rjemeryFor east/west passenger traffic that stopped at North Philadelphia Station only, most of those trains also saw sections join or split off at Harrisburg for traffic from/to Philadelphia and/or Baltimore and Washington, DC.
Hmm, in all the PRR timetables that I saw I never did see a schedule that indicated that the trains that went through to NYC from the west had a section from Harrisburg to the 30th Street Station. Many did have a section that came off at Harrisburg and traveled over the Northern Central down to Baltimore and thence (after reversing direction) went on to Washington. As I recall, the standard procedure was that after detraining at North Philadelphia, you would board a train that would take you to 30th Street or into Philadelphia after you gave the stub of your ticket to the conductor. Westbound, you would show your ticket to the conductor of the train that took you up to North Philadelphia.
For a time, Amtrak took the Washington section of the Broadway Limited off the New York section in Harrisburg, added a diner lounge, and ran it via 30th Street (my experience in 1978).
Johnny
krtravelerIf someone in the marketing department were really smart about it, North Philadelphia would have been set up as a stop for the long-distance trains with corridor trains only stopping there if a passenger needed a transfer to a city not served by the LD routes. North Philly set up as the long-distance station and 30th Street being the commuter's station would have made perfect marketing sense.
You must be looking at a track map and not the surrounding area of the stations. 30th Street is closer to the current Center City and has a direct connection to Suburban Station which is right across the street from Old City Hall. As I said earlier, North Philly is in what was formerly a working class/rowhouse neighborhood, which has, unfortunately, devolved into a part of town I certainly wouldn't want to get on or off a train at any time of day. While the way you suggest may work well on a model railroad, the real ones, such as Amtrak, have to take the potential clientele into consideration.
30th Street Station actually replaced Broad Street Station as the main terminus or origin for PRR passenger traffic. The exact operational progression that saw the demise of the stub-end Broad Street Station and the rise of both the (Broad Street) stub-end Suburban Station and 30th Street Station would make interesting reading.
For east/west passenger traffic that stopped at North Philadelphia Station only, most of those trains also saw sections join or split off at Harrisburg for traffic from/to Philadelphia and/or Baltimore and Washington, DC.
RJ Emery near Santa Fe, NM
Most PRR trains to/from the west did not go to 30th Street. North Philly was the main station. As far as Amtrak is concerned today, NY-Harrisburg trains reverse at 30th St and do have a cab car so engine change/run around is not necessary. The Pennsylvanian, however (NY-Pittsburg) changes between electric and diesel at 30th Street. The locomotive comes off the South end of the train and the new one goes on the north end, thus "turning" the train around. Cab cars are not used west of Harrisburg.
DeggestyAmtrak now runs the Pittsburgh-New York and Harrisburg-New York trains into 30th Street. I do not know if the power is changed on the trains that run just to Harrisburg, but the other trains head in, the engine (diesel eb; electric wb) is cut off one end and a new engine is put on the other end (electric eb; diesel wb)--and away you go.
On my recent trip from 30th Street to NYC aboard Keystone #652, when I arrived on the platform in Philly, the train sitting there had an electric locomotive on the point in pull mode (power in front). For the next leg to NYC, the train operated in push mode (power in rear). The coach seats within at least two cars had the front half pointing forward while the rear section pointed to the rear of the car.
It is possible this train operated in push mode from Harrisburg, then backed into 30th Street, but I doubt it.
I can only comment on this one experience, but when I asked Amtrak Information before boarding, I was advised that trains are indeed backed into the station.
As a side note, for the several hours I waited in the station for #652, it was the only train running late that day in the late afternoon. The arrival/departures board displayed 20 minutes late, but it was closer to 30 minutes. Just my luck!
Sam1The loco that pulled the train to 30th Street Station was cut off and a new loco was added to the back of the train, which then became the front of the train for the run to Harrisburg.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Two weeks ago today I took a Keystone train from Penn Station, New York, to Harrisburg. The loco that pulled the train to 30th Street Station was cut off and a new loco was added to the back of the train, which then became the front of the train for the run to Harrisburg.
