Can anybody tell me why does all passanger traffic pass threw Chicago. Seems like a better route would be from say, Philadelphia Pa. Pittsburg Pa. Columbus Oh. Indianoplis In. Effingham IL. St. Louis Mo.and Kansas City Mo. This route has high populations of people on both sides of the rail line with connecting stops in most cities
History, mostly. Chicago is a much bigger city than St. Louis, and NY - Chicago passenger traffic was far greater than NY - St. Louis. So you had about 40 through expresses between those two cities, including the Broadway and the 20th Century, two of the east's fastest and most luxurious trains. I say 40 counting PRR. NYC, B&O, Erie, and DL&W+NKP. Then SF - Chi and LA - Chi traffic was much greater than SF - StL and LA - StL. So, counting both western destinations, you had about 30 through trains to Chicago, counting (SP)UP-C&NW, AT&SF, and WP-DRG&W-CB&Q. Transcontinental passenger traffic, while substantial, was far less than the traffic in both directions from Chicago. The traffic in both directions from St. Louis was about 25% of the traffic in both directions from Chicago. So transcontinental traffic gravitated to the routes with the best service. Amtrak did try to divert some traffic from Chicago by running the National Limited as a NY and Washington to Kansas City train, via St. Louis. In Kansas City, it was supposed to connect with the Sperchief (still called that). It didn't work out for various reasons, including lots of lateness and missed connections, westbound. In the old days, some people did travel via St. Louis and Kansas City.
Dave Klepper--
I had thought the name Super Chief was like 20th Century Limited, and that Amtrak was never allowed to use that name. Apparently, Santa Fe took the name away from Amtrak...
I rode the Southwest Limited and National Limited cross-country in the beginning of 1978. Superliners were in use then, and I think Santa Fe should have been proud of that train. The Chief arrived at 5:35 am, and the National Limited departed at 7:10 am. Not much of the station was open, so I waited on a very cold, dark platform. At that time, the St. Louis station was a huge, crumbling hulk--in fact, just the condition of the stations in those days probably scared away a lot of riders.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood." Daniel Burnham
Time Magazine article
Johnny Mercer wrote and Judy Garland belted out those lyrics in 1946. Now, many of the songs written about railroads are nostalgic goodbyes, but the whistles are still blowing on the Santa Fe. The railroad, which operates 13,000 miles of track from Chicago through the Southwest to California, is big, modern and—a rarity these days—profitable.
Not excessively profitable, to be sure. As a little old prospector is surprised to learn on one of the line's TV commercials, the railroad is now only one operation of Chicago-based Santa Fe Industries, Inc., which has diversified into such ventures as oil, lumber, pipeline operations and trucking. Last year railroading accounted for more than $1 billion of Santa Fe's $1.4 billion revenues, but only $51 million of the larger company's $150 million profits. Still, that was a creditable performance in an era plagued by railroad bankruptcies, and the outlook for 1976 is even better. Railroad profits for the first half of this year, Santa Fe reports, were $20.2 million. In the lagging first six months of last year the line posted earnings of only $9.9 million before making up for lost time with increased freight rates and a burst of new business in the second half.
One reason for the line's prosperity, says Santa Fe Industries President John
S. Reed, is that management is "dedicated to running a first-class railroad." To that end, the Santa Fe recently opened a $50 million switching yard in Barstow, Calif., that it claims is the most advanced in the nation; in only two moves, the "humpmaster" (who determines route priorities) can automatically switch freight cars to 16 holding stations. The railroad was also the first to install a locomotive simulator to train its engineers (who now include seven women), and it uses a computerized central information system to make the most efficient use of locomotives.
Good Track. The Santa Fe is also the only railroad to have run a freight train—the Super C—at 80 m.p.h. "To do that," says Reed, "you have to maintain your track pretty darn well." Unlike many other railroads, the Santa Fe spends money heavily on keeping its roadbed in good repair even in bad times. Says Operations Vice President Larry Cena: "You can't just be doing maintenance work when business is good. That's when you need the plant." During the Russian wheat sales boom in 1973, the Santa Fe picked up much extra business from rival roads that lost precious time doing essential repair work to prepare their tracks to handle the traffic.
Reed is determined to maintain the improvement. One indication of his fierce pride in the railroad is a recent tiff with Amtrak, the Government-sponsored corporation that has taken over operation of most U.S. passenger trains. When it took over the Santa Fe's fabled Super Chief service from Chicago to Los Angeles, Amtrak kept the name but dropped the linen napkins and fresh-cut flowers that traditionally graced the dining car. John Reed, aghast at such a decline in standards, withdrew permission for Amtrak to continue calling the Super Chief by its proud old name.
daveklepper It didn't work out for various reasons, including lots of lateness and missed connections, westbound.
