Remember Crandal owns a lot of AA stock and more fixed price options. Good money to be had if AA stock is not loosing value from Brightline.
York1... Property rights are enshrined in our country's Declaration along with all the other rights we cherish. Property rights were one of the main reasons given in the Declaration for the founding of our country.
From the 5th Amedment to the Constitution:
... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
York1A group of millionaire and billionaire investors forcing someone to give up their land is also a corruption of the democratic system. That wealthy group of investors who bought the billions in bonds is hoping to make a lot of money by taking that land.
That would be a corruption, except enriching milloinaires is not a reason for eminent domain. The legal basis is that the project must show that it is for the public good.
MidlandMike... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
.......And there it is.
Under our real estate laws your next door neighbor can actually steal a portion of your property legally by maintaining it unchallenged for a number of years. Lookup "Adverse Possession" and the 5-6 requirements in order to make that argument in court.
CMStPnP MidlandMike ... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. .......And there it is. Under our real estate laws your next door neighbor can actually steal a portion of your property legally by maintaining it unchallenged for a number of years. Lookup "Adverse Possession" and the 5-6 requirements in order to make that argument in court.
MidlandMike ... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
And there what is?
The fact that eminent domain is legal is not the issue here.
The fact that Brightline wants the government to use eminent domain so that Brightline can build a railroad to earn money for their bondholders is the issue.
This whole discussion is based on your condemnation of an elected official working to represent his constituents instead of a group of millionaire investors:
CMStPnPActually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route. I see that as corruption of our Democratic system, I cannot explain it any other way.
It would be a corruption of our democratic system if the representative didn't work to represent those "wealthy residential and land owners". Maybe because they're wealthy, they don't deserve the representation?
And in this case, the county and state are going to have to decide what is good for the public interest: a train built by a private company and financed by millionaire investors, or the county's own landowners who will lose property and whose remaining property will lose value.
What does adverse possession have to do with this discussion?
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
MidlandMike York1 ... Property rights are enshrined in our country's Declaration along with all the other rights we cherish. Property rights were one of the main reasons given in the Declaration for the founding of our country. From the 5th Amedment to the Constitution: ... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
York1 ... Property rights are enshrined in our country's Declaration along with all the other rights we cherish. Property rights were one of the main reasons given in the Declaration for the founding of our country.
This isn't what the discussion is about. The fact that eminent domain is legal doesn't change what Brightline's plans call for. The fact is that eminent domain is a process of last resort, and should be fought by land owners in nearly every case.
If Orange County and the state of Florida decide to use eminent domain in this case, that is their right.
It won't change the fact that it would benefit Brightline's millionaire investors, benefit Disney's billionaire owners, and take land and hurt property owners' land values along the route.
York1This isn't what the discussion is about. The fact that eminent domain is legal doesn't change what Brightline's plans call for. The fact is that eminent domain is a process of last resort, and should be fought by land owners in nearly every case. If Orange County and the state of Florida decide to use eminent domain in this case, that is their right. It won't change the fact that it would benefit Brightline's millionaire investors, benefit Disney's billionaire owners, and take land and hurt property owners' land values along the route.
Of course the local government should look out for their citizens. That includes those living along the route, but also all the citizens of the county who benefit from the tourist industry, and also those who might use the transportation services of Brightline. As I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation.
As for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway. Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise.
MidlandMikeAs for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway. Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise.
This isn't transit for the community. This is a train from the airport to Disney. It provides no transit for Hunter's Creek, since the train only goes through. At least the highway has two access points for the citizens there.
MidlandMikeAs I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation.
If this was a public operation, I might agree with you. It's not. Privately run Brightline wants this route because it's cheaper than the route Orlando wants. Cheaper means Brightline won't have to sell more bonds and the present wealthy bondholders will benefit. If this were a public utility, they would probably route the train to other venues also, such as the convention center and Universal.
It's obvious I disagree with others here. I've posted enough. I apologize for the rants, but eminent domain, for a good reason, is a hot button issue for me. Enough said.
Here is a U tube of the May 2021 progress Cocoa - Orlando airport.
Brightline Construction: Orlando Line Along State Road 528 - May 2021 - YouTube
York1And in this case, the county and state are going to have to decide what is good for the public interest: a train built by a private company and financed by millionaire investors, or the county's own landowners who will lose property and whose remaining property will lose value.
