http://www.fra.dot.gov/roa/press_releases/fp_FRA%2015-12.shtml
the newswire post and the above release is very bare on details. Here is what can be determined so far.by using release and using the fleet strategy plan version 2 dated Feb 2011. a new fleet plan was supposed to be released this FEB but since this request for proposals (RFP) just came out maybe a version 3 of fleet strategy plan will be forth coming soon ??
If someone can access the RFP and post it much speculation can be avoided !
The contract is listed to be awarded the fall of 2012 which is 2-1/2 years after the single level award was posted on July 23, 2010. Deliveries will start in 2015 a year past the 2014 date listed in the fleet strategy plan. Announcement only lists approximately 130 cars at cost of $551M. ( That leaves a lot of lee way ). Comparsion to the new Viewliners is almost meanless since viewliners are diners, sleepers,a nd baggage cars.. Interchangeable parts between the 2 orders needs clarifying. The contract may be for a fixed money amount and the number of cars may be variable ?? No statement of spare parts ?? If 130 (?) cars at $551M cost would be $4.23M / car or $47K per seat if in corridor configuration of 90 seats??.
Delivery schedule is not listed but if 130 cars in 2 years 65 per year would be almost twice the 35 per year listed in fleet plan ?? So until more information available only speculation is possible.
This is a positive move. I ride the Surfliner cars 5-6 times per year and they're a big improvement over Amfleet and Horizon cars. The bilevel cars will be a nice upgrade for midwest rail service.
Now if Amtrak could get the wifi to work regularly!
To completely cover the midwest planned trains as of today it would take approximately 108 new bi-levels with each train averaging 5 cars and 20% spares. That will leave at least 22 cars to be added to the various California trains. I believe that even more than that number is planned for CA under this order ?? Again we need to see the RFP to get a real idea ??
"The Buy America provision of the RFP requires that all components of the new bi-level cars are built by American workers: with American hands, and with American-produced steel, iron and manufactured goods. The federal government’s investment in passenger rail means more jobs for American workers and domestic companies."
Unless overseas suppliers with plants in the U.S. are allowed to submit bids, the buy America provision practically guarantees that the cost of the cars will be more than if competitors from around the world are allowed to bid on the contract. Ironically, GE, Boeing or Caterpillar, as well as their political supporters, would scream bloody murder if they were shut out of a foreign market for political reasons.
Boeing sells airplanes to airlines around the world. Frequently its overseas sales gross more than its domestic sales. If China, which is developing a commercial jetliner that will compete with the Boeing 737, decreed that Boeing could not sell airplanes in China unless they were built there or not at all because it is not a Chinese company, Washington State politicians would go through the roof. And rightly so!
Anyone know whether overseas suppliers will be permitted to bid for the contract if they build the cars in the United States?
blue streak 1 To completely cover the midwest planned trains as of today it would take approximately 108 new bi-levels with each train averaging 5 cars and 20% spares. That will leave at least 22 cars to be added to the various California trains. I believe that even more than that number is planned for CA under this order ?? Again we need to see the RFP to get a real idea ??
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20120420/FREE/120429982/federal-plan-adds-bi-level-passenger-cars-to-michigan-amtrak-lines
An article stating 25 cars for michigan lines. One statement is that cars are to be dedicated to just Michigan trains and that has never been the plan. Much more flexibility in using them thruout the midwest region.
blue streak 1 An article stating 25 cars for michigan lines. One statement is that cars are to be dedicated to just Michigan trains and that has never been the plan. Much more flexibility in using them thruout the midwest region.
Perhaps since part of the line is already 110 mph, and they plan to expand that almost the rest of the way to Detroit, maybe they want to keep those card dedicated to the higher speed service. The trains that run that route already have some experimental PTC equipment on them.
Also 2 of the Michigan routes are state supported.
An interesting aside is that this RFP is not appearing on the Amtrak web site yet. Since the FRA/ DOT will be leasing these cars to Amtrak / states they may not show up on Amtrak until they are actually in service ??.
A Request For Proposals is not an order for equipment. The order may be placed some time after the proposals are received.