The National Limited actually did quite well with it's timekeeping in the last year or so of it's existence. After it made the conversion to HEP equipment it was usually on time or close to it. I used it a few times from Indy, Columbus and Altoona to Phila in late 1978 early 1979. What did it in at the end was lack of ridership. It died with the Carter train-offs of 1979. It's former route has been chopped up. Pittsburgh to Columbus is now owned by a shortline and Columbus to Indy has been ripped up.
If you wanted to put the train back today, you'd have most likely have to route it via Alliance and Crestline, skipping Columbus, and then on CSX's former NYC/Big Four line to Indy and St. Louis. West of Crestline it's pretty crowded single track, so getting over the road would be troublesome.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
(This relates to why only hogs can cross America without changing trains in Chicago, because it's about the National Limited...)
The smoking coach on that train seemed truly luxurious. What is the fewest seats in any heritage coaches that Amtrak might have run on this route? I think there were only 24 seats, in two sections separated by fancy glass. And the bathrooms were really big also.
Maglev I had thought the name Super Chief was like 20th Century Limited, and that Amtrak was never allowed to use that name. Apparently, Santa Fe took the name away from Amtrak...
From what I heard on a PBS show on the Super Chief, Santa Fe originally allowed Amtrak to use the name, provided they continue the level of service that the Santa Fe had provided on the train. Amtrak didn't, and Santa Fe took the name back. Amtrak then renamed the train Southwest Chief.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
chatanuga From what I heard on a PBS show on the Super Chief, Santa Fe originally allowed Amtrak to use the name, provided they continue the level of service that the Santa Fe had provided on the train. Amtrak didn't, and Santa Fe took the name back. Amtrak then renamed the train Southwest Chief.
We rode the Super Chief between Chicago and Albuquerque in 1973. Westbound, we had a steward who knew how to treat his patrons; eastbound, we had a steward who was limited to his knowledge of the rulebook (do what it says, and do not do anything else).
Last year, we rode the Southwest Chief from Chicago to LA. I cannot say that the service was much better than that on other Chicago-West Coast trains.
Johnny
On December 19, 1977, I rode another train--the Inter American--from Chicago to Houston. I think it carried a through sleeper to Los Angeles from New York (?); it was equipped with Superliners, and I distincly remember an unusual transition car to the sleeper.
I know Amtrak has made a few experiments with cross-country through sleepers. For a while, the Capitol Limited would continue as the Southwwest Chief, and the cars were available for occupancy in Chicago.
Maglev On December 19, 1977, I rode another train--the Inter American--from Chicago to Houston. I think it carried a through sleeper to Los Angeles from New York (?); it was equipped with Superliners, and I distincly remember an unusual transition car to the sleeper. I know Amtrak has made a few experiments with cross-country through sleepers. For a while, the Capitol Limited would continue as the Southwwest Chief, and the cars were available for occupancy in Chicago.
The Santa Fe High-levels were superior, in my experience, to the Superliner coaches
There was, for a time, a through sleeper NY-LA that went through St. Louis and KC, but it apparently had little patronage, since it did not last long.
There was another through service by way of Chicago: Empire Builder-City of New Orleans. This one also did not last long. And, it was not always possible to occupy your through car in Chicago because it was then necessary to have attendants on duty.
Again, there was through Chicago-Florida service via Washington on the Capitol Limited and Silver Star (one car).
I guess Superliner accommodations were not sold until 1979, but I rode three Superliner trains on that trip
Train 15 departed Chicago at 4:30 pm on Sunday, December 18, 1977. I remember walking out the platform in Chicago and seeing "Superliner" written on the sides of the car. My baggage was stored downstairs. We did not go through Kansas City, although I also don't specifically remember St. Louis...
The dining or lounge car seemed to be a different height (thus Santa Fe bilevel, not Superliner), and there was a single level car with stairs; I am not certain there was a single level sleeper down there, maybe it was just the baggage car.
On our way into Houston, somebody took pot shots at our train and a window in my coach was broken. Police were waiting at the Houston station. Perhaps the Superliners were taller than the shooter liked...
oltmanndThe National Limited actually did quite well with it's timekeeping in the last year or so of it's existence. After it made the conversion to HEP equipment it was usually on time or close to it. I used it a few times from Indy, Columbus and Altoona to Phila in late 1978 early 1979. What did it in at the end was lack of ridership. It died with the Carter train-offs of 1979. It's former route has been chopped up. Pittsburgh to Columbus is now owned by a shortline and Columbus to Indy has been ripped up. If you wanted to put the train back today, you'd have most likely have to route it via Alliance and Crestline, skipping Columbus, and then on CSX's former NYC/Big Four line to Indy and St. Louis. West of Crestline it's pretty crowded single track, so getting over the road would be troublesome.