The seats in the coaches were bi-directional. That is to say, half the seats faced one way and the other half faced the other way. Thus, from New York to Philadelphia, I rode backwards. From Philadelphia to Harrisburg I faced forward.
There is no food service on the Keystones. However, it is permissible to bring food on the train. At least half the passengers were enjoying their morning coffee and a pastry.
Deggesty rjemery How did PRR trains between Chicago and New York make the station stop at 30th Street?From what I can see of the track layout, any e/b or w/b train would have to enter and leave 30th Street from the North, backing out of the station to rejoin the mainline. I don't recall any direction reversal on any of the long-distance trains I took in the 1950's or 1960's. Those trains may have made North Philadelphia their only stop, which seems unlikely, but I can't recall for sure just now. How does Amtrak do it today? Except as noted above,they did not stop at 30th Street, but stopped at North Philadelphia, and the passengers for or from Philadelphia could use any of the trains that ran to 30th Street or on across the river. If you were ticketed to Philadelphia, you would have the stub of your ticket which you would give to the conductor of the train you used from North Philadelphia; and I believe that you could show your ticket to the conductor if you were going to take a westbound train at North Philadelphia. Amtrak now runs the Pittsburgh-New York and Harrisburg-New York trains into 30th Street. I do not know if the power is changed on the trains that run just to Harrisburg, but the other trains head in, the engine (diesel eb; electric wb) is cut off one end and a new engine is put on the other end (electric eb; diesel wb)--and away you go. Johnny
rjemery How did PRR trains between Chicago and New York make the station stop at 30th Street?From what I can see of the track layout, any e/b or w/b train would have to enter and leave 30th Street from the North, backing out of the station to rejoin the mainline. I don't recall any direction reversal on any of the long-distance trains I took in the 1950's or 1960's. Those trains may have made North Philadelphia their only stop, which seems unlikely, but I can't recall for sure just now. How does Amtrak do it today?
How did PRR trains between Chicago and New York make the station stop at 30th Street?From what I can see of the track layout, any e/b or w/b train would have to enter and leave 30th Street from the North, backing out of the station to rejoin the mainline. I don't recall any direction reversal on any of the long-distance trains I took in the 1950's or 1960's. Those trains may have made North Philadelphia their only stop, which seems unlikely, but I can't recall for sure just now.
How does Amtrak do it today?
Amtrak now runs the Pittsburgh-New York and Harrisburg-New York trains into 30th Street. I do not know if the power is changed on the trains that run just to Harrisburg, but the other trains head in, the engine (diesel eb; electric wb) is cut off one end and a new engine is put on the other end (electric eb; diesel wb)--and away you go.
I rode the Pennsylvanian a couple years ago from 30th Street to Pittsburgh. The train stopped at 30th Stree, then backed to Zoo Interlocking to continue West. My guess is the Keystone trains do the same thing. If Amtrak adds more service like this, it may pay them to consider installing the loop South of 30th Street as originally designed.
During the high point of Pennsy passenger post WWII service, all the major NY Chicago and NY St, Louis trains had their Philly stop at North Philadelphia. I recall once boarding the westbound General there and once leaving the eastbound Broadway there. But there were about six or sevel Philadelphia - Pittsburgh expresses that originated at 30th Street after Broad Street closed. Toward the end of its operation, the all-Pullman Steel City, trains 60 and 61, did do what Amtrak does now, and reversed ends at 30th Street. And there was one PHilly - Chiago train, as mentioned.
According to my April 26, 1953 PRR Form 1 Timetable, of the 22 eastbound trains that were routed to or passed through Philadelphia, only the Philadelphia Night Express and The Statesman went to 30th Street Station. This is because they terminated in Philadelphia. They ran as one train, with a 7;40 a.m. arrival on Sunday morning as opposed to a 6:05 a.m. arrival on the other days. All the other trains stopped at North Philadelphia.
