In 2003 I went from Fullerton, CA to Philly via the Southwest Chief and the Three Rivers Express (?). I took my wife and my 13 year-old grandson. We went coach the whole way. I loved it. My wife did not. She is a "destination" person where I like the trip as much. The boy was bored to death until he met some kids his age and taught them to play poker. Heh heh! During our layover in Chicago we stashed our luggage and went up the Sears Tower.
After sightseeing using transit in Philly (I grew up there) we rented a car to go to two family reunions Gwynedd and Richboro, then drive to West Point, Long Island, and, finally NYC. We turned in the car and stayed for 3 days near Times Square. The Day Lines boat trip around Manhattan, the Empire State Building, the WTC ground zero, the Staten Island Ferry, etc etc. kept us busy.
We took the Lakeshore Limited back to Chicago and the Chief home. By then even I was tired of riding a train.
Jack
daveklepperI think you should discuss the whole trip with the handicapped-access Amtrak people first.
Yes. You must speak with the Amtrak rep on the phone. The handicapped-access reservations are only available by phone.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I think you should discuss the whole trip with the handicapped-access Amtrak people first. If you are in the handicappped accessible room in the sleeper, your car attendent will probably be glad to provide room service for you, and you will not need to go to and from the dining car.
Another very bold idea: Contact the private-car-owners' association. There may be a private car owner who is traveling the route and would be happy to have a "share of expenses" passenger on board. This is particularly true if you are a veteran of USA military service. And even more true if your disability is related to your service in the military. The car would probably be on the rear of a regular Amtrak train.
schlimm Sam1: Sounds like interesting trips for us retired folks. Are meals still included if you book a sleeper?
Sam1: Sounds like interesting trips for us retired folks. Are meals still included if you book a sleeper?
Meals are included in the cost of sleeper accommodations. Usually they are taken in the dinning car, but on two trains a box breakfast is served. Alcoholic beverages are not included with the meals. They must be purchased separately.
On the Texas Eagle departing San Antonio, because the dinning car crew does not get on the train until Austin, first class passengers get a box breakfast. It was lousy the last time that I had it. Also, if I remember correctly, passengers to Portland on the Empire Builder get a box breakfast because the train is split at Spokane, with the dinning car running to Seattle and the Lounge car running to Portland.
I recall the Superliners are wheelchair accessible, with accommodations on the lower level. So you could get the California Zephyr from Reno to Chicago and change for a train to wherever in Indiana. Looks like one-way in January would cost 110.50 + 262 if you had a roomette. Here is a link on accessibility:
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer/Page/1241210579564/1237405732517
Hello All:
My last train ride was in 1959 Uncle SAm sent me on a train to boot camp at Great Lakes. I would love to take another one before I kick off. My problem is I am stuck in a power chair. How does this all pan out for me to go from Reno or western Ca. to Indana or it could be St. Louis and bower a car from family to finish te run. Also I will need Oxygen 24-7.
Thanks Fat Man
schlimm Why would you want drive that distance since air is so much cheaper? Even with the car rental at LAX @ $450 - 600 for a week, it sounds like a more pleasant trip by air and more time to spend at the destination, whether sightseeing or with friends/family.
Why would you want drive that distance since air is so much cheaper? Even with the car rental at LAX @ $450 - 600 for a week, it sounds like a more pleasant trip by air and more time to spend at the destination, whether sightseeing or with friends/family.
For most people flying cross country and renting a car is the best option. I did the cost comparison because of a prior post and as a matter of interest.
Two years ago I took the train from Dallas to Milwaukee, stayed one night, and then went on to Portland on the Empire Builder. It was a great trip. I went during the first week of December, which is a good time to travel for folks who are looking for great fares, plenty of elbow room on the train, and a winter wonderland. Last year I did the same thing from Denver to Emeryville on the CZ. This year I am taking the Texas Eagle to LA, where I will spend two days, before going onto Portland on the Coast Starlight. This makes good sense for this rail buff, but it doesn't for most people, and I know it. It is not a good trip for people who don't care for train travel or people who are in a hurry to get there. For me the getting there is as much fun as being there.
