I read this from Wikipedia:
Today, Amtrak's Auto Train, carries about 200,000 passengers and generates around $50 million in revenue annually. It is considered Amtrak's best-paying train, being the top of a handful of Amtrak trains that make a profit
if this is true (I think it's unlikely because it's from wikipedia), then why haven't they considered putting autoracks onto their other cross-country trains like the Empire builder? PEOPLE GOING WEST WANT TO HAVE THEIR CARS TOOO! and with the Uni- level autorack, people could bring their RV along for the ride.
It's could be a "snowbird" issue. I suspect many people using the Autotrain are retired folks who live in the northeast and are going to their winter home in Florida and want to bring their car with them (and back). Of course on top of those numbers, many northeasterners take winter vacations in Florida. I would think most people using the Empire Builder between Chicago and Seattle aren't really that interested in taking their cars with them. Most Midwestern snowbirds go to Arizona, and there aren't any great direct train routes to and from there.
Yes their is. the southwest chief cuts right through AZ from Chicago Union Station though it doesn't dip into Phoenix, it could provide an alternative to driving (unless you want to follow Route 66 in a car)
During FY10 the Auto Train lost $21.6 million before allocation of interest and depreciation. It had an average load factor of approximately 65 per cent. In FY09 it lost $21.2 million before interest and depreciation.
In FY10 only two Amtrak trains had an operating profit: the Acela's and the Washington to Lynchburg trains. However, after allocation of interest and depreciation, the Acela's ran in the red. Most of Amtrak's depreciation and interest expenses is a function of its large capital investment in the NEC.
I am not sure about the Washington to Lynchburg trains. The amount of interest and depreciation that they would attract, if Amtrak allocated depreciation and interest to each train route, which it claims it cannot do, at least for now, these trains may have made a true profit. To be profitable an entity (Amtrak) has to cover all of its costs, including depreciation and interest charges.
If the Auto Train cannot cover its expenses between the northeast and Florida, which are two of the most densely populated regions in the country, it is unlikely that a similar operation in other parts of the country could cover their expenses. Given the financial challenges facing Amtrak and the federal government, it is unlikely that the Congress would support another money losing train.
Agreed. Amtrak needs to allocate its limited resources wisely. If a given LD route or specific train runs at such a low load factor, why continue running it, when it generates such a big loss? For whom? For someone who is too cheap to rent a car in Florida?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Did not Auto-Train in the early days try a second route to Florida from some place south of Chicago? The ridership did not appear in sufficient quantity and I think it only operated for a year or two before cancellation.
CN for a few years would add some double-deck autoboxes to the rear of the Super-Continental across Canada, between Toronto and Edmonton I believe. Again a short term experiment. For most people the visible out-of-pocket cost of driving is far lower.
John
People who use the Auto Train are going for the season. That's why they are willing to pay so much to take their car. If you are only going for a couple of weeks it is cheaper and much less hassle to rent a car at your destination.
If you are moving, the moving company will be glad to ship your car, and if you really need it because it is specially equipped, for example a disabled person's van, you can have it shipped by someone other than Amtrak, to any city you like.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
B&O also tried a "take-your-car" service between Chicago and Washington in the mid-1960's when Paul Reistrup was in charge of passenger operations. The service had few takers and was dropped.
The present Auto Train does loose some operating money. Part of the problem is lack of equipment which would be 27 passenger cARS and 22 auto carriers for the 2 trains + some HEP power source on the rear of the passenger section; as 27 passenger cars have too much power drain on the power cables (present trains limited to about 18 passenger cars). This falls into CSX's 50 car limits for Auto trains. If these trains were full one way then they would probqably hqve an operqting profit but 21 more superliner passenger cars are not presently availqble.
Also some way to backfill the trains (ie north in fall and south in spring) is needed.
Phoebe Vet People who use the Auto Train are going for the season. That's why they are willing to pay so much to take their car. If you are only going for a couple of weeks it is cheaper and much less hassle to rent a car at your destination.
Johnny
One potentially-profitable US adaptaion of the Auto-Train, which I have never seen anyone suggest or discuss, is a service similar to the Swiss services for traversing snowy mountain passes.
Here in California, there is very heavy road traffic through Donner Pass over the Sierras between Northern California (Sacramento & the San Francisco Bay Area) and the Lake Tahoe/Reno areas, especially in winter (all those skiers!), when traffic conditions can be very slow and tortious over Interstate 80, frequently requiring adding & removing chains (if the highway is not closed completely).
I would think that trucks and busses, as well as cars, would make good use of such a service (assuming you coulkd get UP to allow it -- but that's for another thread altogether!).
cx500 Did not Auto-Train in the early days try a second route to Florida from some place south of Chicago? The ridership did not appear in sufficient quantity and I think it only operated for a year or two before cancellation. CN for a few years would add some double-deck autoboxes to the rear of the Super-Continental across Canada, between Toronto and Edmonton I believe. Again a short term experiment. For most people the visible out-of-pocket cost of driving is far lower. John
My recollection (which, in my delining years, may be less than accurate) is that Auto-Train ran a Louisville-Florida train for a short time. The idea was that people in the midwest would drive to Louisville, and then take the train to Florida. I also recall it was not a success, and its failure was a factor in Auto-Train's ultimate demise.
Dragoman One potentially-profitable US adaptaion of the Auto-Train, which I have never seen anyone suggest or discuss, is a service similar to the Swiss services for traversing snowy mountain passes. Here in California, there is very heavy road traffic through Donner Pass over the Sierras between Northern California (Sacramento & the San Francisco Bay Area) and the Lake Tahoe/Reno areas, especially in winter (all those skiers!), when traffic conditions can be very slow and tortious over Interstate 80, frequently requiring adding & removing chains (if the highway is not closed completely). I would think that trucks and busses, as well as cars, would make good use of such a service (assuming you coulkd get UP to allow it -- but that's for another thread altogether!).
