I enjoyed the article about Lynchburg, railroads in the most recent Trains. I have been there many times since our daughter went to college and settled there after graduation. I've been able to enjoy some railfanning and am getting to know the RR geography. Can somebody enlighten me concerning the route through town of the Southern - Norfolk & Western passenger trains? Also when both RR's were using steam, where did they change the locomotives? One last question, I can recall two of the train names were the Tennessean and Birmingham Special. Were there more? Thanks for the info!
SC Railfan I enjoyed the article about Lynchburg, railroads in the most recent Trains. I have been there many times since our daughter went to college and settled there after graduation. I've been able to enjoy some railfanning and am getting to know the RR geography. Can somebody enlighten me concerning the route through town of the Southern - Norfolk & Western passenger trains? Also when both RR's were using steam, where did they change the locomotives? One last question, I can recall two of the train names were the Tennessean and Birmingham Special. Were there more? Thanks for the info!
Whether it was a steam-steam or diesel-steam change, the engine change took place took place at Monroe--the N&W engine crews ran their own engines Monroe-Roanoke or Monroe-Bristol. After 1/1/1968, the Southern diesels ran through, but I doubt that there was a change in the crew changes.
The third train ws the Pelican, which was a Washington-New Orleans train, taking a night, a day, and a night for its run.
My pleasure.
Johnny
Here is what I know. around WW-2 SOU steam was changed to N&W steam at Monroe as that was the only roundhouse facility near Lynchburg. (N&W station was on the river ?) Which RR engine crew operated Monroe - Lynchburg I have not found out. After WW2 before all N&W Js were available the practice continued until SOU bought some DL-109s? These were operated Wash - thru on N&W thru Bristol to Memphis. The boilers of the DLs were probably filled in Monroe and/or Roanoke. Boiler water in Bristol came from potable water hoses (very slow)/ .N&W steam was used on the Birmingham Special and Pelican Monroe -Bristol.
Once enough Js and Ks were available on N&W the DLs were no longer used on N&W. The engine changes continued at Monroe (usually Fs) and at Bristol (Fs all 3 trains until SOU acquired 6 Alcoa PAs (6900 - 6905 sublettered NO&NE)(This was the same numbers that the DLs had before their retirement) . Two PAs were then added to the Tennessean at Bristol thru to Memphis with sometime rotation of equipment at Chattanooga for forwarding to Atlanta Pegram shop for planned maintenance. So SOU usually kept 2 PAs on standby in Chatanooga unless any PAs sent to Pegram.
On Jan 1 1957 N&W retired steam on route Roanoke - Bristol and again used SOU diesels (almosts always E units) that usually went WASH - Chatanooga - Memphis / Birmingham / New Orleans, Protect FPs were kept at Knoxville, Chatanooga, Birmingham. Regular boiler watering hoses were added just before this conversion at both ends of the Bristol platforms to speed up water servicing and for a while a diesel tanker fueled the locos as well.
Sorry I have no knowledge of Lynchburg routings
Yes, Monroe was the logical engine change point since it was the south end of the Southern’s Washington Division. Running a Southern Danville Division engine (and crew) the 7.4 miles between Monroe and Lynchburg does not seem a practicable thing to do, so it is probable that the N&W engines were operated by N&W employees into and out of Monroe.
Yes, the Lynchburg Union Station, used by the C&O and the N&W, was on the river.
As to operating Southern engines through before the N&W stopped using the J’s on these trains, every Southern timetable, through the end of steam power on the Southern, that I have indicates that the trains that ran over the N&W were steam-powered between Monroe and Bristol.
As to the date that the J’s no longer pulled these trains, I am puzzled by the statement that as of 1/1/1957 the N&W no longer used steam on them, since I was at the station many times during 1957 and watched J’s bring trains in and take them out. Also, I rode the Tennessean from Chattanooga to Bristol on 3 January 1958, and I was disappointed that the engines on the point were EMD's, and PA's.
The PA’s were also used on the day train between Chattanooga and Memphis.