Curling up in my roomette after dark, with a bottle (half) of wine and a good book is as good as it gets. During the day I enjoy watching the scenery float past the lounge car's big windows or my room and chatting with other passengers in the dinning and lounge cars.
One could take Greyhound from Pittsburgh to LA for $106 if he or she buys a 21 day advance purchase ticket. The quickest bus runs from Pittsburgh to LA in 27 hours and 30 minutes and requires two transfers. By comparison, the train requires 43 hours and involves one transfer. Part of the greater time required for the train is accounted for by the long layover in Chicago. There is one train a day from Pittsburgh and Chicago. By comparison, Greyhound has four offerings per day.
Meals at the bus rest stops would cost about $62 compared to $78 on the train. Clearly, the cost of the meals could differ significantly. And my wine, which I always buy on the train, would add to the cost. These figures are for one way and would be approximately double for round trip.
The best one way fares that I could find for comparison are $174.50 on Southwest Airlines, $106 on Greyhound, and $193 on Amtrak, plus applicable taxes. Clearly, the best economical and time bet is to fly. This is why Amtrak's long distance trains carry less than per cent of the intercity travelers in the U.S. Economically they don't make any sense. But as long as they run, I'll be on them. After all, I am paying for them, as is every other federal tax payer, so I might as well us them.
The cost to rent a compact car in LA from Budget would be $454.65 for a week. In addition, I have begun taking the loss damage waiver because of an insight that I gained from a personal financial advisor. Although my auto insurance would cover an accident (liability and damage) in a rental car, it seems the rental car companies are dunning their customers involved in an accident for the opportunity cost that is lost to them whilst the car is out of service for repairs or a replacement vehicle is being delivered. And my insurance would not cover this charge. The loss damage waiver insurance would run the price of this rental up to $699.58.
Sam1 jeaton PA? to the west coast? Say Pittsburgh to LA. About 5000 miles driving round trip. At 20MPG and $2.60 per gallon gas would run about $650. A round trip coach ticket on Amtrak in January is $386. (Didn't check an air fare-could be less). Add cost of food/lodging/maybe rental car/other out of pocket car cost (oil change?)/number of travelers?/ If I was traveling alone, I would probably take the train. I figure my full my auto cost at about 50 cents a mile, because I keep them until they max out mileage wise rather than sit and grow old. Of course flying takes much less time and might even be cheaper, but being retired, I have time. The bottom line though-these days, no travel is cheap. (Except maybe on a bus?) Putting a sharper pencil to the cost of driving compared to taking Amtrak from Pittsburgh to LA and back produced a result that I had not anticipated. The fully allocated cost to drive my Toyota Corolla is 23.65 cents per mile. Most people only consider the cost of the fuel when comparing driving to an alternative. However, as accountants know, all costs are variable in the long run and, therefore, should be included for comparative analysis purposes. According to MapQuest, it is 4,872 miles from Pittsburgh to Los Angeles and back. The fully allocated cost to complete the trip in my Corolla would be $1,152.23. Tolls are not included. Factoring in fuel stops, meal stops, traffic slow downs, etc., I could cover comfortably 600 miles per day. It would take me roughly eight days for the round trip. It would require six nights in a motel, assuming that the fourth and eighth nights are spent in LA destination and back home in Pittsburgh. At an average cost of $80 per night, the motel tab would be $480. My meals would run me approximately $32.50 per day, and I would have eight days of Enroute meal expenses to pick-up. The cost of the meals would be $260, thereby bringing the total cost of driving to $1,892.23. If another adult came along, the cost would be $2,152.23. If two kids came with us, the cost would be $3,152.23, which includes two motel rooms as opposed to only one room for two adults. A round trip coach ticket on Amtrak would be $386, before any discounts, departing and returning Pittsburgh mid-week during an off-peak period. I would eat 13 meals in the dinning car. If I selected from the middle of the menu, it would cost an average of $11.21 per meal or a total of $145.73. This includes a 15 