I see where on Amtrak the conductor and engineers do not change at the same location , at least on #58 and #59. the conductors go about 100 miles further than engineers. Is there a reason for the overlap? Is this the norm for freights also?
That was very common on most railroads for as long as I can rembember....each consductor, brakeman, trainman, fireman and engineer often had their own "schedules" and did not always work the same consecutive trains. On the other hand there are and were many jobs where the whole crew turned the same. In commuter territories often ticket collectors or trainmen did not do a whole run but turned back earlier because of fewer riders after a certain point. The only thing normal about railroading is that nothing is normal.
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I do not know how much change there has been (except for longer runs now) in the philosophy of how far/long a crew ran from the days of a basic day of 100 miles for all engine crews and freight train crews, and 150 miles for passenger train crews.
In your area (Canton/Gwin-McComb-New Orleans) all engine crews and freight train crews changed in McComb, and passenger train crews ran through McComb in one direction and changed in McComb in the other direction. Thus, in 24 hours, a passenger train crew would run about 400 miles and then have 24 hours in McComb. I do not know why, but I never asked for the details of the passenger engine crews' time off, but I do not doubt that they also were off for 24 hours, having received a day's pay for the 100 miles that they worked. All freight crews preferred running McComb-Gwin rather than McComb, since 130 miles paid more than 100 miles did.
Incidentally, except for the City, whose conductor and brakemen changed northbound, the train crews changed southbound. This was in the days of four passenger trains each way every day.
Johnny
I should clarify somewhat. Each union negotiated seperately with the railroads. So certain interchange points were chosen or terminals or division points, or end points of branches or junction points as starting/ending points of crew days/runs. Engines may have come several miles from a terminal or roundhouse or even from a different direction. Crew points changed from time to time as did division points and trainmasters and division superintendants. For every action there is a reaction and the railroad action was very reactionary when it came to operations. As mergers and abandonments coincided, rosters were integrated or set side by side or had some other minute change or discrepency. A guy could have been working for railroad 1 at point A and had his rights changed when the road merged with railroad 4 and his division point or even line was abandoned. His roster may have remained intact and his home terminal, though no longer in service, still existed on paper while he worked from points D to Q on railroad 4 while retainig all rights. Then AMtrak came along and...you get it, it is all very complicated and confusing. But it can be very interesting to follow the contracts, conditons, consolidations, etc. Someone has had to for legal as well as operating purposes on most meger made railroads of today. There are some fun stories, illogical as well as logical conculsions and changes or non changes. Some rosters died a natural death as after the mergers and acquisitons often no new names were added thus they were eliminated. Then there were mergers with rosters of two once competing roads being merged or worked so that daily assignments were made with alternating road assignements...this was followed by new comers who worked for neither of the merged roads but for the succssor road on a new roster...etc. Its fun to track some of this stuff down for one who might really be interested.
Yes, Henry, each railroad negotiated its contract with the unions, but the basic days remained the same.
One particular instance in which there was an adjustment in what the train crew was able to claim was the NC&StL and union agreement for the Nashville-Chattanooga run, which was 151.5 miles: the train crews were paid for only 150 miles. A conductor told me, going into Nashville from Atlanta, not in a griping way, that that was all he was paid, whereas the Chattanooga-Atlanta crews were paid for 150 miles, even though it was only 133.7 miles between the two cities.
The actual distance worked depended upon how far apart the crew change points were, which was seldom exactly, or even clsoe to, 100 or 150 miles.
I did not enquire as to the engine crew points when riding Amtrak's City of New Orleans, but the train crews change at Greenwood, Miss., and Carbondale, Ill.
I erred in statng that Gwin-McComb is 130 miles; it is 148 miles.
