Railway Man schlimm: Paul Milenkovic: You know what is really depressing? I have heard that line of reasoning for forty years since the inception of Amtrak. That mode of being mad at the rest of America hasn't worked over the last forty years, and I find it depressing that this is what we will do to support trains in the next forty years, which means things will pretty much stay the same, that is, if we are lucky. We need to come up with more persuasive arguments as to how trains can meet people's needs rather than being mad at people for not doing what we think they ought to do. Exactly!! x2!
schlimm: Paul Milenkovic: You know what is really depressing? I have heard that line of reasoning for forty years since the inception of Amtrak. That mode of being mad at the rest of America hasn't worked over the last forty years, and I find it depressing that this is what we will do to support trains in the next forty years, which means things will pretty much stay the same, that is, if we are lucky. We need to come up with more persuasive arguments as to how trains can meet people's needs rather than being mad at people for not doing what we think they ought to do. Exactly!!
Paul Milenkovic: You know what is really depressing? I have heard that line of reasoning for forty years since the inception of Amtrak. That mode of being mad at the rest of America hasn't worked over the last forty years, and I find it depressing that this is what we will do to support trains in the next forty years, which means things will pretty much stay the same, that is, if we are lucky. We need to come up with more persuasive arguments as to how trains can meet people's needs rather than being mad at people for not doing what we think they ought to do.
You know what is really depressing? I have heard that line of reasoning for forty years since the inception of Amtrak. That mode of being mad at the rest of America hasn't worked over the last forty years, and I find it depressing that this is what we will do to support trains in the next forty years, which means things will pretty much stay the same, that is, if we are lucky.
We need to come up with more persuasive arguments as to how trains can meet people's needs rather than being mad at people for not doing what we think they ought to do.
Exactly!!
x2!
^2
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
henry6 carnej1: henry6: When the Swiss are working with 99mph freight you say our freight railroading is ahead of the rest of the world? And virtually every other country is building some form of high speed rail for passengers or just plain railroads where there are none or maintain and value the railroads they've got whle we are constantly making lists of lines we can do without. The US is bogged down in "heavy guage"; things need to be bigger, heavier, more solid, etc. The US is bogged down in the status quo: what has done us service til now will still do us service into the future. The US is bogged down in private enterprise investors as being the only true test of the value of a product or service: if you can't get at least 75% of your investment back within a year, it isn't worth the investment (sarcasticly said). The US is bogged down in anti Socicialism without knowing what it is; it is bad because my father and the Conservatives and Republicans always said it was bad and that's all we need to know. What are we afraid of? It appears we are afraid of real progress, we are afraid of ourselves and success? Our country was not built by wusses who felt that oxen dragging wagons was a perfect transportation system, that water was the only liquid worth while coming out of the ground, that stone was the only solid worth coming out of the earth, or that spinning yarn was the only thing that could be the activity is a factory. People saw ideas and developed those ideas into viable multi billion dollar industries. Today, the mantra is you don't work, your money does...so give me your money, go lie down on the couch and watch the Superbowl but don't watch what I do with your money: gottcha! The Swiss and other European railroad networks are working on 99 MPH freight equipment in an attempt to be able to move more cargo over what is historically a dedicated passenger network without disrupting the existing service..their systems are passenger first and freight a distant second, North America for the most part is the opposite... It's difficult to see that as proof that "they are ahead of us" in freight technology... The biggest difference between the US and Europe train-wise is that the rail network over there evolved country- by -country, with each national rail system being no larger than a US state...It as if a bunch of independent northeast corridors were developed and then linked as the political and economic ties grew closer..that is not a criticism of either system but it does explain a lot of the differences.. The point is that they are doing something positive, not arguing political and social philosophies, not saying that it has to be the way it was because we arn't going to change our mindsets. They apparently are ahead of freight technology because I don't hear much of HSF here but that I81 needs to be relieved of truck traffic so maybe somebody should build another 50 MPH track alongside the existing 50 MPH track; or to highten a bridge or tunnel so that double stacks (a now 40+ year technology) can fit. And if the difference between US and Europe is because the European rail network evolved country by country then maybe it is because, country by country, the governments stepped up to the plate to make it happen while here we point fingers and throw words around to find who to blame for where we are and who should do something about it. And again remember the heavy/light guage difference, too. In a conversation with an Ahlsom VP here in the states he said there are innovations over there that cannot be and will not be used here because of our loadging guage. Our attitudes toward rail in the US has made North American railroading a contenent of difference on it own island.