per cent gratuity. If I ate in the lounge car, the cost would be a less. The cost of travel in coach for me would be $531.73 compared to $1,892.23 to drive. If another adult accompanied me on the train, the rail fare would be $772 for the two of us, and the meals would be $291.46, bringing the total cost to $1,063.46, compared to $2,152.23 to drive. If another adult and two kids went on the train, the rail fare would be $1,158, and the meal expenses would be $582.92, bringing the total cost to $1,740.92, compared to $3,152.23 to drive. The cost advantage of the train over driving is $1,360.50 for one person, $1,088.71 for two, and $1,411.31 for four. The cost of public transport and/or a rental car in LA could wipe out a significant amount of the train advantage. A sleeper from Pittsburgh to LA and back would cost $1,148, $1,534, and $3,247 for one, two, or four compared to $1,892.23, $2,152.23, and 3, 152.23 to drive. The cost advantage for the train is $744.23 for one, and $618.23 for two, but the car trumps the train for four people by $94.77. Again, the spreads could be altered significantly by the cost of local transit and/or a rental car. The outcomes for a shorter trip, say Pittsburgh to Philadelphia, is a different story. The cost to drive for one, two or four passengers would be $181.37, $196.37 and $226.37. Costs assume one lunch per person and tolls on the PA Turnpike. The cost on the Pennsylvanian would be $109, $218, and $342. For this trip the train beats driving for one person ($72.37), but the car is a winner for two or more people ($21.63 and $115.63). Again, public transit and/or a rental car could wipe out most if not all of the train cost advantage in the first scenario. A pricy SUV driven 10 to 15 per cent over the speed limits would change these scenarios significantly. Nevertheless, I am surprised by the numbers for the long haul trips. I thought that the train would only have had the advantage for one person. And I never thought a sleeper would be competitive with driving. It pays to do the analysis. Amtrak's fares during the summer and other peak travel periods would be higher than the fares shown in this analysis.
jeaton PA? to the west coast? Say Pittsburgh to LA. About 5000 miles driving round trip. At 20MPG and $2.60 per gallon gas would run about $650. A round trip coach ticket on Amtrak in January is $386. (Didn't check an air fare-could be less). Add cost of food/lodging/maybe rental car/other out of pocket car cost (oil change?)/number of travelers?/ If I was traveling alone, I would probably take the train. I figure my full my auto cost at about 50 cents a mile, because I keep them until they max out mileage wise rather than sit and grow old. Of course flying takes much less time and might even be cheaper, but being retired, I have time. The bottom line though-these days, no travel is cheap. (Except maybe on a bus?)
PA? to the west coast? Say Pittsburgh to LA. About 5000 miles driving round trip. At 20MPG and $2.60 per gallon gas would run about $650. A round trip coach ticket on Amtrak in January is $386. (Didn't check an air fare-could be less). Add cost of food/lodging/maybe rental car/other out of pocket car cost (oil change?)/number of travelers?/
If I was traveling alone, I would probably take the train. I figure my full my auto cost at about 50 cents a mile, because I keep them until they max out mileage wise rather than sit and grow old. Of course flying takes much less time and might even be cheaper, but being retired, I have time.
The bottom line though-these days, no travel is cheap. (Except maybe on a bus?)
Putting a sharper pencil to the cost of driving compared to taking Amtrak from Pittsburgh to LA and back produced a result that I had not anticipated.
The fully allocated cost to drive my Toyota Corolla is 23.65 cents per mile. Most people only consider the cost of the fuel when comparing driving to an alternative. However, as accountants know, all costs are variable in the long run and, therefore, should be included for comparative analysis purposes.
According to MapQuest, it is 4,872 miles from Pittsburgh to Los Angeles and back. The fully allocated cost to complete the trip in my Corolla would be $1,152.23. Tolls are not included.
Factoring in fuel stops, meal stops, traffic slow downs, etc., I could cover comfortably 600 miles per day. It would take me roughly eight days for the round trip. It would require six nights in a motel, assuming that the fourth and eighth nights are spent in LA destination and back home in Pittsburgh. At an average cost of $80 per night, the motel tab would be $480.
