passengerfan wrote: Of Course you are right Mark. Forgive one very tired taxman on the fifteenth of April. I have been doing these things since January between tax clients. It is the fifteenth today and I still have four more clients scheduled before midnight. Being a year round taxman the pressure will be off in the AM but still have lots to do until October 15th. Will definitely have more time for the forums beginning tomorrow. TTFN Al
Of Course you are right Mark. Forgive one very tired taxman on the fifteenth of April. I have been doing these things since January between tax clients. It is the fifteenth today and I still have four more clients scheduled before midnight.
Being a year round taxman the pressure will be off in the AM but still have lots to do until October 15th.
Will definitely have more time for the forums beginning tomorrow.
TTFN Al
No problem and no apologies needed. Get a good nights sleep and things will look a lot rosier in the AM. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes this day or any other day for the past several weeks for that matter. But on the bright side it does pay the bills. I always appreciate the knowledge you share with us so I'll be watching for your posts in the future.
Mark
I thought we were talking about trains that carried what I'll call a full parlor car (that is all parlor seating) in addition to a full diner, coaches and sleepers. If we count the "combination" cars the Rock Island had several trains that would qualify.
1. The Twin Star Rocket consist included a parlor/lounge/observation car which ran the entire distance between Minneapolis and Houston.
2. The Zephyr Rocket (a CB&Q/RI train) carried an observation/parlor/dining car the entire way between St. Louis and Minneapolis.
3. The Texas Rocket carried a coach/parlor/lounge/observation car on the Kansas City - El Reno segment of its run.
4. The Corn Belt Rocket consist included a parlor/dining/observation car between Chicago and Omaha but offered parlor car service only between Chicago and Davenport.
These "combination" cars typically had 16 parlor car seats which were all reserved and required a first class ticket.
Dave I guess I will give it to you. The Denver Zephyr was one of those I had in mind the other two were the Texas Zephyr when it was reequipped with the original DZ equipment and the Mainstreeter. The TZ operated Parlor service between Denver and Pueblo and between Dallas and Amarillo. Like the 1956 DZ the earlier 1930's DZ observation sold Parlor car space. The NP Mainstreeter operated Parlor service on all daylight portions of the secondary Seattle - Chicago streamliners run. The car used for this purpose were the Parlor Buffet Lounge cars built in 1956 that the parlor seating was sold as such during daylight running times and at night these same seats were just additional lounge seats.
I really thought the parentage trhing would be the tipoff.
And that reminds me, the other GM&O train, formerly the Alton Limited, but then the Ann Rutlidge, did cary coaches, diner, and a parlor (at one time a parlor-observation and possibly both a regular parlor and a parlor observation) Chicago - St. Louis, each way, plus the through Missouri Pacific - Texas Pacific sleepers to Houston and San Antonio. So that train qualifies. But that also reminds me that the B&O's Cincinnati Limited to and from Detroit, coaches, diner, and parlor-observation, carried through sleepers for the Southern's Royal Palm to Florida. Then there were at least three PRR NY - Washington trains each way that had the usual coaches and parlor and diner that carried through sleepers for the C&O trains (at least the FFV and the GW, possibly the Sportsman also), and Southern (Piedmont Limited, Aiken-Augusta Special, and the Tennesean during the period of no through coaches). I am referring to through equipment to New York that did not have a separate PRR train number for this segment, which usually the Florida trains, the Silver Comet, Southener, and the Crescent did, even when running combined with a PRR train. People in the C&O through cars had to use a Pennsy diner between NY and Washington. Similarly a Big Four NYC day train between Cincinnati and Chicago would qualify with through C&O sleepers. Possibly the James Whitcom Riley.
But one of the answers you might be looking for, running on what is now BNSF right up to Amtrak, is of course the Denver Zephyr, which did sell parlor seats in its parlor observation lounge, for those that wanted such accomodations. And there were people who used the train as a fast commute to and from Chicago on the east end and to and from Denver on the West end. I rode the DZ overnight, my usual trick being to east on the CZ, stopping off in Denver to visit my sister and other relatives and friends, and then using the DZ to Chicago. I remember there were regular parlor seats in the parlor-observation. I feel lucky to have ridden that really excellent train. Rode regular roomette and slumbercoach or sleepercoach on different occasions. Everything very close to Super Chief service and conditions.
Didn't one of the Santa Fe's Surf Line streamliners carry both a parlor and through sleeper to from San Diego to Chicago at one time? And return?
And then there is the combined Colorado Southern, Santa Fe, D&RGW Joint Line train south from Denver. At times it carried a through Denver Zephyr sleeper from Chicago to Colorado Springs, later a sleepercoach, at one time it had a parlor car, and also sleepers for connection to the Chief to LA or both LA and SF. In addition to the Royal Gorge or Panoramic Limited D&RGW consist which included a parlor car.
daveklepper wrote: When I rode the combined Panama - Magnolia Star, the parlor (only one, and a blunt-end rebuilt heavywieght observation matching the lightweight cars, and with interior appointments reflecting the New Orleans French Quarter) was definitely NOT carried for the length of the run. It was intended to serve the high-end commuters into and out of Chicago, which it certainly did very well, and was dropped and picked up somewhere around Cairo or Chamaign-Urbana. It was not in the consist in New Orleans when I detrained and not when I boarded to return to Chicago. I did use the car after an early breakfast to enjoy the expansion of the RofW from two to eight or ten tracks when entering Chicago and left the train at Central Station very reluctantly. When I rode it the coach portion of the train only had coaches.
