Ah, the power of negative thinking! All your negatives can be reversed if people want prosperity in their own area.
I can think of about seven reasons why that plant will never be occupied again:
1 Nobody wants to live near any kind of manufacturing plant
2. Michigan is in free fall job wise and GM and Chrysler are asking the government for handouts to stay in business (Wall Street Journal 10/27/08)
3. The union personnel cost will prohibit anyone from moving to Michigan with a large number of employees - ever hear about companies moving to non union friendly states?
4. Manufacturing consists of nothing by greedy owners according to one presidential candidate and the feds are doing everything in their power to take every bit of profit from whatever companies remain.
5. What manufacturing area is in a growth mode? answer none.
6. Railroads have an attitude of "That's the way we've always done it" or "we've never done that before" Don't look for any forward thinking from any major railroad.
7. The plant is probably obsolete in many ways - heating and cooling, haz mat problems, logistics, power. I bet it will be torn down and replaced with houses in ten or twenty years once that debaucle recovers.
But if GM is willing to sell the plant, NS can help them find a buyer.
daveklepper I have a different pont of view. I would like to see NS find another industry to use the plant. Like building light rail cars? Or low-cost prefabricated housing? Or mechanical equipment duct silencers and vibration isolators? Or solar panels? I think their marketing people are up to the challange, and I hope they try. I think the local Grand Rapids people should say to NS: Assume this facility was close to Roanoke VA, would you just let it shut down without trying to find a new operator?
I have a different pont of view. I would like to see NS find another industry to use the plant.
Like building light rail cars? Or low-cost prefabricated housing? Or mechanical equipment duct silencers and vibration isolators? Or solar panels? I think their marketing people are up to the challange, and I hope they try.
I think the local Grand Rapids people should say to NS: Assume this facility was close to Roanoke VA, would you just let it shut down without trying to find a new operator?
Considering that General Motors and NOT Norfolk Southern owns the plant, there isn't too much that NS can do to find a new firm to move into a shuttered plant. It's up to GM to sell the plant, assuming that there's someone out there who's willing to buy.
The interstates mentioned have all been totaly rebuilt in the last ten years. Funny how increasing the size of trucks goes hand in hand with destruction of the interstates. The Borman in Indiana is one of the ten top traffic interstates in the country and was widened to four lanes in each direction. All now have at least double the thickness of concrete then they had previously.
dlb wrote: They found it to rebuild the Kingery, the Borman, and the Dan Ryan from the ground up. Admittedly, that was Illinois and Indiana, not Michigan.
They found it to rebuild the Kingery, the Borman, and the Dan Ryan from the ground up. Admittedly, that was Illinois and Indiana, not Michigan.
"They" at that time -- during the Sixties and early Seventies -- consisted of 90 percent funding by the federal government, most notably from gasoline tax revenues. The Interstate Highway system was supposed to make the nation militarily stronger, and as the US' biggest construction project ever, generated something of a sense of national purpose. Even so, there were states and regions of states that had construction put off by years. Note as well that the pay Tollways running into and around Chicago and other parts of Illinois were already built, but stayed pay-as-you-go. I guess that's one of the reasons Illinois sends in much more in tax dollars to the feds than it gets back as gov't programs and such. - a. s.
Agree that the existing routing is on a different line. In fact, I rode the "Pere Marquette" round trip last week. I know the existing routing from at least twenty trips -- including the joy of being in the hole because the nearest siding is too short for the freights, which therefore must occupy the main, and the wonder of 20 mph running through the length of Wyoming Yard.
The idea would be to shift the Grand Rapids routing to the "GR&I" line through K'zoo. Amtrak should certainly achieve better timekeeping with that routing. They would have the option to achieve higher speeds with that routing, as coal drags aren't a factor in dispatching decisions. They could achieve higher frequencies with that routing (one could easily imagine 3 round trips daily with a metro area Grand Rapids' size).
Other improvements are possible with this routing: they could avoid the reverse move the "Pere Marquette" must make today into Grand Rapids' current station by moving the station to the NS line. Intermodal transfers become simpler with a station relocated along the NS line, as the bus depot is much closer to the NS line than the CSX line. And Grand Rapids is well into discussions about light rail service along a similar alignment, if I recall correctly, so "intermodal" may well mean bus, light rail, and intercity rail within a decade.