Deggesty Yes, Monroe was the logical engine change point since it was the south end of the Southern’s Washington Division. Running a Southern Danville Division engine (and crew) the 7.4 miles between Monroe and Lynchburg does not seem a practicable thing to do, so it is probable that the N&W engines were operated by N&W employees into and out of Monroe. Yes, the Lynchburg Union Station, used by the C&O and the N&W, was on the river. As to operating Southern engines through before the N&W stopped using the J’s on these trains, every Southern timetable, through the end of steam power on the Southern, that I have indicates that the trains that ran over the N&W were steam-powered between Monroe and Bristol. DEG: Yes both the Pelican and BHM Special were operated that way as well as the local Roanoke - Bristol. I have somewhere a picture of a single DL operating the Tennessean on the N&W. Since the Js were not all built until after WW2 that may be a possibile explanation. But once the Js were all built my understanding is the DLs were discontinued. As to the date that the J’s no longer pulled these trains, I am puzzled by the statement that as of 1/1/1957 the N&W no longer used steam on them, since I was at the station many times during 1957 and watched J’s bring trains in and take them out. Could be I had the year wrong and was Jan 1 1958. Also, I rode the Tennessean from Chattanooga to Bristol on 3 January 1958, and I was disappointed that the engines on the point were EMD's, and PA's. That makes your date seem correct since SOU was still sorting out their engine consists for the first few days. I know it was not long after the N&W steam retirement that the PAs were gone from Bristol routes. Later that year I did find the PAs on the dead line at Pegram! The PA’s were also used on the day train between Chattanooga and Memphis. Cannot speak on that.
DEG: Yes both the Pelican and BHM Special were operated that way as well as the local Roanoke - Bristol. I have somewhere a picture of a single DL operating the Tennessean on the N&W. Since the Js were not all built until after WW2 that may be a possibile explanation. But once the Js were all built my understanding is the DLs were discontinued.
As to the date that the J’s no longer pulled these trains, I am puzzled by the statement that as of 1/1/1957 the N&W no longer used steam on them, since I was at the station many times during 1957 and watched J’s bring trains in and take them out.
Could be I had the year wrong and was Jan 1 1958.
Also, I rode the Tennessean from Chattanooga to Bristol on 3 January 1958, and I was disappointed that the engines on the point were EMD's, and PA's.
That makes your date seem correct since SOU was still sorting out their engine consists for the first few days. I know it was not long after the N&W steam retirement that the PAs were gone from Bristol routes. Later that year I did find the PAs on the dead line at Pegram!
Cannot speak on that.
Disregard that last post; I went to eat supper after sending it and did not get back to the thread; apparently Kalmbach's system thought it was a new post as I went back.
As to the DL in with the Tennessean, it may have been taken when the N&W was short on coal because of a strike--I have seen such a picture that was taken under that circumstance.
Did not the DL's remain in service until they were replaced by the PA's?
Deggesty As to the DL in with the Tennessean, it may have been taken when the N&W was short on coal because of a strike--I have seen such a picture that was taken under that circumstance. Now that sounds very logical. Seem to remember something about that coal strike. Did not the DL's remain in service until they were replaced by the PA's? I can remember the Tennessean using F units for a while before the PAs came on. Also the PAs used the same numbers the DLs used earlier including the NO&NE sublettering. Do not know if DLs were used somewhere else. All Alcoa products had major service and basing at Atlanta's Pegram shop so the DLs may have operated out of ATL later.
Now that sounds very logical. Seem to remember something about that coal strike.
I can remember the Tennessean using F units for a while before the PAs came on. Also the PAs used the same numbers the DLs used earlier including the NO&NE sublettering. Do not know if DLs were used somewhere else. All Alcoa products had major service and basing at Atlanta's Pegram shop so the DLs may have operated out of ATL later.
Thanks for the info guys! That cleared up a lot of questions. I was aware of the connection between Montview and Kenny yards but didn't know the passenger trains went that way. I have a 1965 Southern passenger TT and it shows that every train stopped in Monroe for anywhere from 3 to 17 minutes and then stopped in Lynchburg for 1 to 22 minutes.
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