Paul Milenkovic oltmannd CMStPnP I won't ever step foot in a Talgo and I am a Amtrak passenger. Americans deserve better than that crap. I don't doubt for a minute that some in the Pacific Northwest would ride on a Trailer Train Flatcar in their sandals and beads and pay fare if seat belts were available. Cool! Where can we get that open air ride on a Trailer Train flat car?
oltmannd CMStPnP I won't ever step foot in a Talgo and I am a Amtrak passenger. Americans deserve better than that crap. I don't doubt for a minute that some in the Pacific Northwest would ride on a Trailer Train Flatcar in their sandals and beads and pay fare if seat belts were available.
CMStPnP I won't ever step foot in a Talgo and I am a Amtrak passenger. Americans deserve better than that crap. I don't doubt for a minute that some in the Pacific Northwest would ride on a Trailer Train Flatcar in their sandals and beads and pay fare if seat belts were available.
Cool! Where can we get that open air ride on a Trailer Train flat car?
Seriously, can we discuss the pros and cons of different trains without a categorical dismissal and use of four-letter words?
We are all enthusiasts here. We live and breathe the technical details of trains. If a person feels the Talgo is no good, even without experience riding it, could a person at least explain in their own words the foundation of that opinion rather than us just having to take your word for it?
Or do angry words make the point and there is nothing more to discuss?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Paul Milenkovic Seriously, can we discuss the pros and cons of different trains without a categorical dismissal and use of four-letter words? We are all enthusiasts here. We live and breathe the technical details of trains. If a person feels the Talgo is no good, even without experience riding it, could a person at least explain in their own words the foundation of that opinion rather than us just having to take your word for it? Or do angry words make the point and there is nothing more to discuss?
I'll second that. What specifically is it about the Talgo trains you (CMStPnP) find so objectionable? And for that matter, what is with the stereotypical insults of the good folks in the PNW? Perhaps they are not exactly your cup of tea, but some folks might just say the same about Texas folks.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
oltmannd Midwest cars not on order yet? Thought they were. http://www.nipponsharyousa.com/tp121106.htm
Midwest cars not on order yet? Thought they were.
http://www.nipponsharyousa.com/tp121106.htm
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
Well it's now official: single level cars and locomitives provided by Siemens. http://allaboardflorida.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1417aa7abba8abaf60c80fdc9&id=b0fcf85cb9&e=1dc01ac7a3
http://allaboardflorida.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1417aa7abba8abaf60c80fdc9&id=b0fcf85cb9&e=1dc01ac7a3
Now a rendering of the locomotives has been released. ( see link below ). Will locos be exactly like the Midwest sprinters now under construction ? Maybe a different paint job ? Would that make them fully Amtrak compliant ? Do the Midwest sprinters have a contract date for delivery ? Will Siemens be able to fit this order into their production schedule ? If enough alike one set of testing protocols at Pueblo could spread cost of testing ?
Wonder how close the coaches will be to the Viewliner-2s now being built. Maybe Siemens will purchase the drawings from Amtrak ? Why invent the wheel again ?
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/03/27/usa-high-speed-rail-gets-boost-32-train-order-siemens-trains/
blue streak 1Now a rendering of the locomotives has been released. ( see link below ). Will they be exactly like the Midwest sprinters now under construction ?
Here is a PDF link to a datasheet for the Siemens Charger locomotives. (This is from the Siemens page referenced by the original AAF press release.)
blue streak 1 Will locos be exactly like the Midwest sprinters now under construction ? Maybe a different paint job ?
Will locos be exactly like the Midwest sprinters now under construction ? Maybe a different paint job ?
blue streak 1 Would that make them fully Amtrak compliant ?
Would that make them fully Amtrak compliant ?
blue streak 1 Do the Midwest sprinters have a contract date for delivery ? Will Siemens be able to fit this order into their production schedule ?
Do the Midwest sprinters have a contract date for delivery ? Will Siemens be able to fit this order into their production schedule ?
