The Mannheim stop is pretty far off. I suppose in the short term, the best thing would be to have many more trains (some sort of dedicated shuttle DMU's like Talents, fitted out with baggage racks) run non-stop to the Metra North Central Service O'Hare Transfer station and extend the ATS about 2,000 feet to it.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
There is already a stop at Mannheim Rd on the MD-W. It currently serves about six or seven trains in each direction per day, mostly in rush hour.
It was just a thought thrown out there, but I was thinking of putting in a new stop on the MDW next to the Bensenville yard. There is a point there where the RoW is very close to Irving Park (Rt 19) and the airport. MNC service would be hard to expand to the necessary frequency, as they can't expand it even now for commuter service.
schlimm Redore: Excuse me for asking, but doesn't the CTA blue line already run from a couple blocks from Union Station right to O'Hare? Only six relatively short blocks, but unless you are traveling light, that might be a bit much for many folks. Why not put up a transfer on the Milwaukee District West Line south of the airport? At first, shuttle buses could go into O'Hare; later, a southern extension of the sky train could connect.
Redore: Excuse me for asking, but doesn't the CTA blue line already run from a couple blocks from Union Station right to O'Hare?
Excuse me for asking, but doesn't the CTA blue line already run from a couple blocks from Union Station right to O'Hare?
Only six relatively short blocks, but unless you are traveling light, that might be a bit much for many folks. Why not put up a transfer on the Milwaukee District West Line south of the airport? At first, shuttle buses could go into O'Hare; later, a southern extension of the sky train could connect.
Missed the second question.
The sky train (? - was the Airport Transit System) ends about 2,000 feet, 0.4 mi, from the Metra North Central Service O'Hare Transfer station. It was thought that the ATS should be extended rather than relying on the remote parking shuttle for the 2 min trip to the ATS.
The World-class solution would be to go directly to the two existing and future third terminals. This would take a lot more than the existing Midwest Corridor trains to be warranted.
Better bus service from the existing Franklin Park station on the Milwaukee West certainly is needed in the interim. A lot of people coming in from Elgin and intermediate stations could use this; and this would help with a Rockford commuter service and a Dubuque service on the right route with a change in politicos.
Franklin Park is 6.3 mi and 16 min from the ATS Parking station where Pace has been banished. Extending the ATS 2.8 mi to Front & Mannheim in Franklin Park is problematic both for the cost for aerial structure and that it would be off Airport property and control might have to be shared with Schiller Park and Franklin Park. At one time extending the ATS was estimated to cost $100 million a mile.
Rosemont has been given the cold shoulder for a branch. A Rosemont branch could be only ~1.8 mi and could go to the Rosemont Metra NCS station, Balmoral & River hotels & parking, Stevens Convention Center, the Rosemont-River Rd CTA Blue Line station, and end at Higgins & River hotels.
I'll be a little picky here - it's just two short blocks from the Jackson-Clinton exit from Union Station to the Congress-Clinton CTA Blue Line entrance. Whether that way or from the Canal St exit, it's about 4 blocks from the platform gates.
Redore Excuse me for asking, but doesn't the CTA blue line already run from a couple blocks from Union Station right to O'Hare?
grover5995 Another possible route would be south from Union Station on the BN/METRA to Halsted Street and then switching to the former SOO LINE tracks westbound through River Forest, Melrose Park and Schiller Park with a connection to the CTA Blue Line near the present "Transfer" station. The existing terminal at O'Hare Field could be used for now with these trains running with all-electric equipment up to 100mph on the grade-separated right-of-way in the city. This route would avoid congestion on the Milwaukee-West line and involve a shared route with the North Central Line from Franklin Park north to the Blue Line. This route could be built fairly quickly since there is little traffic south of River Grove now and it would be a great start to future AMTRAK high-speed (regional?) service in the Midwest.
Another possible route would be south from Union Station on the BN/METRA to Halsted Street and then switching to the former SOO LINE tracks westbound through River Forest, Melrose Park and Schiller Park with a connection to the CTA Blue Line near the present "Transfer" station. The existing terminal at O'Hare Field could be used for now with these trains running with all-electric equipment up to 100mph on the grade-separated right-of-way in the city. This route would avoid congestion on the Milwaukee-West line and involve a shared route with the North Central Line from Franklin Park north to the Blue Line. This route could be built fairly quickly since there is little traffic south of River Grove now and it would be a great start to future AMTRAK high-speed (regional?) service in the Midwest.