Fortress Investments is an "Investment Group", which is a group of Venture Capital Firms pooling their money together as one. I noticed you no longer refer to them as Billionaire investors and 99.9% or more of them are not. Anyone of any income level can join or buy shares in a Venture Capital firm, you do not need to be a millionaire. It is another form of investing just like Real Estate Investment Trusts or Mutual Funds. So Fortress Investments is an aggregation of Individual Firms which is an aggregation of individual investors. You don't seem to grasp that based on how your writing your responses. Facts are most of the venture capitalist investors are probably not as wealthy as the landowners around Orlando (so your argument on the privelege of the wealthy is probably and most likely turned around in this case).
Have you looked at what they are asking for land in that area near Disney on an acreage basis and what the property taxes are on that acreage? So while I recognize it is an appeal towards base emotion over intellect, it's probably not appropriate to attempt to use the "class warfare" argument here. I am pretty confident in this case the landowners around Disney are not poor or down and out on their finances as you attempt to portray.
And if being poor in this country means owning acreage in Orlando adjacent to Disney.......someone please make me poor!!!!
I had made up my mind last night not to respond anymore. And yet, stupid me, here I am again. This will now be my last post ... I promise. (I heard those cheers out there!)
CMStPnPSo while I recognize it is an appeal towards base emotion over intellect, it's probably not appropriate to attempt to use the "class warfare" argument here. I am pretty confident in this case the landowners around Disney are not poor or down and out on their finances as you attempt to portray.
Appeal toward base emotion? Attempt to use class warfare as an argument? Before I even posted my first comment in this thread, this is what you wrote:
CMStPnPEven more surprising is the Florida Congressional Representative who are anti-Amtrak with voting records whom always told the public they are OK with rail transit as long as it is privately run. Actually took a stance against Brightline in exchange for currying favor with wealthy residential and land owners along the route. I see that as corruption of our Democratic system, I cannot explain it any other way.
Seems you were using class warfare and appealing to base emotion to show how bad the representative was for taking the side of the bad rich people.
Nowhere did I claim the landowners were "poor or down and out on their finances". In fact, if you check back, I said the wealthy landowners deserved representation, even though they may be wealthy. You were the one who implied their elected representative was wrong for taking the side of the "wealthy residential and land owners".
CMStPnP I noticed you no longer refer to them as Billionaire investors and 99.9% or more of them are not. Anyone of any income level can join or buy shares in a Venture Capital firm, you do not need to be a millionaire.
By billionaire investors, I was referring to the investment groups, not the individuals. The same with Disney, which is owned by large, very rich investment companies and foundations. It's possible even my own retirement funds have some money invested there. That does not make eminent domain right.
I will once again go back to my original post and why I even got involved in this discussion.
A U.S. representative is entitled, and even obligated, to represent the people in his district. It does not matter how rich those people are, and it does not matter how much we may want a new train. That is not, as you claimed, a "corruption of our Democratic system". It is, in fact, the way a democratic republic is supposed to function.
CMStPnP and Midland Mike, I hope nothing I've said causes a problem. I always appreciate both of you and your comments on the various forum topics. I apologize if I've have said anything that causes a problem.
I promise, promise, and this time I really, really, mean it, this will be my last post in this thread.
York1 MidlandMike As for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway. Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise. This isn't transit for the community. This is a train from the airport to Disney. It provides no transit for Hunter's Creek, since the train only goes through. At least the highway has two access points for the citizens there. MidlandMike As I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation. If this was a public operation, I might agree with you. It's not. Privately run Brightline wants this route because it's cheaper than the route Orlando wants. Cheaper means Brightline won't have to sell more bonds and the present wealthy bondholders will benefit. If this were a public utility, they would probably route the train to other venues also, such as the convention center and Universal. It's obvious I disagree with others here. I've posted enough. I apologize for the rants, but eminent domain, for a good reason, is a hot button issue for me. Enough said.
MidlandMike As for devaluation of property, it is already alongside a freeway. Plus in areas convenient to transit, property values usually rise.
MidlandMike As I have said in another post, eminent domain wouldn't be for the millionaire investors, but for the thousands of people who will use the transportation.