My meals would run me approximately $32.50 per day, and I would have eight days of Enroute meal expenses to pick-up. The cost of the meals would be $260, thereby bringing the total cost of driving to $1,892.23. If another adult came along, the cost would be $2,152.23. If two kids came with us, the cost would be $3,152.23, which includes two motel rooms as opposed to only one room for two adults.
A round trip coach ticket on Amtrak would be $386, before any discounts, departing and returning Pittsburgh mid-week during an off-peak period. I would eat 13 meals in the dinning car. If I selected from the middle of the menu, it would cost an average of $11.21 per meal or a total of $145.73. This includes a 15 per cent gratuity. If I ate in the lounge car, the cost would be a less. The cost of travel in coach for me would be $531.73 compared to $1,892.23 to drive.
If another adult accompanied me on the train, the rail fare would be $772 for the two of us, and the meals would be $291.46, bringing the total cost to $1,063.46, compared to $2,152.23 to drive. If another adult and two kids went on the train, the rail fare would be $1,158, and the meal expenses would be $582.92, bringing the total cost to $1,740.92, compared to $3,152.23 to drive.
The cost advantage of the train over driving is $1,360.50 for one person, $1,088.71 for two, and $1,411.31 for four. The cost of public transport and/or a rental car in LA could wipe out a significant amount of the train advantage.
A sleeper from Pittsburgh to LA and back would cost $1,148, $1,534, and $3,247 for one, two, or four compared to $1,892.23, $2,152.23, and 3, 152.23 to drive. The cost advantage for the train is $744.23 for one, and $618.23 for two, but the car trumps the train for four people by $94.77. Again, the spreads could be altered significantly by the cost of local transit and/or a rental car.
The outcomes for a shorter trip, say Pittsburgh to Philadelphia, is a different story. The cost to drive for one, two or four passengers would be $181.37, $196.37 and $226.37. Costs assume one lunch per person and tolls on the PA Turnpike. The cost on the Pennsylvanian would be $109, $218, and $342. For this trip the train beats driving for one person ($72.37), but the car is a winner for two or more people ($21.63 and $115.63). Again, public transit and/or a rental car could wipe out most if not all of the train cost advantage in the first scenario.
A pricy SUV driven 10 to 15 per cent over the speed limits would change these scenarios significantly. Nevertheless, I am surprised by the numbers for the long haul trips. I thought that the train would only have had the advantage for one person. And I never thought a sleeper would be competitive with driving. It pays to do the analysis.
Amtrak's fares during the summer and other peak travel periods would be higher than the fares shown in this analysis.
Nice work. I didn't feel like crunching the numbers for a hypothetical.
Compare to your vehicle, my Pacific gets up to 21 MPG on the road.
Needless to add, many intangibles go into play. I max out driving about 600 for a day, and that is a stretch and two days of that is about all I am willing to do. I am looking at a 1500 mile trip next fall. A car won't be needed at the destination, train will be a ride and drive of some distance and the scheduling is not good. Chances are I will fly, no matter where the numbers are at.
That's me. For anyone else, the expense, purposes for the trip and a long list of other items will dictate the choice.
By the way, my all time favorite way to travel was on the corporate jet I could ride when it going where I needed to be. Nothing like skipping a plane change at Hartfield, O'hare and any other hub. And that was before "homeland security".
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Factoring in fuel stops, meal stops, traffic slow downs, etc., I could cover comfortably 600 miles per day. It would take me roughly eight days for the round trip. It would require six nights in a motel, assuming that the fourth and eighth nights are spent in LA and back home in Pittsburgh. At an average cost of $80 per night, the motel tab would be $480.
TomDiehl The other thing to consider is how far in advance you're trying to book a train ticket. The colser you get to the departure date, the higher the fare will be, and the faster it sells out, the faster the price goes up.
The other thing to consider is how far in advance you're trying to book a train ticket. The colser you get to the departure date, the higher the fare will be, and the faster it sells out, the faster the price goes up.
