In the last few weeks, I've noticed the southbound long-distance trains out of DC have been running, for lack of a better term, backwards. At first it was only the northbounds, but now the southbound are doing it too. And it was only a few, but now everything is configured like this:
power-coach-coach-coach-coach-food-sleeper-sleeper-baggage
Its quite curious looking and even has drawn notice from people that normally wouldn't even bat an eye at it. Turns out regular people know that baggage is supposed to go after the power. A few have asked me if I knew why and I'm coming up blank.
Has anyone seen or heard anything about this? At first it was only a handful of the trains, which made me wonder if something at a remote location like Savannah was preventing turning the trains.
Except for the location of the baggage car, the consist isn't really backwards, the coaches are still ahead of the diner.
The Crescent started running "backward" about three weeks ago.
This occurred last year, too. One reason floating around the rumorsphere was it was to get the sleepers away from the locomotive horn noise. But, it only lasted a couple months before they flopped back to "normal" sleepers forward.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Now wait-a-minute!
I always thought that the "traditional" passenger consist put the locomotive up front (of course), followed by the baggage and other "head end" cars (at the head end of the train!), followed by the coaches, so the coach passengers could get exercise walking the length of the platform in Chicago when boarding and also the full railfan experience of noting what was in the consist, after that the dining car/lounge set, with the sleepers bringing up the rear, maybe with a sleeper/observation car at the tail end?
Did I get something mixed up, here?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
The Crescent is always:
P42
baggage
Viewliner sleeper
ancient, but nicely modernized diner
Amfleet II lounge
Amfleet II coach
(and sometimes one more Amfleet II coach)
Except when its exactly opposite (except for the power), as it has been for the past few weeks.
And they need two 4000 HP locomotives with 8-9 trailing cars?
Paul Milenkovic And they need two 4000 HP locomotives with 8-9 trailing cars?
Not too surprising when you consider that Southern routinely used 4 E8A's on the "Southern Crescent" in the early Amtrak era.
Given the comments to date on this issue, it appears that the Texas Eagle does not know which way it is going. Based on my observations at Taylor and Temple, when the train is carrying a through sleeper and coach from Chicago to LAX and vice versa, the coach and sleeper are at the rear of the train to facilitate their transfer to Number 1 or from Number 2 at San Antonio. The transition sleeper, which occasionally books revenue passengers is usually at the front of the train.
On Number 1 and Number 2 the LAX/NO sleeper is usually behind the baggage car whilst the Eagle through cars are at the back of the train.
As a retired CPA I can attest to the importance of balance. Looks like we have it with the Eagle and Sunset Limited.
CSSHEGEWISCH Paul Milenkovic: And they need two 4000 HP locomotives with 8-9 trailing cars? Not too surprising when you consider that Southern routinely used 4 E8A's on the "Southern Crescent" in the early Amtrak era.
Paul Milenkovic: And they need two 4000 HP locomotives with 8-9 trailing cars?
That train was typically a lot longer, too.... at least a dozen cars.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=56470
There are 14-15 in this picture.
You need more 44 seat coaches and 10-6 sleepers than Viewliners and Amfleet II to hold the same number of passengers.
But, it is interesting how the population of the south has exploded in the past 30 years but the passenger count on the Crescent has not budged.
Uh, maybe. For schedule keeping. The route is up and down with lots of curves. Keeping speed on the upgrade and getting back up to speed after the curves might require pretty high HP/ton.
You could get over the route with one engine, but you might need to stretch the schedule some.
If you were further to the east along the coast, you could get by with one....
Nothing worse than a passenger train that can only move at drag tonnage freight speed.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDNothing worse than a passenger train that can only move at drag tonnage freight speed.
It means I have seen drag freights powered at .5 HP/ton run down passenger trains that should have run away from them. Ask the passenger train what is wrong and get the response 'nothing'.
Paul Milenkovic BaltACD: Nothing worse than a passenger train that can only move at drag tonnage freight speed. And what is that supposed to mean? That 8 HP per trailing ton (1 Genesis unit pulling those 9 Amfleet/Viewliner/Heritage Baggage cars) is powered at the level of a drag freight?
BaltACD: Nothing worse than a passenger train that can only move at drag tonnage freight speed.
And what is that supposed to mean? That 8 HP per trailing ton (1 Genesis unit pulling those 9 Amfleet/Viewliner/Heritage Baggage cars) is powered at the level of a drag freight?
I would think it refers to the freight trains that have to be followed by a passenger train in order for the freight railroad to make the point that passengers don't like riding slow passenger trains and the passenger trains should be taken off their freight railroad.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
4 HP per ton will allow you to run 80 mph with a passenger train up and down some gentle grades, no sweat.
BaltACD It means I have seen drag freights powered at .5 HP/ton run down passenger trains that should have run away from them. Ask the passenger train what is wrong and get the response 'nothing'. Paul Milenkovic: BaltACD: Nothing worse than a passenger train that can only move at drag tonnage freight speed. And what is that supposed to mean? That 8 HP per trailing ton (1 Genesis unit pulling those 9 Amfleet/Viewliner/Heritage Baggage cars) is powered at the level of a drag freight?
Paul Milenkovic: BaltACD: Nothing worse than a passenger train that can only move at drag tonnage freight speed. And what is that supposed to mean? That 8 HP per trailing ton (1 Genesis unit pulling those 9 Amfleet/Viewliner/Heritage Baggage cars) is powered at the level of a drag freight?
A frt train at .5 HP/ton would have a hard time making 40mph on the level.