When I rode the combined Panama - Magnolia Star, the parlor (only one, and a blunt-end rebuilt heavywieght observation matching the lightweight cars, and with interior appointments reflecting the New Orleans French Quarter) was definitely NOT carried for the length of the run. It was intended to serve the high-end commuters into and out of Chicago, which it certainly did very well, and was dropped and picked up somewhere around Cairo or Chamaign-Urbana. It was not in the consist in New Orleans when I detrained and not when I boarded to return to Chicago. I did use the car after an early breakfast to enjoy the expansion of the RofW from two to eight or ten tracks when entering Chicago and left the train at Central Station very reluctantly. When I rode it the coach portion of the train only had coaches.
Dave is correct. The Panama Limited never carried a parlor car over its entire route between Chicago and New Orleans. At one time it carried a parlor car between Chi and Carbondale on the north end and between Memphis and NO on the south end of its run. I think the Mem-NO car may have been dropped from the consist by the time the train became the Magnolia Star/Panama Ltd.
I previously mentioned the Capitol Limited which, like the Panama, carried a parlor car only over the New York - Washington part of its route.
On the other hand the GM&O's Abraham Lincoln did at one time carry two or more parlor cars over its entire route between Chi and St.L. The Abe Lincoln's consist also included coaches, a dining car, a cocktail lounge car for for coach passengers and a separate cocktail lounge car for parlor car passengers, an observation lounge car and a single sleeper. Northbound the sleeper was a Mobile to Chicago car (carried in GM&0 No. 16, the Gulf Coast Rebel, from Mobile to St.L) and southbound it was a Chicago to Hot Springs car (running in MoPac No. 7 south of St.L)
Sorry Dave, All three were streamlined trains and operated in the 1950' and 1960's right up to Amtrak with parlors sleeping cars and coaches in the case of one.All three had the same parentage and today that parentage is the BNSF. Two of the trains were discontinued shortly before the BN merger the third survived into Amtrak with the same consist.
My guess then would be trains in the heavyweight era. Possibly the Exposition Flyer that preceeded the Cal Zephyr. It had sleepers and coaches throughout its run, plus dining cars, and an solarium-blunt-end-observation car (not open rear platform) that also sold parlor seats if I am not mistaken, so it could be called a parlor car. Similarly, I would not doubt that the heavyweight AT&SF Grand Canyon Limited was similar, and possibly heavyweight Lark, Sunset, and Golden State.
But I may be wrong about the Super Chief. Possibly the first experimental edition hauled by the two box-cab looking EMC's, heavyweight equipment, had one or two through parlors? Not the Budd lightweight that followed.
Sorry Dave
Very Close but no Cigar. The three trains I am thinking about carried sleepers coaches and Parlors for the entire distance of their runs. They were not part of another train for any of that distance but those three types of cars were carried throughout the entire journey of the three trains I have in mind.
The Super Chief - El Cap never carried a parlor in its history nor in the history of each train seperately.
I believe the SP&S did operate a Spokane - Seattle parlor on its day train, which also handled both coaches and sleepers of the GN and NP (NP west from Pasco only) off of one of the through trains from Chicago. And often these GN and NP particular trains were combined with one of the Twin Cities Zephers between Minneapolis and Chicago, which also handled a parlor.
passengerfan wrote: KCSfan wrote: passengerfan wrote:Being in a hury earlier I forgot to mention that one of those trains had been all pullman when it carried the Parlor cars and later added a coach section to the train and it carried a different name in the timtables does that help.Sounds like the Panama Limited/Magnolia Star.Two other trains with this consist would be the Capitol Limited and the Abraham Lincoln which carried a Mobile - Chicago sleeper at one time. MarkCorrect on the Magnolia Star/Panama Limited. The other three were on western roads and operated the consists through between destinations. All three were inter-related by parentage if that helps Al
KCSfan wrote: passengerfan wrote:Being in a hury earlier I forgot to mention that one of those trains had been all pullman when it carried the Parlor cars and later added a coach section to the train and it carried a different name in the timtables does that help.Sounds like the Panama Limited/Magnolia Star.Two other trains with this consist would be the Capitol Limited and the Abraham Lincoln which carried a Mobile - Chicago sleeper at one time. Mark
passengerfan wrote:Being in a hury earlier I forgot to mention that one of those trains had been all pullman when it carried the Parlor cars and later added a coach section to the train and it carried a different name in the timtables does that help.
Sounds like the Panama Limited/Magnolia Star.
Two other trains with this consist would be the Capitol Limited and the Abraham Lincoln which carried a Mobile - Chicago sleeper at one time.
Al
Does the Super Chief / El Capitan count? - a.s.
Can anyone name the four long distance trains that operated with Coach, Dining , Lounge, Parlor and Pullman Sleeping car space all in the same trains? One of these trains operated with two separate Parlor cars over its route.
Just thought this might create some interest in this forum.
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