In the long run, the cost of long-distance service between New York and Kansas ("Spirit of St Louis/National Limited") may be prohibitive if the market is insubstantial. Would a shorter, more attractive service result from connections with the Eagle/Sunset and Southwest Limited? As it is, there is only one round trip between New York, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh connecting with the Capitol Limited.
I wonder if CSX through Youngstown and Akron would be faster for a Pittsburgh - Indianapolis train; but then you gotta consider whether Cleveland would have more ridership potential. CSX (xBig Four) hits some decent-size intermediate cities. Cleveland - Saint Louis and Indianapolis - Kansas City coach trains also may be feasible.
I was chagrined to learn that the connection from Dayton to Muncie had been severed.
I think the first priority should go to new or improved corridor services. Chicago would seem to generate opportunities from Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Columbus, Pontiac, Toledo, Saginaw, Cincinnati, Nashville, Louisville, Evansville, and Indianapolis. Extending #233 & #244 to Buffalo and Cleveland could work; but consolidating with the Maple Leaf may be more workable with NS. A limited Pontiac - Cleveland - Pittsburgh - Washington, DC service seems practical in conjunction with Chicago and "3C" services with extended runs to Louisville and Buffalo.
Maglev Train 15 departed Chicago at 4:30 pm on Sunday, December 18, 1977. I remember walking out the platform in Chicago and seeing "Superliner" written on the sides of the car. My baggage was stored downstairs. We did not go through Kansas City, although I also don't specifically remember St. Louis... The dining or lounge car seemed to be a different height (thus Santa Fe bilevel, not Superliner), and there was a single level car with stairs; I am not certain there was a single level sleeper down there, maybe it was just the baggage car.
Abbreviated schedule of Amtrak train #15, the Lone Star:
Lv Chicago at 4:30 pm, ar KC 12:15 am, lv KC 12:35 am, ar Oklahoma City 8:30 am, lv Oklahoma City 8:40 am, ar Ft. Worth 12:55 pm, lv Ft. Worth 1:10 pm, ar Houston 7:45 pm. Were you detoured and so bypassed Kansas City?
The baggage car and sleepers were, of course, Heritage single level cars; all other cars were probably Santa Fe Hi-Level cars (built by Budd, with nice, large restrooms on the lower level of the coaches, unlike the cubicles on Super Liner coaches). They may have been called "Superliner" but they were not; there is a world of difference between the two. According to Wickipedia (I have not had time to research the matter properly), the first Superliners (built by Pullman) were delivered in October, 1978.
Abbreviated schedule of the Inter-American:
Lv Chicago at 11:00 am, Ar St. Louis 4:20 pm, lv St. Louis 5:00 pm, ar Texarkana 3:35 am, lv Texarkana 3:50 am, ar Ft. Worth 10:05 am, lv Ft. Worth 10:20 am, ar San Antonio (at location of former MP station) 4:25 pm, lv San Antonio 4:35 pm, ar Laredo 8:45 pm.
All equipment was Amfleet (Amcoaches and Amdinette).
I, too, have ridden trains that were attacked by idiots. The first time, in 1970, I was going from Boston to Rensselaer on the B&A's connection to what was left of the overnight trains between the East and Chicago; someone broke a window in the lounge. The second time, in 1997, my wife and I were going from Montreal to Toronto on the (almost) non-stop evening train. I may have forestalled a rock drop in an Illinois city when going to Chicago from Jackson on the Panama Limited in 1973--I was in the dome, and two boys on a bridge over the track looked as though they were going to drop a rock until they saw me lift my camera.
In the latter days of the separate operation of the NH, someone commented that a certain train was, indeed, a "crack train"--every car had at least one cracked window.
I guess I got the train name wrong, I probably slept through KC; but I still think they were Superliners. On the Sunset Limited, I got food poisoning. The sandwich tasted funny but I ate it anyway. I spent a lot of time in the toilet room, and it was a cubicle. Did the Hilevel coaches have locked baggage storage downstairs? I was not aware that Amtrak used those Santa Fe cars much. Also, I think the timetable advertised a "Kachina Kafe" on the Sunset and I was disappointed it was gone in favor of standardized equipment.
Here's another historic event on that trip: The Sunset Limited arrived on time!
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