Basic milage day was set at about 100 then 125 and finally 150 as 8 hour days (maybe 12 early on). It was how long it was expected for a crew to go from starting terminal to ending terminal. As track, signals, and equipment got bigger and better the "working day" milage got longer and matched other non railroad jobs at 8 hours. However....in commuter services then and now, in order for someone to get his 150 miles per day or 8 hours often means "split days" in which one may start at say 5:30AM do an 80 mile round trip (maybe up to 4 hours) then have three to 10 hours off and do the remainder of the 8 hours or 70 miles. Sometimes one way is 90 miles on a commuter run and so there could be almost a 10 hour layover before returning; sometimes there is a quick turn around. Some assignemtns go for a lot more than 150 miles in a 12 hour day and so each day is equal to two days pay thus the job is boarded every other day. And remember, too, there is a difference in on/off duty times. Engine crews often are (were) 30 minutes before and after while train crews had only 15 minutes before and after. Of course there were rosters at various terminals with "home" crews but other crews worked in and out; there were freight and passenger rosters; there were extra boards sometimes mixed freight and passenger, sometimes totally seperate; there were commuter rosters and non commuter rosters...each railroad, each terminal, each craft had their own contracts which were inherited by the next merger, changed or not, and inherited with yet the next merger, etc. Labor contracts and mergers are a hodgepodge of rules, regulations, contract clauses, seniority districts, operating districts, merged and unmerged rosters, etc. And no two railroads and unions contracts seemed to be exactly alike so that they fit together like hand and glove.
I've told this story before...and I will only vouch for it as a story,not neccessarily factual. The DL&W had a train out of Washington, NJ about 6:30 each morning arriving in Hoboken about 8:30. The engine, crew at least, was said to remove their coveralls, grab a ferry to Barclay St. and work the stockmarket until 4 PM and return to Hoboken. There they donned thier overalls, climbed aboard their train for a 5:30 departure to arrive back home in Washington about 7:30. Their assignement had that duty cycle that allowed a full day on Wall St. while getting a full day's pay as engineer and fireman! As I said, I'm not sure whether the train crew could do it or not, and it is a story that was told to me often in the '50s.
North bound conductor out of New Orleans change at Greenwood and Dyersburg (I think) and the engineers change at Jackson and Memphis My friend , Brings #59 from memphis int eh Morning and if he's not running really late take #58 back in the evening.
It may be that the conductors' division point has been moved to Dyersburg, but in the spring of 2008 as we were waiting for #58 to come into Greenwood, I asked the relieving conductor how far he went, and he told that he went to Carbondale.
henry6 Basic milage day was set at about 100 then 125 and finally 150 as 8 hour days (maybe 12 early on). It was how long it was expected for a crew to go from starting terminal to ending terminal. As track, signals, and equipment got bigger and better the "working day" milage got longer and matched other non railroad jobs at 8 hours. However....in commuter services then and now, in order for someone to get his 150 miles per day or 8 hours often means "split days" in which one may start at say 5:30AM do an 80 mile round trip (maybe up to 4 hours) then have three to 10 hours off and do the remainder of the 8 hours or 70 miles. Sometimes one way is 90 miles on a commuter run and so there could be almost a 10 hour layover before returning; sometimes there is a quick turn around. Some assignemtns go for a lot more than 150 miles in a 12 hour day and so each day is equal to two days pay thus the job is boarded every other day. And remember, too, there is a difference in on/off duty times. Engine crews often are (were) 30 minutes before and after while train crews had only 15 minutes before and after. Of course there were rosters at various terminals with "home" crews but other crews worked in and out; there were freight and passenger rosters; there were extra boards sometimes mixed freight and passenger, sometimes totally seperate; there were commuter rosters and non commuter rosters...each railroad, each terminal, each craft had their own contracts which were inherited by the next merger, changed or not, and inherited with yet the next merger, etc. Labor contracts and mergers are a hodgepodge of rules, regulations, contract clauses, seniority districts, operating districts, merged and unmerged rosters, etc. And no two railroads and unions contracts seemed to be exactly alike so that they fit together like hand and glove. I've told this story before...and I will only vouch for it as a story,not neccessarily factual. The DL&W had a train out of Washington, NJ about 6:30 each morning arriving in Hoboken about 8:30. The engine, crew at least, was said to remove their coveralls, grab a ferry to Barclay St. and work the stockmarket until 4 PM and return to Hoboken. There they donned thier overalls, climbed aboard their train for a 5:30 departure to arrive back home in Washington about 7:30. Their assignement had that duty cycle that allowed a full day on Wall St. while getting a full day's pay as engineer and fireman! As I said, I'm not sure whether the train crew could do it or not, and it is a story that was told to me often in the '50s.
My uncle, who lived in Flushing and rode the Long Island to the city from Station Road, told me that his company, which was a national supermarket chain, had a Long Island Railroad trainmen who worked in his office, which was located in the Greybar Building off of Grand Central. This was 1956 or 1957. He was essentially a runner, coffee maker, and mailroom clerk. He worked a morning train to the city and an evening train from the city.
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