Of the 19 westbound trains that originated or passed through Philadelphia, only the Pittsburgh Night Express and The Statesman, again running as one train, used 30th Street Station.
The aforementioned trains were the Pennsy's mailline offerings. Stretching the concept of east/west a bit, the Philadelphia and Atlantic City trains, as well as the Philadelphia and Cape May trains, called at North Philadelphia and 30th Street Philadelphia. Of course, these were not commonly thought of east/west trains in the sense that the Broadway Limited was an east/west train, but Atlantic City is southeast of Philadelphia as is Cape May. And they are more east than south, at least from my perspective.
rjemeryHow did PRR trains between Chicago and New York make the station stop at 30th Street?
The original plans for 30th St included a balloon south of the station that would have allowed trains from NY to enter 30th St, depart southward, turn 180 degrees just south of the station and head back to Zoo to continue west. That track never got built, and almost all trains from NY to Pittsburgh and beyond stopped at North Philadelphia, then curved right at Zoo and headed for Paoli.
TomDiehlThe North Philadelphia station was in an area of working class rowhomes, was near the Reading RR's North Broad Street Station, and near Baker Bowl, a large National League baseball field.
timz,
Of course, trains running between Washington, DC, and New York do not have that problem. For them, it's straight through 30th Street in either direction.
rjemeryI often wondered what jobs or companies there were in the immediate area for so many commuters then to be using Amtrak, generally between North Philadelphia and Princeton Junction but sometimes New Brunswick and points north as well. For many of the evening commuters, it was standing room only on that Amtrak Clocker (I think the name given the train in the timetable).At 30th Street, I was surprised to see the Cira Centre. Very impressive building. In fact, Philadelphia seems to have undergone a renaissance since I worked downtown on Market Street.
The North Philadelphia station was in an area of working class rowhomes, was near the Reading RR's North Broad Street Station, and near Baker Bowl, a large National League baseball field.
The parts of Philadelphia around 30th Street station have gone through a major rebuilding. Many new offices, attractions, etc., in the immediate area, probably the reason 30th Street was refurbished in 1991 and is the prefered station in Philly.
timz TomDiehl it would be North and South Bound trains, they don't become East-West trains until Zoo I'm guessing the railroad thru N Philadelphia is still officially east-west.
TomDiehl it would be North and South Bound trains, they don't become East-West trains until Zoo
By timetable direction, no. The line through the Philadelphia area is no resemblance of straight. Coming from the New York area, the Northeast Corridor tracks first come through North Philadelphia (by compass direction, South-West), cross the Schuykill River, past Zoo Interlocking (which is the point that the westbound main joins the NEC), named for the Philadephia Zoo at Fairmount Park (at this point heading South-East), then swings south through the coach yards to 30th Street Station.
TomDiehlI've driven past the site of the North Philly station and I must say, it's not exactly the part of town I'd like to get on or off a train (or any other armored vehicle).
North Philly Station is Bad part of Philly.
First, on the Northeast Corridor, it would be North and South Bound trains, they don't become East-West trains until Zoo Interlocking, between North Philly and 30th Street.
Your perception is accurate. According to the 1993 Amtrak Timetable, there were 11 trains stopping at North Philly South bound and 14 North bound. I've driven past the site of the North Philly station and I must say, it's not exactly the part of town I'd like to get on or off a train (or any other armored vehicle). The 30th Street Station is easily accesed from the Schuykill Expressway, has a couple parking garages nearby, one directly connected to the station, and is a major junction with Septa, NJ Transit. 30th Street is the prefered Philadeplhia station.
At one time, I thought Amtrak's Northeast Corridor trains made frequent stops at the North Philadelphia, PA, station. I believe at some point, service to and from that station was curtailed. I was wondering approximately when that station was, for all intents and purposes, dropped from Amtrak's list of stations frequently served?
Today, between New York City and North Philadelphia, three trains w/b make the stop, while only two trains e/b make the stop. My recollection, perhaps faulty, was that in decades past much more service was provided by Amtrak at North Philadelphia. True or not?
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