Deggesty schlimm Perhaps Amtrak should take a look at how airlines deal with compensation for non-flying time. As I recall flight attendants are not on the clock until the plane pulls from the gate and off once it reaches the gate at destination. Layovers overnight (or even longer for some international flights) are also off the clock, but with a good accomodation allowance. Do flight attendants have to check stock before and after? I doubt it.
schlimm Perhaps Amtrak should take a look at how airlines deal with compensation for non-flying time. As I recall flight attendants are not on the clock until the plane pulls from the gate and off once it reaches the gate at destination. Layovers overnight (or even longer for some international flights) are also off the clock, but with a good accomodation allowance.
Perhaps Amtrak should take a look at how airlines deal with compensation for non-flying time. As I recall flight attendants are not on the clock until the plane pulls from the gate and off once it reaches the gate at destination. Layovers overnight (or even longer for some international flights) are also off the clock, but with a good accomodation allowance.
Do flight attendants have to check stock before and after? I doubt it.
Have to keep that stock of pretzels and peanuts up to snuff!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Deggesty schlimm Perhaps Amtrak should take a look at how airlines deal with compensation for non-flying time. As I recall flight attendants are not on the clock until the plane pulls from the gate and off once it reaches the gate at destination. Layovers overnight (or even longer for some international flights) are also off the clock, but with a good accomodation allowance. Do flight attendants have to check stock before and after? I doubt it. Have to keep that stock of pretzels and peanuts up to snuff!
Flight attendants have to check all inventory and the sales records. On international flights it involves several meals and snacks plus the duty-free stuff. Probably more to do than many Amtrak food persons, what with being on-call for up to 300 demanding passengers.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
CMSTPnP:
I don't think there's anything in your post of this morning with which I would disagree. The fact is, the conditions you describe are completely different from the actual conditions under which Amtrak O.B.S. personnel work. I can't address conditions in other crafts. I understand several of those contracts are more generous. Amtrak Management has shown a strong resistance to any changes that would create a better working environment for O.B.S. employees, and that isn't likely to change. The general rule has been "long hours; short sleep" since long before I ever worked there. Now that I've retired, it's up to those who are still there to continue the struggle for something better.
Tom
schlimmFlight attendants have to check all inventory and the sales records. On international flights it involves several meals and snacks plus the duty-free stuff. Probably more to do than many Amtrak food persons, what with being on-call for up to 300 demanding passengers.
I will also add that flight attendents now use a handheld point of sales system that is light years ahead of paper and carbon copies that Amtrak is using on most long distance trains (when I rode one last a few years ago). Hopefully, Amtrak has updated in the last few years with the Dining Car point of sale.
BTW, the newer Boeing planes like the 787 can transmit data to the airport before arriving and one might presume that can include food and beverage needs for the next departure.
ACY CMSTPnP: I don't think there's anything in your post of this morning with which I would disagree. The fact is, the conditions you describe are completely different from the actual conditions under which Amtrak O.B.S. personnel work. I can't address conditions in other crafts. I understand several of those contracts are more generous. Amtrak Management has shown a strong resistance to any changes that would create a better working environment for O.B.S. employees, and that isn't likely to change. The general rule has been "long hours; short sleep" since long before I ever worked there. Now that I've retired, it's up to those who are still there to continue the struggle for something better. Tom
Thats sad about Amtrak Management and we are not talking a lot of money here but a huge difference in employee life.
CMStPnP schlimm Flight attendants have to check all inventory and the sales records. On international flights it involves several meals and snacks plus the duty-free stuff. Probably more to do than many Amtrak food persons, what with being on-call for up to 300 demanding passengers. I will also add that flight attendents now use a handheld point of sales system that is light years ahead of paper and carbon copies that Amtrak is using on most long distance trains (when I rode one last a few years ago). Hopefully, Amtrak has updated in the last few years with the Dining Car point of sale. BTW, the newer Boeing planes like the 787 can transmit data to the airport before arriving and one might presume that can include food and beverage needs for the next departure.
schlimm Flight attendants have to check all inventory and the sales records. On international flights it involves several meals and snacks plus the duty-free stuff. Probably more to do than many Amtrak food persons, what with being on-call for up to 300 demanding passengers.
Johnny
Via travels through vast areas with no cell phone coverage, the hand held devices you reference use cellular frequencies. Most of BC Ferries trips are within cell coverage. Also Via is even more cash-strapped than Amtrak.
Update on Amtrak Labor Agreements for OBS. Looks like Obama Administration is going to try and pass a law where anyone that works over 40 hours even if salaried (up to a Salary point of 45-50K) gets time and a half pay. Just a proposal now but it might alleviate some of the Amtrak contract issues currently, if it passes the Congress.