Out west, whenever I have ridden the Sunset, the sleepers were at the rear. However, on the recent northbound Coast Starlight reroute (2/4/12) the sleepers were near the head end.
What do they normally do at the end points - do they turn /reconfigure the consists, or do they now just leave the cars in the same sequence, and move the locomotive(s) from one end to the other depending on the direction of travel?
I noticed the same thing a month ago while watching train 91 stop in Hamlet NC. I think I figured it out--When the sleepers were at the front, the train would stop once to do crew change and sleeper embark/disembarkation, then pull up to service the coach passengers. Now with the coaches up front, they only stop once, unless they have sleeper traffic, which is rare. Whether this theory holds water at non crew change stops, I don't know. Gee, I wonder, how many crew changes does 91 make between DC and Orlando.
Johnny
Deggesty CSSHEGEWISCH: Paul Milenkovic: And they need two 4000 HP locomotives with 8-9 trailing cars? Not too surprising when you consider that Southern routinely used 4 E8A's on the "Southern Crescent" in the early Amtrak era. Consider how old these engines were in 1971. This must have been above Atlanta, for I do not recall seeing more than two units on the train when I saw it in Tusacaloosa (many times).
CSSHEGEWISCH: Paul Milenkovic: And they need two 4000 HP locomotives with 8-9 trailing cars? Not too surprising when you consider that Southern routinely used 4 E8A's on the "Southern Crescent" in the early Amtrak era.
If I remember correctly, the 'Amtrak Incentive Agreement' with one significant carrier that operates Amtrak trains - If the Amtrak Train, operated with 1 unit and more than 6 cars, a additional 15 minutes was allowed for 'On Time' performance at each checkpoint. The normal allowance was 10 minutes; so when a single engine train was operated with 7 or more cars, the allowance would become 25 minutes. If the train's route included more that one checkpoint, the additional 15 minutes would be added to each successive checkpoint.
Back here in my country, some yars ago, in a line that has now been electrified, I rode a 12 car train (50 tons per car = 600 metric tons) hauled by an MLW/Alco engine having 2185 HP thru a long stretch of 2 % grade (more ore less 10 miles long). Even with a 3,64 HP per ton (didn't includ the loco, that's some extra 90 tons and only 3,17 HP per ton) the loco just barked at heavens as only an Alco can do (with a beautifull raucuous gruff) and went by the grade at 20 mph. In the level part of the trip it was more or less ok, maybe taking some extra 30 seconds to 1 minute to reach track speed. In the end, even with some meagre HP/Ton one can still get there
Mario_v Back here in my country, some yars ago, in a line that has now been electrified, I rode a 12 car train (50 tons per car = 600 metric tons) hauled by an MLW/Alco engine having 2185 HP thru a long stretch of 2 % grade (more ore less 10 miles long). Even with a 3,64 HP per ton (didn't includ the loco, that's some extra 90 tons and only 3,17 HP per ton) the loco just barked at heavens as only an Alco can do (with a beautifull raucuous gruff) and went by the grade at 20 mph. In the level part of the trip it was more or less ok, maybe taking some extra 30 seconds to 1 minute to reach track speed. In the end, even with some meagre HP/Ton one can still get there
Those extra 1/2 minutes and minutes getting the train back up to track speed from a speed restriction (for whatever reason) is where a relatively 'underpowered' passenger train loses time to it's schedule - yes, it has enough power to get to the final terminal; it just doesn't have enough power to maintain it's schedule.
My experience on the California Zephyr (2001-2010) has been that the sleepers are always up front-both east and westbound. I rode the Desert Wind a few times in the 90's bit I don't recall that configuration...
As for power/load, the CZ operated between Chicago and Denver with 3 locomotives for, usually, up to 9 cars (baggage, 3 sleepers-including crew dorm, diner, lounge and 3 coaches). From Denver west-with all the mountains to deal with-only two locomotives are used. I assume that the curvature between Denver & Roseville and Martinez & Oakland precludes higher speeds. Still, even with only 2, the CZ manages the relatively flat.fast track between Sacramento & Martinez just fine.
Kevin C. Smith As for power/load, the CZ operated between Chicago and Denver with 3 locomotives for, usually, up to 9 cars (baggage, 3 sleepers-including crew dorm, diner, lounge and 3 coaches). From Denver west-with all the mountains to deal with-only two locomotives are used. I assume that the curvature between Denver & Roseville and Martinez & Oakland precludes higher speeds.
As for power/load, the CZ operated between Chicago and Denver with 3 locomotives for, usually, up to 9 cars (baggage, 3 sleepers-including crew dorm, diner, lounge and 3 coaches). From Denver west-with all the mountains to deal with-only two locomotives are used. I assume that the curvature between Denver & Roseville and Martinez & Oakland precludes higher speeds.
To me, it is very counter-intuitive that the mountain districts require less horsepower than the plains due to the speed restriction imposed by the curves.
Does some passenger equipment get dropped westbound at Denver and picked up on the return?
daveklepper Does some passenger equipment get dropped westbound at Denver and picked up on the return?
I have ridden the CZ three times in the last two years: twice from Emeryville to Denver and once from Denver to Emeryville. The train had two locomotives, a baggage car, a transition sleeper, two revenue sleepers, a dinning car, a lounge car, and three coaches. No locomotives or cars were dropped at Denver or picked-up there.
I rode the CZ in February, April and May. I don't know whether Amtrak adds power and cars during the summer months, which is the height of the vacation season.
Just the other day, I noticed they've "turned back around" and are running with the sleepers first again.
oltmannd- I too see the Crescent and I agree that the only explanation for the back and forth behavior is the tradeoff between coupler slack and horn noise.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.