As for the other major "Pere Marquette" traffic source, Holland, I believe it is possible with existing trackage to reach Holland for one or perhaps two round trips daily -- it would be the first and last stops on the run rather than Grand Rapids. There would be some interference with CSX freight in this instance, and so speeds would undoubtedly be lower from Grand Rapids to Holland than they could be from K'zoo to Grand Rapids, and you'd still have that maddening 20 mph running through the yard.
I would suggest, however, that the shorter single track mileage with concurrent freight operation would result in more reliable service overall to Holland with this routing.
The potential loser, by the way, with this routing scenario, is St. Joseph / Benton Harbor. I don't know the ridership figures, but my experience is that Holland and Grand Rapids probably account for over 80% of the Pere Marquette's current loadings, and Grand Rapids has a much more vigorous business base to increase revenues than St. Joe.
But if Amtrak doesn't buy / lease / control / dispatch the line, they may well lose these opportunities.
The key point is that if the line is to be little-used, Amtrak should buy the ROW, even if they can't afford to upgrade the rail and the signalling immediately to run at 110 mph. It's no accident that the first 110 mph test is on Amtrak-owned ROW. (And it's no accident that the second test is in Illinois)
If nothing else, timekeeping would improve due to less freight interference in comparison to the existing PM/C&O/CSX routing.
Not the only freight user of the line either. Merely a local revenue generating source.
dlb wrote: GM announced today that production at the Grand Rapids Metal Center plant would end by December, 2009. As I understand it, this plant is the major online traffic source for the NS (ex Conrail / Penn Central / PRR / Grand Rapids & Indiana) line between Kalamazoo, MI and Grand Rapids, MI. It is also a line that Amtrak has considered for 110 mph running in the Midwest High Speed Rail initiatives.Firstly, I would remark that this is a somber time for that plant's workers and their families, and I wish them well as they bid for positions elsewhere within GM or find new jobs in the Grand Rapids area. This is at best a difficult transition for the 1340 or so workers who will be idled.But if the plant is to be shuttered, the freight to and from the plant will dry up and the line's reason to exist will be in grave doubt. NS has already considered spinning this line off, witness the "Michigan Central" arrangement the STB denied about year ago.Amtrak should find a way to buy and control this line, and refit it in a manner suitable for high speed service. The idea would be to treat this 50 mile or so stretch like the Amtrak line from Kalamazoo to New Buffalo, MI (about 45 miles), and equip it for eventual 110 mph operation.I could imagine 1 hour and 15 minute timings from Grand Rapids to New Buffalo -- dare I imagine sub-3 hour timings into Chicago? How would that change the economic structure of Western Michigan? And such an infrastructure investment would surely be less costly than further expansion of O'Hare or Midway...Amidst the chaos, opportunity. Will the rail industry's leaders have the ability to consider it?
GM announced today that production at the Grand Rapids Metal Center plant would end by December, 2009. As I understand it, this plant is the major online traffic source for the NS (ex Conrail / Penn Central / PRR / Grand Rapids & Indiana) line between Kalamazoo, MI and Grand Rapids, MI. It is also a line that Amtrak has considered for 110 mph running in the Midwest High Speed Rail initiatives.
Firstly, I would remark that this is a somber time for that plant's workers and their families, and I wish them well as they bid for positions elsewhere within GM or find new jobs in the Grand Rapids area. This is at best a difficult transition for the 1340 or so workers who will be idled.
But if the plant is to be shuttered, the freight to and from the plant will dry up and the line's reason to exist will be in grave doubt. NS has already considered spinning this line off, witness the "Michigan Central" arrangement the STB denied about year ago.
Amtrak should find a way to buy and control this line, and refit it in a manner suitable for high speed service. The idea would be to treat this 50 mile or so stretch like the Amtrak line from Kalamazoo to New Buffalo, MI (about 45 miles), and equip it for eventual 110 mph operation.
I could imagine 1 hour and 15 minute timings from Grand Rapids to New Buffalo -- dare I imagine sub-3 hour timings into Chicago? How would that change the economic structure of Western Michigan? And such an infrastructure investment would surely be less costly than further expansion of O'Hare or Midway...
Amidst the chaos, opportunity. Will the rail industry's leaders have the ability to consider it?
Amtrak doesn't use the line from GR down to K-zoo, you are talking about two different lines.
And the State of Michigan, the federal gov't, and Amtrak are going to find all the necessary boodle buried in a Kaolin mine?? -- a.s.
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