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New Viewliners to have "...modern interiors with better layouts..."

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New Viewliners to have "...modern interiors with better layouts..."
Posted by BostonTrainGuy on Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:37 AM

Anyone have any idea of what these new layouts are?

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, July 24, 2010 5:12 PM

A truly better layout will include space for the carry-on baggage that cannot be stowed in a room.

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Posted by aegrotatio on Monday, July 26, 2010 4:22 PM

From what I understand, the electrical panel needs and is getting a complete redesign.  The advancement of a couple decades of electrical thinking are hopefully being applied.  The broken televisions are coming out.  The lighted switches that immediately burnt out were an odd failure.

Oh, and they mentioned working on the Viewliner Diner prototype, but I'm not sure if that means the one car or if they're also building more.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, July 26, 2010 4:53 PM

aegrotatio
From what I understand, the electrical panel needs and is getting a complete redesign.  The advancement of a couple decades of electrical thinking are hopefully being applied

Now days everything possible is done to home run electrical runs as well as telephone and TV.

 

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Posted by BostonTrainGuy on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:43 AM

I just read that toilets in individual roomettes will be eliminated.  That's good, but additional bathrooms will take up revenue space.  Attendants use of new baggage/dorms will free up one space, but shower and two new bathrooms will result in the net loss of at least one room I would guess. 

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Posted by NKP guy on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:40 AM

    Will someone explain why the possible elimination (pardon the pun) of toilets in roomettes is "a good thing"?  It's a great mistake!  The privacy of one's own room & bathroom is a major factor for many people in deciding to take the train and get a room. 

   One friend of mine was all set to take the Capitol Limited to DC until learning there was no toilet in the downstairs family bedroom (only bedroom left).  So now she's flying instead.  I think men fail to realize this is a very important issue to female passengers

   As the population ages there will be more demand, not less, for in-room toilets.  Cripes, even in 1950 we had them!  Now we won't?  Didn't we learn from the Superliner roomettes?

   Which do you think will matter more to passengers who are considering riding long distance trains?  In-room toilets or re-designed wall switches?

 

 

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Posted by aegrotatio on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:07 AM

The in-room toilets that I saw provide no privacy unless you make everyone leave the roomette and pull every corner of the curtains to get some privacy (also true on Superliners).

 Perhaps it's also a maintenance problem.

Common restrooms are horrid at the halfway point on any trip.  Yuck.  Blame the railroad unions.

 

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Posted by BostonTrainGuy on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:46 AM

Even though the toilets in the room are very convenient for single travelers, my last Viewliner roomette experience was traveling with my daughter, and it was not something we wanted to use.  So it meant a long walk to the coaches to find an unoccuppied and clean toilet.

Also, sleeping with your head next to a toilet is not exactly the most desirable situation in my opinion. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:55 PM

BostonTrainGuy

Even though the toilets in the room are very convenient for single travelers, my last Viewliner roomette experience was traveling with my daughter, and it was not something we wanted to use.  So it meant a long walk to the coaches to find an unoccuppied and clean toilet.

Also, sleeping with your head next to a toilet is not exactly the most desirable situation in my opinion. 

As to in-room toilets, they are convenient. On our trip this spring, we had two day-time legs: New Orleans-Memphis and Denver-Salt Lake City. Because of personal needs, we reserved a bedroom (Superliner) for each leg. Previously, we had used roomettes (a roomette cost less than a lower-level coach seat), but felt we needed something closer this year. Since a roomette normally holds only two people comfortably, it can be convenient for one to leave the room at times.

As to odors at night, I did not notice any either night that I spent in a Viewliner roomette. It is not necessary that you sleep with your head by the head; the berth can be made up with your feet by the head. 

Currently, each Viewliner sleeper has a shower for the use of roomette passengers.

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Posted by DavidBragdon on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:05 PM

The in-room lavatories need to go. Sitting and sleeping in the same confined space where one urinates and defecates is disgusting, particularly when two people are sharing a room.  The additional plumbing must also be expensive.  Far better to have common toilets down the hall, provided they are cleaned to a higher standard than Amtrak usually attains.

 

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Posted by conrailman on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:25 PM

Do your thing in Bathrooms and get out.

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Posted by dakotafred on Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:13 PM

What is really needed is a return to the old hopper toilets. Which is more unhealthful and disgusting, a little mess on the ROW for section men and trespassers to watch out for or dozens of cramped, filthy, odorous chemical toilets on the train for the enjoyment of the paying customers? 

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:53 PM

dakotafred
What is really needed is a return to the old hopper toilets

Then, if one hopper has a problem, the rest of them in the car will not be affected. Twice, on our trip this past spring, the disposal system in the car we were in (on two separate trains) had a problem--and passengers had to go into another car and use the toilets there.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 27, 2010 5:20 AM
Flying also means use of common toilets, although the time of course is a lot shorter.   But on many flights I found two few toilets provided for the number of passengers in the coach section, and this can result in actual pain because of the need to wait.
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Posted by CG9602 on Friday, August 27, 2010 8:03 AM
dakotafred

What is really needed is a return to the old hopper toilets. Which is more unhealthful and disgusting, a little mess on the ROW for section men and trespassers to watch out for or dozens of cramped, filthy, odorous chemical toilets on the train for the enjoyment of the paying customers? 