You don't have to see the RFP. The numbers and fund amounts are laid out in the HSIPR applications and grant awards. The 4 Midwest states are to get 88 cars, California 42. The Midwest cars are for IL, MI, MO, IN, and Iowa if it participates in the extension from Moline IL to Iowa City. WI is not included The total funding amount is based a total loaded price of $4.5 million per car. If the winning bid comes in lower (including spare parts, training, etc), they may get a few more cars in the order.
I would not be surprised if CA has options on the RFP to order more cars to meet their needs for growing ridership on their 3 main corridors and the long planned Coast Daylight train. IL should have options for additional units in the RFP as well as the lead Midwest state on the order.
Sam1 Unless overseas suppliers with plants in the U.S. are allowed to submit bids, the buy America provision practically guarantees that the cost of the cars will be more than if competitors from around the world are allowed to bid on the contract. Ironically, GE, Boeing or Caterpillar, as well as their political supporters, would scream bloody murder if they were shut out of a foreign market for political reasons. ...Anyone know whether overseas suppliers will be permitted to bid for the contract if they build the cars in the United States?
...Anyone know whether overseas suppliers will be permitted to bid for the contract if they build the cars in the United States?
Of course, overseas or foreign owned companies will be allowed to bid on the contract. The provision does not say anything about who nominally owns the companies, only that the cars will be built in the US using American produced steel and parts. The primary bidders will be companies with established manufacturing and assembly plants in the US who have extensive experience in working under the Buy American constraints. Which nominally "American" owned company has the capability to bid on this RFP?
Alan F Sam1: Unless overseas suppliers with plants in the U.S. are allowed to submit bids, the buy America provision practically guarantees that the cost of the cars will be more than if competitors from around the world are allowed to bid on the contract. Ironically, GE, Boeing or Caterpillar, as well as their political supporters, would scream bloody murder if they were shut out of a foreign market for political reasons. ...Anyone know whether overseas suppliers will be permitted to bid for the contract if they build the cars in the United States? Of course, overseas or foreign owned companies will be allowed to bid on the contract. The provision does not say anything about who nominally owns the companies, only that the cars will be built in the US using American produced steel and parts. The primary bidders will be companies with established manufacturing and assembly plants in the US who have extensive experience in working under the Buy American constraints. Which nominally "American" owned company has the capability to bid on this RFP?
Sam1: Unless overseas suppliers with plants in the U.S. are allowed to submit bids, the buy America provision practically guarantees that the cost of the cars will be more than if competitors from around the world are allowed to bid on the contract. Ironically, GE, Boeing or Caterpillar, as well as their political supporters, would scream bloody murder if they were shut out of a foreign market for political reasons. ...Anyone know whether overseas suppliers will be permitted to bid for the contract if they build the cars in the United States?
I don't have an issue with your perspective re: overseas suppliers building the cars in the U.S. Nevertheless, if they have to use steel, as well as other materials manufactured in the U.S., as opposed to being allow to import some of the materials irrespective of national boundaries, the cost of the cars could be appreciably higher than otherwise would be the case.
A significant percentage of the parts and assemblies used in the Boeing 787 were manufactured overseas or assembled overseas, i.e. Japan, Italy, etc., because Boeing got a better deal. Or at least that was the game plan! In the end the supply chain was too broad; Boeing lost control of it; and thereby incurred a series of heart stopping problems. However, it is a mistake, albeit not a political one, to restrict the manufacture of the components and the assembly of the cars to plants and workers located only in the United States.
As an aside, the alloy of stainless steel used for passenger railcars is 301L. There is only one mill in the United States which can manufacture it and they could not justify the small run for the Viewliner order. Ergo, the stainless steel for the Viewliner II's came from Japan. If memory serves the shells for one or both of the "California Car" runs were shotwelded overseas (Brazil?) and imported for completion.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
as an aside the FRA issued earlier a RFP for planing of procurement, maqintenance, ownership, interagency useage of the bi-level order. This RFP closed about Apr 10th.
http://www.transportation.org/sites/aashto/docs/PRIIA%20Section%20305%20NGEC%20RFP%20FINAL%20040612.pdf
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