Something along those lines might make sense along the NEC, too. Anyone who's driven I-95 from Richmond to Boston - or any part thereof - can attest that a good deal of aggravation and perhaps, time, could be saved with a car ferry service.
Would have to be a very simple, roll-on roll-off system where the passengers stay in the car. Service could have stations along the way (built between cities where land and access is cheaper), say Fredericksburg, Bowie, Aberdeen, Claymont, Hamilton, etc.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
While I don't know it for a fact, it is my understanding that the Auto Train doesn't go all the way to NYC because the equipment is too large for the tunnels.
It costs between $150 and $200 each way to ship your car on Auto Train. It only costs $30 or $40 a day to rent a car at your destination. Unless you have special automotive needs or are going for a long time, renting a car seems like a better option for most people.
Auto Train started service from Louisville, Ky to Sanford. It was not a roaring success because the trip time was much longer. Auto Train corp built a terminal near L&N Osborne yard (?). Then Amtrak Floridian started using it as well with the closure of Louisville Union Station. Auto train to reduce operating costs then attached its equipment onto the rear of the Floridian (CHI - Florida station not recalled) but upon the Carter administration cut backs both Floridian and Louisville Auto train service terminated.
Phoebe Vet While I don't know it for a fact, it is my understanding that the Auto Train doesn't go all the way to NYC because the equipment is too large for the tunnels.
Mr. Railman ...why haven't ...[Amtrak]...considered putting autoracks onto their other cross-country trains like the Empire builder?
...why haven't ...[Amtrak]...considered putting autoracks onto their other cross-country trains like the Empire builder?
That is correct: The tunnel situation starts in DC. CSX's Virginia Ave tunnel is the first tunnel; being a not very tall single track tunnel that is on CSX's plan to be rebuild for the double stack corrridor and also be double tracked. The last information I saw was it still is in design acceptance (?) (anyone know its progress?). The tunnel to WASH union station is not useable although it will take Superliners but not the auto carriers.
I believe that once Va Ave is complete CSX will have clearances all the way to past PHL.
You cannot by pass WASH US and go on the NEC as the B&P tunnel into Baltimore does not have clearance even for a train using the freight gauntlet track in the B&P tunnel. As well there may be overhead bridge and CAT clearance issues.
Why should any more Auto Train routes be run?
1. It is all about equippment. Present trains have not met their 50 car limit. The next 10 days thru the 16th of Jan there are very few seats available Lorton - Sanford with 5 or 6 days sold out. AMTRAK needs more equipment of at least 25 more Superliners just to fill out the present train.
2. New terminals on other routes would need capial to be built.
3. Tacking on auto train cars at an out side of metro area might effect the schedule by adding 30 minutes at the origination and 5 minutes at terminal. Seattle might be a problem finding a location.
4. Even running a 3 times week service would require 3 train sets on the EB, SW Lim, CZ. All this adds up to 30 - 50 more superliners for any route. Daily service 60 - 100 cars depending or marketing prowess.
5. So it all adds up to equipment availability.
We have no idea with the present political climate when or if funds will be available to purchase these additional required cars.
To muddy the situation even more present LD trains may be overwhelmed with new passengers if ( and I am not sure it will happen ) there is a stampede to AMTRAK if gasoline prices go as high as some experts (?) predict. That would be another demand for more superliners (bi-levels). Based on the lead time of producing rail cars we can expect a 2-1/2 to 3 year lag before any deliveries of additional superliners from the time an order is signed. Don't even guess when cars would be available.
So why start any new service when present services may absorb all capacity??
Marketing research found people would drive a certain distance to get to an Auto Train. It was attempted to be run out of NJ but didn't work. There also was a mid west train aimed at the Chicago market which also failed. Both were preAmtrak. The transloading facilities in FL cannot take much more capacity, so running more trains to there would not be pratical. Cost of the passenger and auto rack cars plus transloading facilities are a major factor. Amtrak doesn't need or want another train, much less a non conforming train, on the Corridor. It is a great idea and concept. Elsewhere in the world it seems to work to different degrees. The public has never had a real reason to utilize such service here beyond what Amtrak has been able to eek out of the system. Major investment in equipment, land, marketing, and advertising might do it to enlarge the current route or add additional routes if it could be sold to the freight railroads, too.
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henry6 It is a great idea and concept. Elsewhere in the world it seems to work to different degrees.
It is a great idea and concept. Elsewhere in the world it seems to work to different degrees.
Passengers on The Overland, which runs three days a week between Melbourne and Adelaide, Australia, can have their vehicle carried on the train to the end points. It costs $149 to $199 AUD for an accompanied vehicle and $199 to $265 AUD for an unaccompanied vehicle. The Overland is a daytime train between the two cities.
The Overland, together with the Indian Pacific and The Gahn, is operated by the Great Southern Railway (GSR). It is an investor owned corporation that operates the trains under contract for the Australian federal government. They are Australia's premier long distance trains.
I have ridden all three trains at least once. The service is much better than the service that I have received on Amtrak. In part I chalk it up to the fact that GSR's contract with the federal government includes strict performance and customer satisfaction standards along with substantial financial incentives for meeting or exceeding the standards. On the other hand, if GSR fails to meet the standards, it loses money and, furthermore, if it consistently under performs, it can lose the contract.
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