CMStPnP Update on Amtrak Labor Agreements for OBS. Looks like Obama Administration is going to try and pass a law where anyone that works over 40 hours even if salaried (up to a Salary point of 45-50K) gets time and a half pay. Just a proposal now but it might alleviate some of the Amtrak contract issues currently, if it passes the Congress.
What contract covered craft is making less than $50K full time?
Contract covered crafts are non-exempt and are entitled to overtime in accordance with the contract. The goal of the administration's action is to put a brake on the abuse of putting employees on salary to reduce overtime by use of a very broad definition of management positions.
BaltACDHave to keep that stock of pretzels and peanuts up to snuff!
Well on American Airlines there is a lot more to the stock than pretzels and peanuts. American prides itself on the wide range of beverages it carries both non-alcholic and alcholic. Also, their First Class Domestic meals are still fairly good.....and they usually offer a choice of menu.
A tip, First Class Domestic for American is pretty cheap if you buy the tickets in advance via the Internet. I am sure the other airlines are competitive but I found American to be the cheapest on advance First Class ticket purchases.
CMStPnP ACY CMSTPnP: I don't think there's anything in your post of this morning with which I would disagree. The fact is, the conditions you describe are completely different from the actual conditions under which Amtrak O.B.S. personnel work. I can't address conditions in other crafts. I understand several of those contracts are more generous. Amtrak Management has shown a strong resistance to any changes that would create a better working environment for O.B.S. employees, and that isn't likely to change. The general rule has been "long hours; short sleep" since long before I ever worked there. Now that I've retired, it's up to those who are still there to continue the struggle for something better. Tom Thats sad about Amtrak Management and we are not talking a lot of money here but a huge difference in employee life.
The sense I get about the 40-hour work day is not that this employee in any way filed a fraudulent time card. It could be that this employee "gamed the system" within the existing rules to pile on the hours like the proverbial legal billing record.
But it seems likely that this instance was a "perfect storm" of the work rules breaking in the employees favor to allow this. As to the question, no, the demand, "Is any Amtrak employee worthy of $1500 for a day's activities", the sense I get is that the question should be "how is this $1500 in pay balanced against this employee or other Amtrak employees getting the short-end of the employee contract, especially in unpaid and mandated "rest time" or "deadhead time" or time-away-from-home for the benefit and convenience of the employer?
A more capable and enlightened Amtrak management could probably avoid such large payouts as well as run a more humane system for their onboard-service (OBS) employees with respect to their unpaid time. I think whether Amtrak and its unions and employees could do better should be discussed in places like this.
But from other comments, many with Amtrak work experience, count me as not being outraged, either at the employee, their union, or at Amtrak management. Providing people on trains to serve passengers many miles and surface-transportation hours away from their homes, and coming up with a system that pays a fair day's wage for a day's labor while at the same time not abusing workers is a challenging problem I never tried to figure out.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Well said.
Paul Milenkovic CMStPnP ACY CMSTPnP: I don't think there's anything in your post of this morning with which I would disagree. The fact is, the conditions you describe are completely different from the actual conditions under which Amtrak O.B.S. personnel work. I can't address conditions in other crafts. I understand several of those contracts are more generous. Amtrak Management has shown a strong resistance to any changes that would create a better working environment for O.B.S. employees, and that isn't likely to change. The general rule has been "long hours; short sleep" since long before I ever worked there. Now that I've retired, it's up to those who are still there to continue the struggle for something better. Tom Thats sad about Amtrak Management and we are not talking a lot of money here but a huge difference in employee life. The sense I get about the 40-hour work day is not that this employee in any way filed a fraudulent time card. It could be that this employee "gamed the system" within the existing rules to pile on the hours like the proverbial legal billing record. But it seems likely that this instance was a "perfect storm" of the work rules breaking in the employees favor to allow this. As to the question, no, the demand, "Is any Amtrak employee worthy of $1500 for a day's activities", the sense I get is that the question should be "how is this $1500 in pay balanced against this employee or other Amtrak employees getting the short-end of the employee contract, especially in unpaid and mandated "rest time" or "deadhead time" or time-away-from-home for the benefit and convenience of the employer? A more capable and enlightened Amtrak management could probably avoid such large payouts as well as run a more humane system for their onboard-service (OBS) employees with respect to their unpaid time. I think whether Amtrak and its unions and employees could do better should be discussed in places like this. But from other comments, many with Amtrak work experience, count me as not being outraged, either at the employee, their union, or at Amtrak management. Providing people on trains to serve passengers many miles and surface-transportation hours away from their homes, and coming up with a system that pays a fair day's wage for a day's labor while at the same time not abusing workers is a challenging problem I never tried to figure out.
This all sounds sensible to me. Both Amtrak and the unions have both eyes wide open when they negotiate this stuff. Too often, it seems, they wind up focused on sticking it too each other rather than sticking up for their constituencies (passengers and employees).