With respect to your proposal:
FWIW, the alternative of extending the Blue Line from Forest Park has been considered. The right of way has no room for CTA tracks through Franklin Park and Schiller Park; and at least one additional track would be needed between Forest Park and Franklin Park which is complicated by the elevation over the UP at River Forest.
ndbprr So I should take the Rock Island into LaSalle St (about 24 miles). Schlep over to Union Station and get on Amtrak which will take me to Rosemont. Schlep up three flights of stairs at the Rosemont station and get on a bus to get to O'Hare. 1 and 1/2 hours to down town. 1/2 hour transfer or more to Union Station. Probably at least 1/2 hour to O'Hare plus 1/2 hour waiting for and riding the bus and two fares that are more expensive then the direct bus that takes 45 minutes and drops me at the terminal. IF they want to do something intelligent put high speed rail between Mitchell field in Milwaukee, O'Hare. Midway and South Bend. then put parking lots on the outskirts like the Illinois state line, the indiana state line and halfway between Midway and O'Hare west of Joliet. For the most part it could run elevated on the TriState tollroad centerline or I-55, be a true dedicated high speed rail line and do some good because travellers could get to any airport in the area.
So I should take the Rock Island into LaSalle St (about 24 miles). Schlep over to Union Station and get on Amtrak which will take me to Rosemont. Schlep up three flights of stairs at the Rosemont station and get on a bus to get to O'Hare. 1 and 1/2 hours to down town. 1/2 hour transfer or more to Union Station. Probably at least 1/2 hour to O'Hare plus 1/2 hour waiting for and riding the bus and two fares that are more expensive then the direct bus that takes 45 minutes and drops me at the terminal. IF they want to do something intelligent put high speed rail between Mitchell field in Milwaukee, O'Hare. Midway and South Bend. then put parking lots on the outskirts like the Illinois state line, the indiana state line and halfway between Midway and O'Hare west of Joliet. For the most part it could run elevated on the TriState tollroad centerline or I-55, be a true dedicated high speed rail line and do some good because travellers could get to any airport in the area.
Just you wait till they create the Star Line that'll directly connect Chicagos Ohare airport and Joliet, and all the towns in between.
Mr. Railman Why create a passenger route over a Metra route that could clearly create express trains from Union Station?! The only way Amtrak could go to Ohare if it went to Rockford via a connection (they'd have to build it) to the UP West line at Deval.
Why create a passenger route over a Metra route that could clearly create express trains from Union Station?! The only way Amtrak could go to Ohare if it went to Rockford via a connection (they'd have to build it) to the UP West line at Deval.
BTW, a non-stop train from Union Station to O'Hare Transfer would take 26 minutes based on Metra schedules by way of the Milwaukee District West. Figure on another 10 minutes for the shuttle and ATS to reach the terminals - not very user-friendly.
Trains would use the run-through tracks at Union Station. The biggest problem will be track capacity on the MDW in the evening rush hour for separate trains, especially with dedicated airport trains that may need to run every 15 minutes. Existing Metra NCS trains would have capacity; but low platform boarding is not conducive for luggage, and neither are car interiors.
In addition, running frequent Metra trains from McCormick Place to O'Hare and the northern and western suburbs through Union Station may be doable to the extent that capacity allows, 7 trains an hour combined airport-suburban with a 4 min dwell time. This would provide job connections from the South Side and south suburbs served by the Metra Electric and NICTD South Shore.
I thought that a Talgo might not be too bad for an airport service with the low floor and longitudinal seating along the walls like many of the airport car rental shuttle buses. Might carry 300-400 passengers.
None of the current or projected Amtrak services to O'Hare would run in the peak direction.
First of all, the point is to extend existing Amtrak services, most Illinois and Michigan trains, from Union Station to O'Hare. The article wasn't too clear about future access or what effect HSR development would have.
Chicago-Rockford-Dubuque would be 4 trains a day and come nowhere near O'Hare with the asinine selection of the CN routing. A Rockford-Chicago commuter service by way of Elgin and the UP-MDW only is on the radar in Rockford. It would have been nice to consolidate services and share costs.
The proposal to put the Amtrak terminal on the west side of O'Hare is ludicrous without the supporting CTA or Airport Transit System extension from the existing terminals; and that won't happen without significantly more air travel to justify the proposed west terminal. The Department of Aviation has been deaf (or wearing earplugs?) regarding the suggestion to build a satellite ground terminal with Amtrak, Metra, Pace (bus), and convenient parking facilities for people coming from west of the airport and avoiding congestion on the existing entrance from the east.
