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SEPTA-NJT through service

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Posted by gardendance on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:59 AM
NJT has already run Atlantic City to Philadelphia stadium trains.

Patrick Boylan

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:00 PM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

 

 

Statutes may be manmade but they are the law that governs us, so they can't be ignored on a whim, especially when state funding is involved.  It would literally take an act of the General Assembly of each of the states involved to allow this to happen.  I wouldn't bet on it happening anytime soon.  The other issues would also take more than a little time to be resolved.  Pooling of operating crews would be necessary, otherwise it would take three crews (SEPTA, NJT,MN) to go from Philly to New Haven.  Negotiations with the Brotherhoods on this issue are not going to be short and sweet since the final agreement would have to be viewed as equitable to each of the seniority districts involved.  Revenue divisions could be a major bone of contention since no state would want to be seen as subsidizing another state's service. 

Why so negative?  If there is a need, there is a way.  In fact Conn Dot, MNRR, AMtrak and NJT are working on bringing CT trains into NYP to Secaucus Jct. for sport events at NJ's Meadowlands sports complex.

 

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:13 AM
 henry6 wrote:
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

A multi-agency through service such as described above isn't going to happen for several reasons.  A prime reason would be that the state statutes which established and govern the various transit agencies would probably have to be amended to allow such service.  Revenue divisions and crew and equipment allocations would also have to be resolved.  There are probably other issues, too.

 

But statuates, etc. are man made pieces of paper and imaginary lines in the sand.  We have to stop thinking parochially and saying that because it is it can't be anything else.  Your concerns are real, C,  but if such a service were to come about don't you think that the powers that be will take care of all the union rules, the equipment differences, revenue divisions,  etc.? 

Statutes may be manmade but they are the law that governs us, so they can't be ignored on a whim, especially when state funding is involved.  It would literally take an act of the General Assembly of each of the states involved to allow this to happen.  I wouldn't bet on it happening anytime soon.  The other issues would also take more than a little time to be resolved.  Pooling of operating crews would be necessary, otherwise it would take three crews (SEPTA, NJT,MN) to go from Philly to New Haven.  Negotiations with the Brotherhoods on this issue are not going to be short and sweet since the final agreement would have to be viewed as equitable to each of the seniority districts involved.  Revenue divisions could be a major bone of contention since no state would want to be seen as subsidizing another state's service. 

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, September 18, 2008 7:41 AM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

A multi-agency through service such as described above isn't going to happen for several reasons.  A prime reason would be that the state statutes which established and govern the various transit agencies would probably have to be amended to allow such service.  Revenue divisions and crew and equipment allocations would also have to be resolved.  There are probably other issues, too.

 

But statuates, etc. are man made pieces of paper and imaginary lines in the sand.  We have to stop thinking parochially and saying that because it is it can't be anything else.  Your concerns are real, C,  but if such a service were to come about don't you think that the powers that be will take care of all the union rules, the equipment differences, revenue divisions,  etc.? 

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 12:19 PM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

A multi-agency through service such as described above isn't going to happen for several reasons.  A prime reason would be that the state statutes which established and govern the various transit agencies would probably have to be amended to allow such service.  Revenue divisions and crew and equipment allocations would also have to be resolved.  There are probably other issues, too.

I always thought it would be interesting to run from NYP to Trenton then to Morrisville and down Septa's West Trenton Line, through Center City, then back out thru 30th St to Trenton and NYP.  Every other train could run the loop in reverse.  Would cut the number of crossovers at Trenton down by at least half.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:02 AM

A multi-agency through service such as described above isn't going to happen for several reasons.  A prime reason would be that the state statutes which established and govern the various transit agencies would probably have to be amended to allow such service.  Revenue divisions and crew and equipment allocations would also have to be resolved.  There are probably other issues, too.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:51 PM
But service like this is so badly needed.  NYP to PHila, Phila to Stamford or New Haven, or who knows what interline/inter agency run through service might have merit.  If not for public convenience then for equipment use.   Run a train from Phila or Trenton all the way to New Haven and save deadheading or laying over one? two? three? trains and crews on the railroads. As a public service, rather than an operating savings, maybe a Philadelphia to Trenton, Princeton Jct., New Brunswick, Newark, New York, Stamford, New Haven express servcie fed by or feeding intermediate locals could have a place in the rail transportation market service, a service NJT, SEPTA, and MNRR could provide while Amtrak can't.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, September 15, 2008 11:00 PM
A real improvement in Trenton would be fly-overs to allow non interferrence. It does not surprise me that SEPTA's maintenance may have been suspect in NJ transit's view.
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Posted by gardendance on Monday, September 15, 2008 12:09 PM

It took a long time to happen, but it seems to me NJT now sending trains to their new Morrisville yard has changed the equipment turnaround issue. Do you think it's better now?

I'd assume it takes just as much time to change ends at Morrisville as it did at Trenton, so any improvement must be from the fact that in the yard they're not tying up station tracks, but deadheading Trenton to Morrisville and back must also affect utilization.

Patrick Boylan

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SEPTA-NJT through service
Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 15, 2008 9:27 AM

This operation existed for at least one timetable period but possibly not more.   It existed at time when (1) NJT and SEPTA already owned the cars, (2) Amtrak was in existance and was leasing SEPTA mu's for what is now the Keystone service, except for the through run to New York, at that time just one trip each way.   That used clocker (ex Senator and Congressional) coaches and GG-1's,=.

No attempt was made to use the same train numbers for both SEPTA and NJT, they kept the connecting service number.

The reason for the through service was less the benefit to the public, which was real, than equipment utilization.  See how long it takes before an inbound mu set gets turned and leaves on the opposite platform, both directions at Trenton, and you will see why they tried the through service.

The reason for its discontinuance was not complaints by Amtrak but NJT's evaluation that SEPTA maintenance did not meet their standards.

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