If a RR like the BNSF electrified there transcon the electric power in the NE would not be able to be used due to the height necessary for the Catenary?

[passengerfan]

Meaning Amtrak would onviously have to purchase new power for just that line. To clear the Auto Racks and double stacks the pantographs would have to be much taller than those presently used in the NE corridor? And would the power be different 25K or maybe 30K this would lead to a substantial investment by Amtrak in new power alone that would not be able to be used on any other part of the system. I realize that the present route of the SWC that travels over the old Santa Fe from Kansas City to where it rejoins the transcon would not be electrified but for the SW Chief they would have to keep electrics for service in New Mexico to LA and from Kansas City to Chicago. But is it not rumored that once Abo Canyon double tracking is completed that the SW Chief will probably be rerouted to the Transcon unless Amtrak wants to maintain the old route at ther own expense. Something I can't see Amtrak doing. It certainly will be interesting to see what type of electrics will be deployed on the transcon by Amtrak if it is electrified.

Al - in - Stockton 

[daveklepper]

If BNSF electrified it would be for the intensive freight service they operate.  They would not electrify the line through La Junta and Alberquerque.   Amtrak would continue running with diesels, because it would be cost prohibitive to electrify in Union Station just for one train each way each day, and changing power wastes time.  The analogie is that Providence and Worcester, CSX, and NS freight trains use diesel power on Amtrak's NEC.

[oltmannd]

passengerfan

Meaning Amtrak would onviously have to purchase new power for just that line. To clear the Auto Racks and double stacks the pantographs would have to be much taller than those presently used in the NE corridor? And would the power be different 25K or maybe 30K this would lead to a substantial investment by Amtrak in new power alone that would not be able to be used on any other part of the system. I realize that the present route of the SWC that travels over the old Santa Fe from Kansas City to where it rejoins the transcon would not be electrified but for the SW Chief they would have to keep electrics for service in New Mexico to LA and from Kansas City to Chicago. But is it not rumored that once Abo Canyon double tracking is completed that the SW Chief will probably be rerouted to the Transcon unless Amtrak wants to maintain the old route at ther own expense. Something I can't see Amtrak doing. It certainly will be interesting to see what type of electrics will be deployed on the transcon by Amtrak if it is electrified.

Al - in - Stockton 

For a single train pair, I'd think the logistics, utilization, first mile/last mile and maintenance considerations of trying to support electric power for the SW Chief would swamp any potential benefit. I'd think it would be diesels under the wire.

[timz]

It would help if someone would spend a day at West Trenton or Norristown and check whatever stack trains pass to see if they have stacked 9-ft-6-in containers under the catenary there.

[blue streak 1]

passengerfan

To clear the Auto Racks and double stacks the pantographs would have to be much taller than those presently used in the NE corridor?

Al:  Pantographs come  in all sizes. There is a supplier that supplies PANs with an operational reach of 2.5 - 3 meters  == 8.2 ft+. So if the optimum CAT height is 23'6" (not really necessary but allows more room for MOW equipment) the required height may be 20'2" + 10" flashover clearance = 21'); If CAT height of 23'6" is installed where possible then mounts holding the PAN on any motor or a dual mode loco are only 15' 3" above rail.  I do not know the operational reach of present AMTRAK PANs measured as height above rail.

 

passengerfan

And would the power be different 25K or maybe 30K

All new equipment ordered in the last ten years both motors and EMUs can operate on any frequency or voltage. This is accomplished by having a multi tap transformer with automatic and manual switching to provide the correct voltage to an full phase rectifier, the the rectified voltage going to inverters to provide 1. -  variable frequency to AC traction motors, 2. - 60Hz 480V for HEP, 3. - other small inverters to provide 110/220V for various motor auxilarys (compressors, radios, fans, blowers, etc).

(note: I believe that early AEM-7DCs took their DC power from the big rectifiers for traction motor controls). 25Kv seems to be a good voltage because anything higher than 33Kv requires wire to be classed as transmission lines.  The rest of the world uses 25 Kv 50 Hz prevelant and a few 60 Hz installations. This allows for a large supplier base as 50 Hz transformers can work easily on 60Hz.

In addition the new Metro North M-8s take third rail DC and provide that DC to the inverters.

(note: I believe that early AEM-7DCs took the DC power from the main rectifiers for traction motor controls). 

 

 realize that the present route of the SWC that travels over the old Santa Fe from Kansas City to where it rejoins the transcon would not be electrified but for the SW Chief they would have to keep electrics for service in New Mexico to LA and from Kansas City to Chicago.

If and it is a big if  --  the new dual mode locos that NJ Transis ordered work out those type DMs could be used on this route.

 

[narig01]

 Dumb question. How much clearance does one need between 25Kv or 30Kv wire & the top of a railcar?

Thx IGN

[BNSFwatcher]

N. B.:  BNSF has more than one "Transcon".  The "Hi Line" could be considered two, with separate PDX and SEA distinations, not to mention the Stevens Pass route.  The trackage rights add a fourth, or fifth, whatever...

I don't think there is a limit as to how high a pantograph cqn reach.  Anyhoo, don't hold your breath.

[Sawtooth500]

The transcon being referred to is the old Santa Fe transcon. Speaking of which, is that why the Southwest Chief doesn't use the original route, because of the single track at Abo pass? And when that double tracking is complete, it was mentioned that Amtrak would have to reroute or maintain the old route at its own expense. Does that mean the intention is then for Amtrak to reroute and the portions of the current Southwest Chief route will be abandoned?

[jrbernier]

  IIRC, the Amtrak SW Chief uses the 'original' main line via Raton Pass.  The AT&SF 'Super Chief' used this route as well.  The 'freight' routing is via Abo Pass.  The State of New Mexico has purchased a lot of the original route an I assume Amtrak will continue to use the Raton line for the near future.

Jim Bernier

[daveklepper]

And the reason they use it is the reason the Super Chief and most Sante Fe top passsenger trains used it:  places where people want to board and leave passsenger trains.  Alberqueae and Raton and La Hunta, with connections to Sante Fe, draw more passengers than Amerillo.   And the scenery is better too.

[diningcar]

Politics will heavily influence any attempt to move the SWC to the Transcon line through Amarillo.

The current route through Dodge City, KS, La Junta and Trinidad, CO, Raton, Las Vegas and Lamy with the Santa Fe connection has historically been the former Santa Fe Railway primary passenger route to AZ and CA. The State of NM bought, or is buying, that line south from Trinidad so they would vigerously oppose any change , as would Kansas and Colorado polititicians.

This will be interesting if AMTRAK needs money to maintain the route to its standards when BNSF does not need that criteria for its freight operations.