Air fares work in the same way, my wife gets good air fares because she books our vacations about four months in advance. A bus operator in the Midwest known as Megabus has carried this principle to the extreme, with a handful of $1.00 (!) fares on each trip if you book well in advance.
As many others have pointed out, long distances such as Pittsburgh to LA by rail make little sense in terms of time or price. Only a railfan who loves long rides would bother with the train.
Compare:
Air - about 8 hours on a one-stop (change planes) service - $230 RT
Train- 52 hours (one change) coach - $386 RT + food
sleeper (roomette) - $1180 RT (meals included!!)
oltmanndI've always found Amtrak's lowest coach fares about a buck cheaper than than the lowest airline fare, so you should be able to take the train for the same cost as flying. Sleeper fares are expensive, but they are very expensive to operate and Amtrak generally doesn't have any shortage of takers. If your goal is getting there, then fly. If you want the experience of the trip, then you have to way the extra cost for the sleeper against the value of the experience. Have you considered driving to Savannah and taking the day train from there to DC?
I've found that's often true also. I was booking Chicago to Washington for the holidays and found the Capital Limited was 256.00 RT (senior 217.60) coach (sleepers sold out and over 300 each way). The cheapest non-stop flights were 248.21.
sooblue The last cross country trip I took was Mpls. to LA. on the NP to Salt Lake city and the UP to LA. My return trip was on the Super Chief / El Capitan to Kansas City and the Rock to Mpls. 1967. Now I want to take my family on a new cross country trip by rail but I am turned off by the High price to travel from PA to any where west. I just can't spend the money to travel by train when I can go cheaper by auto or even by plane if I plan ahead. I looked into going by train to Orlando from DC. and choked on the $1000+ price tag. I love train travel but it's not affordable. In 1967 is was about the cheapest way to travel long distances. I must be getting on a Amtrak ticket site for those earning more then $200,000.00/year. The only way I can get a rail fix is by going on short tourist lines, fun but not cross country. Or am I doing something wrong.
The last cross country trip I took was Mpls. to LA. on the NP to Salt Lake city and the UP to LA. My return trip was on the Super Chief / El Capitan to Kansas City and the Rock to Mpls. 1967. Now I want to take my family on a new cross country trip by rail but I am turned off by the High price to travel from PA to any where west. I just can't spend the money to travel by train when I can go cheaper by auto or even by plane if I plan ahead. I looked into going by train to Orlando from DC. and choked on the $1000+ price tag.
I love train travel but it's not affordable. In 1967 is was about the cheapest way to travel long distances. I must be getting on a Amtrak ticket site for those earning more then $200,000.00/year. The only way I can get a rail fix is by going on short tourist lines, fun but not cross country. Or am I doing something wrong.
In most instances coach travel on Amtrak is less expensive for me than driving. This includes the cost of meals in the dinning car or lounge car and motel expenses if necessary. I drive a Toyota Corolla that gets approximately 35 mpg on the highway.
In most instances Amtrak's coach fares are slightly lower than corresponding airfares but not by much. However, for trips of more than three or four hours, the difference can be wiped out by the purchase of eats on the train. Except when traveling from coast to coast, one does not need to buy a meal on the airplane. Moreover, if a value is assigned to time, especially over distances of more than 250 miles, the cost of taking the train could be much higher.
As a rule booking an Amtrak sleeper will result in a much higher cost than driving or taking the plane. This is especially true during high demand periods of travel.
Whether driving or taking the train or plane is the best deal depends on many other variables. For example, if taking a train or plane means that you will need to rent a car at your destination, that needs to be included in the cost analysis. It also needs to consider how many people are traveling, where you are going, etc.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I'm curious as to how many people are in your family that you want to take on a train trip. I assume more than 2 (more than you and spouse). I agree that this can be a pricey vacation, but airlines don't seem to have many bargain fares either and professionally led "tours" are worse yet. All I can say is to plan ahead, like 6 months or more in advance, which is what I did on my last trip.
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