Someone please refresh my memory: Why did Amtrak do away with the older Hopper toilets to begin with ?

I understand that it had something to do with a fisherman getting soiled soiled upon in FL, and the resulting lawsuit, but Amtrak won that lawsuit.
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Posted by dakotafred on Saturday, August 28, 2010 5:11 PM

CG9602
Someone please refresh my memory: Why did Amtrak do away with the older Hopper toilets to begin with ?

It's been a long time, but I doubt it was Amtrak's call, running as they did mostly on host roads. It has, rather, the whiff of something federal regulators would do.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, August 28, 2010 5:43 PM

 Someone please refresh my memory: Why did Amtrak do away with the older Hopper toilets to begin with ?

Actually had to do something whith the EPA. However certain cities and National parks did not allow there use as well?

The present vacuum type toilets that are used in aircraft made after the 1980s seem to have migrated to AMTRAK as well. Flush hopper types were used before that time and some airplanes had all sink water go into the hopper but not any more.. It all comes down to how much useage and how often serviced. From my airline experience it is about 12 Hrs for a passenger useage of about 100 persons. However that may be different for long range Aircraft. Usually airlines service at main hubs after about 6 - 8 Hrs flying time. We have all heard of the problems of airplanes held too long on the tarmac.

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Posted by aegrotatio on Saturday, August 28, 2010 10:40 PM

I believe they wanted to match their plumbing to the much more widely available aircraft and watercraft vacuum systems which the hoppers weren't well suited to since they weren't really designed to accept the back-pressure of a vacuum system.  I'm assuming that by "hopper toilet" you're referring to the old toilets that dump by gravity into holding tanks, whether by retrofit from a "dump on the tracks" system or a newer design that uses holding tanks which I think this industry refers to as "retention tanks."

 I'm too out-of-sorts to look it up, but a tour bus was recently fined several thousand dollars for dumping their tank on a metal grate bridge that just happened to have a boat under it.  It involved someone famous.

 

 

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Posted by dakotafred on Sunday, August 29, 2010 6:52 AM

aegrotatio
I'm assuming that by "hopper toilet" you're referring to the old toilets that dump by gravity into holding tanks, whether by retrofit from a "dump on the tracks" system or a newer design that uses holding tanks which I think this industry refers to as "retention tanks."

I intended the toilets that flushed directly onto the ROW. Perhaps "hopper toilet" is the wrong designation for these.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, August 29, 2010 4:47 PM

dakotafred

aegrotatio
I'm assuming that by "hopper toilet" you're referring to the old toilets that dump by gravity into holding tanks, whether by retrofit from a "dump on the tracks" system or a newer design that uses holding tanks which I think this industry refers to as "retention tanks."

I intended the toilets that flushed directly onto the ROW. Perhaps "hopper toilet" is the wrong designation for these.

Or, perhaps, hoppers that needed to be cleaned out manually? Such facilities were in existence on some commuter equipment, as I recall. Though, when one says, "hopper toilets," I do think of dumping directly on the real estate.

Johnny

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Posted by travelingengineer on Sunday, August 29, 2010 5:53 PM

In my view, and in that of others here, the small roomettes with an enclosed toilet is too ghastly to consider, yet this type of accommodation is common on the Viewliners which apparently are mostly on the East Coast routes.  Roomettes are cramped as it is.

The roomettes on the Superliner sleeping cars are also terribly cramped, often requiring dressing in the aisles until the beds are finally taken up.  For those that can only afford the roomette accommodation (instead of the full bedroom), it seems better to provide some actual floor space for standing, dressing, etc. when the beds are down.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, August 29, 2010 10:27 PM

travelingengineer
In my view, and in that of others here, the small roomettes with an enclosed toilet is too ghastly to consider, yet this type of accommodation is common on the Viewliners which apparently are mostly on the East Coast routes.  Roomettes are cramped as it is.

In my estimation, the original roomettes were superior to Amtrak's "roomettes," (both Superliner and Viewliner).The seat was wide enough for two people sit on it, and if neither person were too big, two people could sleep in the berth. However, to use the toilet (which emptied directly to the real estate) it was necessary to raise the bed if it were down (imagine racing to get to the toilet should you become sick in the night). Most of the roomettes were so furnished that it was necessary to back into the aisle before raising or lowering the bed; there was a curtain that the passenger closed so there would be privacy when so backing. The beds in some of the later roomettes were cutaway at the bottom so there was room to stand inside the room while raising or lowering the bed. And, the berths had innerspring mattresses.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 30, 2010 3:26 AM

Most of us were happy to put up with the various inconveniences noted just to have a very comfortable bed to sleep in.   Even the hard mattresses of the slumber/sleeper-coaches were not so bad as to discourage the extra cost over a reclining coach seat.   I never had any complaints about any Amtrak sleeping accomodations, assuming things were working properly.   To me, some of the complaints noted above seem to come from people who have never spent more than five hours in the center seat of coach class three abrest seating on a jet or other commercial air line.