carnej1: henry6: When the Swiss are working with 99mph freight you say our freight railroading is ahead of the rest of the world? And virtually every other country is building some form of high speed rail for passengers or just plain railroads where there are none or maintain and value the railroads they've got whle we are constantly making lists of lines we can do without. The US is bogged down in "heavy guage"; things need to be bigger, heavier, more solid, etc. The US is bogged down in the status quo: what has done us service til now will still do us service into the future. The US is bogged down in private enterprise investors as being the only true test of the value of a product or service: if you can't get at least 75% of your investment back within a year, it isn't worth the investment (sarcasticly said). The US is bogged down in anti Socicialism without knowing what it is; it is bad because my father and the Conservatives and Republicans always said it was bad and that's all we need to know. What are we afraid of? It appears we are afraid of real progress, we are afraid of ourselves and success? Our country was not built by wusses who felt that oxen dragging wagons was a perfect transportation system, that water was the only liquid worth while coming out of the ground, that stone was the only solid worth coming out of the earth, or that spinning yarn was the only thing that could be the activity is a factory. People saw ideas and developed those ideas into viable multi billion dollar industries. Today, the mantra is you don't work, your money does...so give me your money, go lie down on the couch and watch the Superbowl but don't watch what I do with your money: gottcha! The Swiss and other European railroad networks are working on 99 MPH freight equipment in an attempt to be able to move more cargo over what is historically a dedicated passenger network without disrupting the existing service..their systems are passenger first and freight a distant second, North America for the most part is the opposite... It's difficult to see that as proof that "they are ahead of us" in freight technology... The biggest difference between the US and Europe train-wise is that the rail network over there evolved country- by -country, with each national rail system being no larger than a US state...It as if a bunch of independent northeast corridors were developed and then linked as the political and economic ties grew closer..that is not a criticism of either system but it does explain a lot of the differences..
henry6: When the Swiss are working with 99mph freight you say our freight railroading is ahead of the rest of the world? And virtually every other country is building some form of high speed rail for passengers or just plain railroads where there are none or maintain and value the railroads they've got whle we are constantly making lists of lines we can do without. The US is bogged down in "heavy guage"; things need to be bigger, heavier, more solid, etc. The US is bogged down in the status quo: what has done us service til now will still do us service into the future. The US is bogged down in private enterprise investors as being the only true test of the value of a product or service: if you can't get at least 75% of your investment back within a year, it isn't worth the investment (sarcasticly said). The US is bogged down in anti Socicialism without knowing what it is; it is bad because my father and the Conservatives and Republicans always said it was bad and that's all we need to know. What are we afraid of? It appears we are afraid of real progress, we are afraid of ourselves and success? Our country was not built by wusses who felt that oxen dragging wagons was a perfect transportation system, that water was the only liquid worth while coming out of the ground, that stone was the only solid worth coming out of the earth, or that spinning yarn was the only thing that could be the activity is a factory. People saw ideas and developed those ideas into viable multi billion dollar industries. Today, the mantra is you don't work, your money does...so give me your money, go lie down on the couch and watch the Superbowl but don't watch what I do with your money: gottcha!