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Paul MilenkovicAs to the question, no, the demand, "Is any Amtrak employee worthy of $1500 for a day's activities"
You put a statement in quotes to make some sort of point. Whom were you quoting?
I actually said, "Exactly. I would hope nobody here will rationalize away a system that paid a food service attendant ~$1500 for one day's work." and "There is NO possible rational excuse for paying a food service attendant $1500 for one day's work other than ludicrous, out-of-date contract work rules." and "Frankly, any contract that allows this [Total for one day for one attendant = $1459.47] is an obscene abuse of the taxpayers."
I never dealt with worthiness nor do I believe there was anything illegal. However, I still believe that Amtrak management is at fault for having in place a system in which matters as above occur.
BTW, on an unrelated note, the information I passed on was from the OIG report, not from the article.
I think, in fairness to Mr. Milenkovic, that he was phrasing it as a rhetorical question, and not intending to criticize what you said or call you out in a more personal, or direct, sense. At least, that's how I understood it.
Wizlish I think, in fairness to Mr. Milenkovic, that he was phrasing it as a rhetorical question, and not intending to criticize what you said or call you out in a more personal, or direct, sense. At least, that's how I understood it.
Whenever organizations are 'presenting their case' for changing work rules - the worst possible example is always presented as if it were a everyday commonplace occurrence - on BOTH SIDES of the argument. Nothing to see here - move on!
Maybe one day in Amtrak's future?....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMItxWb9VNE
Too much to hope for?
CMStPnP Maybe one day in Amtrak's future?.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMItxWb9VNE Too much to hope for?
Well, hey, let's get started:
"I love the toilet smells
The oil-train delays
All the new baggage cars
And forty-hour days
(Boom-te=yadda-boom-te-yadda...)"
But yeah, I'm really with you on the 'maybe, someday, Amtrak will have similar enthusiasm and make similar promotional videos..." Heck, if they asked Kelly Lynch politely, he'd probably help them make it for free...
Hey ------
It wasn't all drudgery. I was on a happy crew that worked well together.
Very often, we DID sing while we worked. But not always.
There was a version of Rogers & Hammerstein's "My Favorite Things", which we called "My Least Fav'rite Things." Discretion prevents me from sharing most of the lyrics, but I'll give you a couple lines:
CSX Railroad, in all of their wisdom,
Bought them a modernized, centralized system.
Now if there's even the slightest snowfall,
All the trains stop and they don't move at all.
When the wind blows, when the snow falls, when it starts to rain,
All of the CSX signals go red, and that's when we stop
THE TRAIN!
It may be slanderous, and not 100% accurate, but it was fun.
Now we're talking...er....singing!
And, "laying the miles over his shoulder as a man peels a shaving from a soft board..."
Now, in the darkest night, even as the Purple Emperor said, if you will stand on the bridge across the freightyard, looking down upon the four-track way, at 2:30 A. M., neither before nor after, when the White Moth, that takes the overflow from the Purple Emperor, tears south with her seven vestibuled cream-white cars, you will hear, as the yard-clock makes the half-hour, a far-away sound like the bass of a violoncello, and then, a hundred feet to each word "With a michnai - ghignai - shtingal! Yah! Yah! Yah! Ein - zwei - drei - Mutter! Yah! Yah! Yah! She climb upon der shteeple, Und she frighten all der people, Singin' michnai - ghignai - shtingal! Yah! Yah!"
Now, in the darkest night, even as the Purple Emperor said, if you will stand on the bridge across the freightyard, looking down upon the four-track way, at 2:30 A. M., neither before nor after, when the White Moth, that takes the overflow from the Purple Emperor, tears south with her seven vestibuled cream-white cars, you will hear, as the yard-clock makes the half-hour, a far-away sound like the bass of a violoncello, and then, a hundred feet to each word
"With a michnai - ghignai - shtingal! Yah! Yah! Yah! Ein - zwei - drei - Mutter! Yah! Yah! Yah! She climb upon der shteeple, Und she frighten all der people, Singin' michnai - ghignai - shtingal! Yah! Yah!"
ACY Hey ------ It wasn't all drudgery. I was on a happy crew that worked well together. Very often, we DID sing while we worked. But not always. There was a version of Rogers & Hammerstein's "My Favorite Things", which we called "My Least Fav'rite Things." Discretion prevents me from sharing most of the lyrics, but I'll give you a couple lines: CSX Railroad, in all of their wisdom, Bought them a modernized, centralized system. Now if there's even the slightest snowfall, All the trains stop and they don't move at all. When the wind blows, when the snow falls, when it starts to rain, All of the CSX signals go red, and that's when we stop THE TRAIN! It may be slanderous, and not 100% accurate, but it was fun. Tom
csx - 'The Fair Weather Line'
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