeping and maid service, meaning, you are on your own to pay them if you choose. Is the State of Wisconsin "cheap." You betcha! (as we say north of U.S. 10). Generally, we have to travel the cheapest way possible, which means advanced purchase, Saturday stays away from family. Business class? Make me laugh! Amtrak? Who is going to cover your classroom sections?
Saying the State of Wisconsin cheap is one thing; calling a forum participant cheap is another. Our policy states, for example, that employees should fly coach class within the United States and may use business class for overseas flights lasting more than four hours.
Since I was the only employee to use Amtrak out of Dallas, they did not have a policy regarding train travel, although they scratched their collective heads when I booked a trip. I booked a sleeper if traveling from Dallas to Chicago; that was the only overnight trip that I took on Amtrak whilst I was working. The company reimbursed me for the coach fare and the fair market value of the meals; I picked up the tab for the room.
Cheap did not appear anywhere in the corporate policy manual.
schlimm sam1: Here are several guides to tipping that you might find useful in your travels: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40758967/ns/travel-business_travel/t/tipping-etiquette-guide-travelers/#.UG9AoYamUtc http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g191-s606/United-States:Tipping.And.Etiquette.html "Tips should only go to people who are helpful. If they don't help you, don't tip them." "For bad or unacceptable service it is customary to tip as low as 10%. If service is bad enough to deserve only 10%, it is a good idea to let the manager know. Also, placing 2 pennies side by side on top of bills neatly placed on the table lets the server know that it is intentionally low because of bad service. If the server in some way offended you so that you do not wish to leave any tip at all, still leave the 2 pennies, so that they understand that you did not just forget to tip." "Hotel housekeeping/maid service: $2-3 per night up to $5, more in high-end hotels. Also more if there are more than 3 people in a room or suite. Leave the tip on your pillow or in a similar obvious place with a note that says thank you. Leave the tip each day when you leave the room, rather than at the end of your stay, because your room might get cleaned by different people each day, depending on staff schedules." On a cruise ship, which is at least somewhat analogous to a sleeping car: "Linda Coffman of the Cruise Diva website explains your stateroom host usually receives $3 to $3.50 per day. These amounts are per person for each passenger in your stateroom."
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