When the Swiss are working with 99mph freight you say our freight railroading is ahead of the rest of the world? And virtually every other country is building some form of high speed rail for passengers or just plain railroads where there are none or maintain and value the railroads they've got whle we are constantly making lists of lines we can do without. The US is bogged down in "heavy guage"; things need to be bigger, heavier, more solid, etc. The US is bogged down in the status quo: what has done us service til now will still do us service into the future. The US is bogged down in private enterprise investors as being the only true test of the value of a product or service: if you can't get at least 75% of your investment back within a year, it isn't worth the investment (sarcasticly said). The US is bogged down in anti Socicialism without knowing what it is; it is bad because my father and the Conservatives and Republicans always said it was bad and that's all we need to know. What are we afraid of? It appears we are afraid of real progress, we are afraid of ourselves and success? Our country was not built by wusses who felt that oxen dragging wagons was a perfect transportation system, that water was the only liquid worth while coming out of the ground, that stone was the only solid worth coming out of the earth, or that spinning yarn was the only thing that could be the activity is a factory. People saw ideas and developed those ideas into viable multi billion dollar industries. Today, the mantra is you don't work, your money does...so give me your money, go lie down on the couch and watch the Superbowl but don't watch what I do with your money: gottcha!
The Swiss and other European railroad networks are working on 99 MPH freight equipment in an attempt to be able to move more cargo over what is historically a dedicated passenger network without disrupting the existing service..their systems are passenger first and freight a distant second, North America for the most part is the opposite...
It's difficult to see that as proof that "they are ahead of us" in freight technology...
The biggest difference between the US and Europe train-wise is that the rail network over there evolved country- by -country, with each national rail system being no larger than a US state...It as if a bunch of independent northeast corridors were developed and then linked as the political and economic ties grew closer..that is not a criticism of either system but it does explain a lot of the differences..
The point is that they are doing something positive, not arguing political and social philosophies, not saying that it has to be the way it was because we arn't going to change our mindsets. They apparently are ahead of freight technology because I don't hear much of HSF here but that I81 needs to be relieved of truck traffic so maybe somebody should build another 50 MPH track alongside the existing 50 MPH track; or to highten a bridge or tunnel so that double stacks (a now 40+ year technology) can fit.
And if the difference between US and Europe is because the European rail network evolved country by country then maybe it is because, country by country, the governments stepped up to the plate to make it happen while here we point fingers and throw words around to find who to blame for where we are and who should do something about it. And again remember the heavy/light guage difference, too. In a conversation with an Ahlsom VP here in the states he said there are innovations over there that cannot be and will not be used here because of our loadging guage. Our attitudes toward rail in the US has made North American railroading a contenent of difference on it own island.
Speaking strictly on the freight issue the US has a much higher percentage of freight tonnage moving by rail than the majority of European nations. If you look online you can see they are having the same sort of discussions over there about how to shift freight traffic off the highways. Although Europe is, for the most part, not automobile dependent for movement of people they are still more truck dependent for freight transportation then the US..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
carnej1 henry6: When the Swiss are working with 99mph freight you say our freight railroading is ahead of the rest of the world? And virtually every other country is building some form of high speed rail for passengers or just plain railroads where there are none or maintain and value the railroads they've got whle we are constantly making lists of lines we can do without. The US is bogged down in "heavy guage"; things need to be bigger, heavier, more solid, etc. The US is bogged down in the status quo: what has done us service til now will still do us service into the future. The US is bogged down in private enterprise investors as being the only true test of the value of a product or service: if you can't get at least 75% of your investment back within a year, it isn't worth the investment (sarcasticly said). The US is bogged down in anti Socicialism without knowing what it is; it is bad because my father and the Conservatives and Republicans always said it was bad and that's all we need to know. What are we afraid of? It appears we are afraid of real progress, we are afraid of ourselves and success? Our country was not built by wusses who felt that oxen dragging wagons was a perfect transportation system, that water was the only liquid worth while coming out of the ground, that stone was the only solid worth coming out of the earth, or that spinning yarn was the only thing that could be the activity is a factory. People saw ideas and developed those ideas into viable multi billion dollar industries. Today, the mantra is you don't work, your money does...so give me your money, go lie down on the couch and watch the Superbowl but don't watch what I do with your money: gottcha! The Swiss and other European railroad networks are working on 99 MPH freight equipment in an attempt to be able to move more cargo over what is historically a dedicated passenger network without disrupting the existing service..their systems are passenger first and freight a distant second, North America for the most part is the opposite... It's difficult to see that as proof that "they are ahead of us" in freight technology... The biggest difference between the US and Europe train-wise is that the rail network over there evolved country- by -country, with each national rail system being no larger than a US state...It as if a bunch of independent northeast corridors were developed and then linked as the political and economic ties grew closer..that is not a criticism of either system but it does explain a lot of the differences..