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, August 30, 2010 7:09 AM
travelingengineer

In my view, and in that of others here, the small roomettes with an enclosed toilet is too ghastly to consider, yet this type of accommodation is common on the Viewliners which apparently are mostly on the East Coast routes.  Roomettes are cramped as it is.

The roomettes on the Superliner sleeping cars are also terribly cramped, often requiring dressing in the aisles until the beds are finally taken up.  For those that can only afford the roomette accommodation (instead of the full bedroom), it seems better to provide some actual floor space for standing, dressing, etc. when the beds are down.

The roomettes in the 10-6 sleepers were designed so that you could get changed standing on the bed. There was over 6' of space from the top of the mattress to the ceiling and the luggage shelve was easily reachable from that position.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, August 30, 2010 7:22 AM

aegrotatio

I believe they wanted to match their plumbing to the much more widely available aircraft and watercraft vacuum systems which the hoppers weren't well suited to since they weren't really designed to accept the back-pressure of a vacuum system.  I'm assuming that by "hopper toilet" you're referring to the old toilets that dump by gravity into holding tanks, whether by retrofit from a "dump on the tracks" system or a newer design that uses holding tanks which I think this industry refers to as "retention tanks."

 I'm too out-of-sorts to look it up, but a tour bus was recently fined several thousand dollars for dumping their tank on a metal grate bridge that just happened to have a boat under it.  It involved someone famous.

This? http://www.uswaternews.com/archives/arcrights/5davematt2.html

 

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Posted by travelingengineer on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 12:22 PM

Good comments, "daveklepper."  Yes, Amtrak sleeping car accommodations absolutely offer a more pleasant and certainly more comfortable place to sit and sleep, along with the other amenities (free meals, newspapers, personal service, beverages, etc.).  If affordable and time is not a constraint, this is the only way to travel.

As for as myself, I have traveled thousands of miles on airplanes and have finally given up totally on that kind of travel, regardless of purpose.  Air travel is inhumane, though does get you to your destination quick.

Amtrak coach seats are fairly inexpensive, but (again as you say) you never know who is going to be located next to you for perhaps days at a time:  cell phones, unsupervised children, computer keyboard clickety-clack, "excuse me, can I get past you to the aisle, please," disagreeable seatmates, various smells, rest rooms and even showers that leave much to be desired especially after a few days.

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Posted by dakotafred on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 5:24 PM

travelingengineer said: "Amtrak coach seats are fairly inexpensive,but again... you never know who is going to be located next to you ..."

Yes. Unfortunately, too many people have become such slobs, in their lack of consideration for others and in their personal dress, that coach travel by any mode is *** near intolerable. Older folks will remember when men wore sports jackets or suits to ride coach on the trains. Today, many coach passengers, whether air or rail, look like they belong on the bus. For me, if I can't afford or don't want to go first class, I drive. Period.

An aside: Is anybody else having trouble using the QUOTE function on the new forum? Just now I was unable to mechanically excerpt just the single line I wanted from travelingengineer.

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 5:59 PM

travelingengineer

Good comments, "daveklepper."  Yes, Amtrak sleeping car accommodations absolutely offer a more pleasant and certainly more comfortable place to sit and sleep, along with the other amenities (free meals, newspapers, personal service, beverages, etc.).  If affordable and time is not a constraint, this is the only way to travel.

As for as myself, I have traveled thousands of miles on airplanes and have finally given up totally on that kind of travel, regardless of purpose.  Air travel is inhumane, though does get you to your destination quick.

Amtrak coach seats are fairly inexpensive, but (again as you say) you never know who is going to be located next to you for perhaps days at a time:  cell phones, unsupervised children, computer keyboard clickety-clack, "excuse me, can I get past you to the aisle, please," disagreeable seatmates, various smells, rest rooms and even showers that leave much to be desired especially after a few days.

Worst one is snoring!

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Posted by travelingengineer on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 6:45 PM

It seems that most every coach passenger these days boards with their own pillow(s) and blankets (and maybe teddy bears).  Then in coach section, it looks like a high school "sleep-over."  On the Southwest Chief last year, I noted that the Observation Car at night was populated by those who could not, or chose not to, sleep in their own chair - Is this "legal?"  In the Observation Car, there are some multi-seats that can at least let you lie prone.  But, if you can only afford coach, then you gotta do what you can.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 7:38 PM

BostonTrainGuy

Anyone have any idea of what these new layouts are?

http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Pages/DocsSpecs.aspx

 The news wire of Aug 31 referring to Superliner layouts also has the proposed layout of the new "Viewliner" layout. Coach 70 seats, Business - 60, Cab car 68 seats as a NEC coach. Will be tested to 135MPH with operation speed of 125 MPH. 

http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Pages/DocsSpecs.aspx

This layout does not give any reference to the present order of 130 cars announced earlier.

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