I recall that Sun Rail was also interested in the line for transit options.
Regarding private vs. public, historical review of the line may be instructive. In 2000 Florida voters approved a constitutional amendment to fund HSR. Orlando-Tampa was an early favorite. However, before things got off the ground, Gov, Jeb Bush endorsed the repeal of the amendment, and voters reversed themselves. Then with stimulus funds available to help recover from the Great Recession, the Feds granted the funds to revive the Orlando-Tampa proposal. This time Gov. Scott killed the project. (I guess I should be greatful since my state, Michigan, got redirected funds to buy the east 100 miles of the Wolverine corridor, which is being upgraded to 110 mph.) So maybe the third time's the charm, with a private company funding the line. Florida apparently wants the line, they just don't want to pay for it. Brightline is risking their money, and seeing that the dozen companies that tried private passenger operation in the Amtrak era are no longer in business, it's quite the risk. Even if a public agency had built the line, they would have contracted out the construction to a private company, and may have even contracted out the operation. In any case private investors are probably going to make money, and the public gets the transportation. And for 200 years, with the help of eminent domain, that's how the rail system and all transportation/utility infrastructure was built.
Brightline brige work edition 5
Brightline Construction: The Fifth Bridge Edition - May 2021 - YouTube
This link shows the damage of the FEC Cane Creek bridge. A replacement 2 main track bridge is being built so we can see the progress of bridge being built as well as the damage the ready mix truck did to the bridge being replaced.
The drone footage and audio is very good.
Crane Creek Bridge Strike on the Florida East Coast Railway and Brightline Bridge Construction - YouTube
Construction video May 31, 2021
Flying Over Brightline's Orlando Line Construction: Part 2 - May 31 2021 - YouTube
Here is another overview of Brightline. article starts at about 50 seconds
BUILDING A RAILROAD TO WALT DISNEY WORLD - Brightline Spring 2021 Update - YouTube
Thanks for sharing .. I would imagine Mears will go out of their way to make things a challenge for Brightline.
There were able to find another span to replace the damaged bridge.
https://youtu.be/K6f-TuMf5Nk
Latest report from brightline. A little of slick presentation. Dated june 22. This progress report mainly about ORLANDO - DISNEY.
https://occompt.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=9508045&GUID=E3B3499E-B309-488F-8BB1-8EEB50808127
Index (ocfl.net)
2021-06-22 PPP File 21-768 Work Session Brightline Update.pdf
Sorry cannot get links to work yet.
2021-06-22 PPP File 21-768 Work Session Brightline Update (3).pdf
Regarding eminent domain, I am also strongly opposed when it is used to benefit one class on people over another, and especially when it is used against poor and ethnic neighborhoods. Look at where interstates and expressways and landfills get sited. That is part of a long history of class warfare against the poor and nonwhite. Where were all the representatives then. At least this rail line will be a lot less obtrusive than an expressway or landfill.
Drone footage of the brightline bridge construction over I-95.
2021 Brightline Updated Selects Reel mp4 - YouTube
Anoher section near Jensen Beach.
Brightline Construction in St. Lucie and Martin Counties - June 2021. - YouTube
June / July progress at Melbore and vacinity.
Brightline Construction: Micco Crossover and Melbourne Progress - June/July 2021 - YouTube
July I-95 Cocoa tunnel . What ever Drone he is using is very good.
Brightline Construction: Interstate 95 Bridge and Cocoa Curve/Tunnel Progress - July 2021 - YouTube
July 2021 Orlando - I-95.
Brightline Construction: Progress on the Orlando Line - July 2021 - Bing video
July 2021 bridge work views # 6 along the Atlantic coast. FEC is really going to get a very up to date track from West Palm Beach to Cocoa. A thought on the previous post. The work connection to the Power plant spur would allow freight service to Orlando without going thru the airport !
Brightline Construction: July 2021 Bridge Edition - YouTube
I was thinking about that, but wouldn't the tunnels under 528 hinder freight to Cocoa?
Micco crossover construction July 24,2021
Brightline Construction: Micco Crossover Cutover Day 1 - July 24, 2021 - YouTube
Latest follow up of the Orlando airport construction.
Brightline Orlando International Airport Passenger Rail Construction - July 2021 - YouTube
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.