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
henry6 When the Swiss are working with 99mph freight you say our freight railroading is ahead of the rest of the world? And virtually every other country is building some form of high speed rail for passengers or just plain railroads where there are none or maintain and value the railroads they've got whle we are constantly making lists of lines we can do without. The US is bogged down in "heavy guage"; things need to be bigger, heavier, more solid, etc. The US is bogged down in the status quo: what has done us service til now will still do us service into the future. The US is bogged down in private enterprise investors as being the only true test of the value of a product or service: if you can't get at least 75% of your investment back within a year, it isn't worth the investment (sarcasticly said). The US is bogged down in anti Socicialism without knowing what it is; it is bad because my father and the Conservatives and Republicans always said it was bad and that's all we need to know. What are we afraid of? It appears we are afraid of real progress, we are afraid of ourselves and success? Our country was not built by wusses who felt that oxen dragging wagons was a perfect transportation system, that water was the only liquid worth while coming out of the ground, that stone was the only solid worth coming out of the earth, or that spinning yarn was the only thing that could be the activity is a factory. People saw ideas and developed those ideas into viable multi billion dollar industries. Today, the mantra is you don't work, your money does...so give me your money, go lie down on the couch and watch the Superbowl but don't watch what I do with your money: gottcha!
schlimm Paul Milenkovic: You know what is really depressing? I have heard that line of reasoning for forty years since the inception of Amtrak. That mode of being mad at the rest of America hasn't worked over the last forty years, and I find it depressing that this is what we will do to support trains in the next forty years, which means things will pretty much stay the same, that is, if we are lucky. We need to come up with more persuasive arguments as to how trains can meet people's needs rather than being mad at people for not doing what we think they ought to do. Exactly!!
Paul Milenkovic You know what is really depressing? I have heard that line of reasoning for forty years since the inception of Amtrak. That mode of being mad at the rest of America hasn't worked over the last forty years, and I find it depressing that this is what we will do to support trains in the next forty years, which means things will pretty much stay the same, that is, if we are lucky. We need to come up with more persuasive arguments as to how trains can meet people's needs rather than being mad at people for not doing what we think they ought to do.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I don't care if the funding comes from the gummint' or if it comes from private en-er-prise, it comes down to whether the thing that you are sellin' is something that folks gotta have. We need to come up with more persuasive arguments as to how trains can meet people's needs rather than being mad at people for not doing what we think they ought to do.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
One should look at the ENTIRE picture when comparing North American railroading to the rest of the world. To be fair, one should also compare North American freight railroading with freight service everywhere else.
After paging thru the last few issues of the International Rail Journal I have come to the conclusion that this country is the retarded step child of railroading. Every page details dozens of newly opened high speed lines and futuristic integrated transit systems around the world - and not just in China. Counties like Bulgaria, South Africa, Morocco, Thailand, even "failed states" like Russia are building or already operating sleek and energy efficient new high speed systems. In Italy and France independent operators compete on the same rail lines with faster and more luxurious train sets.
Meanwhile every US originated story seems to be about endless delays, political infighting and very little actual investment. Truly a sad state of affairs for a former technology leader.
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