While I'm on the topic, not only would a new connection be needed at Deval (Des Plaines) but also at Bensenville to have direct service between O'Hare and Rockford from Chicago. On top of that, a shuttle bus would be needed to drive around the airport and would take a 1/2 hour after the round-about train route. A much more pragmatic solution would be for a stop at Franklin Park on the Metra Milwaukee District West with a 10 min shuttle bus to the airline terminals or to the Rosemont (aka River Rd) Transportation Center.
The first proposal (20-30 yrs ago?) for extending Amtrak service was to terminate at the expeditious O'Hare Transfer station on the Metra North Central Service piggy-backing on the airport shuttle bus to the adjacent remote parking lot from the current ATS terminus. The City estimated that it would cost $40 million to extend the elevated ATS 2,000 ft to the Metra station. The good news is that CN will reroute most freight around Chicago on the former EJ&E and bypass the former Wisconsin Central section to O'Hare.
Long-term, MHSRA is pushing for a Frankfurt or Zurich type station at the airline terminals; but who would pay for it? Would the Dept of Aviation and the airlines even want to talk about it or give up control over who gets in and who stays out with a huge impact on regional transportation planning?
O'Hare Transfer is a stop on Metra's North Central Service (CN, ex-WC, ex-SOO). It would take a convoluted routing on Amtrak's part to include that stop in a through route to anywhere of consequence.
does Amtrak know about the OHARE TRANSFER?! There's a free shuttle train that takes you to the airport from the station area.
A factual article. As I said, the airlines agreed to pay the bulk, $2 Bil, of the cost of this phase of expansion a decade ago. Now? They sue to break the contract.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/01/19/pm-airlines-sue-chicago-to-stop-ohare-expansion-1/
schlimm There are different viewpoints and I guess it may take the courts to decide. My impression was everyone agreed with the whole expansion plan.
There are different viewpoints and I guess it may take the courts to decide. My impression was everyone agreed with the whole expansion plan.
Looking through a couple of articles in the Chicago Tribune, I was amused to read that Daley was upset because the airlines broke their promise - and this is from someone who illegally closed Miegs field.
Having said that, I don't think Amtrak to O'Hare makes sense.
- Erik
No they don't. the PFC charges that are added onto tickets are assessed by the Airport and are capped at total cost per reservation (Used to be $32, but its been a while since I worked in the airliens biz). The PFC's dont begin to cover the cost of facilities,. The Air traffic control system is a whole other story, andis covered 100% at tax payers expense. not even going to get into the cost of securty which also is not covered by the Sept. 11 security fee. Lots of litle fees, but they airports, and their tenants are still finding their way to the trough.
This Line Is Not Around Yet But A Proposed Line (Chi-Ohare).
schlimm The thing is, the Big 2 wanted expansion of O'Hare rather than a 3rd airport at Peotone, when business was good and capacity was tight. That was the primary reason for even considering expansion (part of it is reconfiguration or realignment of the runways to be like Hartsfield - multiple parallel E-W runways).
The thing is, the Big 2 wanted expansion of O'Hare rather than a 3rd airport at Peotone, when business was good and capacity was tight. That was the primary reason for even considering expansion (part of it is reconfiguration or realignment of the runways to be like Hartsfield - multiple parallel E-W runways).
The thing is, United and American got what they wanted. The expansion that has been done is all that is needed now. The city of Chicago is right now asking both United and American to pay for expansion that the two airlines won't use. I have no issue with the airlines not wanting to pay for something that they don't need.
An "expensive model collector"
schlimm And you think the airlines pay for all their facilities?
And you think the airlines pay for all their facilities?
Yes they do.
schlimm On a related note: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-sources-cityairlines-ohare-talks-near-collapse-20110224,0,673833.story And you think the airlines pay for all their facilities?
On a related note:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-sources-cityairlines-ohare-talks-near-collapse-20110224,0,673833.story
I think the airlines are fighting this because it means their facility use fees/ticket fees will go up to service the construction bonds. United and American aren't too far removed from bad financial times - they don't want to start paying for a runway they don't need.
The city's values and the airline's values are clearly not aligned. To the city, this is all about construction jobs. To the airlines, it's just a capacity issue.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
You mean UP Northwest? Anyway an Amtrak line to O'Hare would merely be a link to Union Station, so it wouldn't go to Rockford. Expansion isn't happening anytime soon as the GOP (federal House) is cutting funding to Illinois in another political move in the disguise of budget balancing.
Rockford is just a major city to end in (the middle of nowhere seems more stupid). Deval junction is in the Des Plaines area and is where the UP West line crosses over the CNW "New" line crosses over the CN WC sub crosses over both. to sum it up: it's a rail triangle of three mainlines :D
Why Rockford? Where is "Deval?"
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