D.Carleton To the best of my knowledge no units are currently "under construction" for the Midwest due to legal challenges from EMD and the individual states still dotting their "T's" and crossing their "I's." Worded question poorly. Will AAF be identical to Amtrak's ? That would enable one test sequence to be all needed, Also would make them fully interchangeable. As already mentioned nothing is being built yet for the Midwest. Look for AAF's locomotives to be built first. That is great news for Siemens. They now can get a notice to proceed from AAF, ramp up supply sources, and not have to wait on the Midwest coalition.. At same time that is bad news for EMD as their hostage challenge may not delay start of production for the Midwest unless EMD can force a re-bid ? . As well the Midwest locos will probably be available earlier to the coalition if their production is finally approved. We have seen how long the ACS-64s took to ramp up to their production rate.
To the best of my knowledge no units are currently "under construction" for the Midwest due to legal challenges from EMD and the individual states still dotting their "T's" and crossing their "I's."
Worded question poorly. Will AAF be identical to Amtrak's ? That would enable one test sequence to be all needed, Also would make them fully interchangeable.
As already mentioned nothing is being built yet for the Midwest. Look for AAF's locomotives to be built first.
blue streak 1 D.Carleton To the best of my knowledge no units are currently "under construction" for the Midwest due to legal challenges from EMD and the individual states still dotting their "T's" and crossing their "I's." Worded question poorly. Will AAF be identical to Amtrak's ? That would enable one test sequence to be all needed, Also would make them fully interchangeable.
D.Carleton To the best of my knowledge no units are currently "under construction" for the Midwest due to legal challenges from EMD and the individual states still dotting their "T's" and crossing their "I's."
blue streak 1 D.Carleton As already mentioned nothing is being built yet for the Midwest. Look for AAF's locomotives to be built first. That is great news for Siemens. They now can get a notice to proceed from AAF, ramp up supply sources, and not have to wait on the Midwest coalition.. At same time that is bad news for EMD as their hostage challenge may not delay start of production for the Midwest unless EMD can force a re-bid ? . As well the Midwest locos will probably be available earlier to the coalition if their production is finally approved. We have seen how long the ACS-64s took to ramp up to their production rate.
D.Carleton As already mentioned nothing is being built yet for the Midwest. Look for AAF's locomotives to be built first.
D.CarletonIt is interesting the HEP spec for the AAF locomotives is 1000 kW. For years the NRPC spec has been 800 kW.
I assume that the HEP spec for each of the physical locomotives, then, is 500kW (as there will be two locomotives per train) and this would seem adequate for the 4-car planned consists. I expect also that at least some of a 'reduced' power spec involves much more efficient lighting, HVAC, and so forth for the new trains than what Amtrak had available when they adopted a higher spec.
I'm sure we've had threads somewhere on what the average and peak HEP-supplied power requirements for various types of car are. Does anyone have the patience to cite them here? Or provide the current (no pun intended) figures for modern Amtrak equipment?
Overmod D.CarletonIt is interesting the HEP spec for the AAF locomotives is 1000 kW. For years the NRPC spec has been 800 kW. I assume that the HEP spec for each of the physical locomotives, then, is 500kW (as there will be two locomotives per train) and this would seem adequate for the 4-car planned consists. I expect also that at least some of a 'reduced' power spec involves much more efficient lighting, HVAC, and so forth for the new trains than what Amtrak had available when they adopted a higher spec. I'm sure we've had threads somewhere on what the average and peak HEP-supplied power requirements for various types of car are. Does anyone have the patience to cite them here? Or provide the current (no pun intended) figures for modern Amtrak equipment?
D.Carleton Overmod D.CarletonIt is interesting the HEP spec for the AAF locomotives is 1000 kW. For years the NRPC spec has been 800 kW. I assume that the HEP spec for each of the physical locomotives, then, is 500kW (as there will be two locomotives per train) and this would seem adequate for the 4-car planned consists. I expect also that at least some of a 'reduced' power spec involves much more efficient lighting, HVAC, and so forth for the new trains than what Amtrak had available when they adopted a higher spec. I'm sure we've had threads somewhere on what the average and peak HEP-supplied power requirements for various types of car are. Does anyone have the patience to cite them here? Or provide the current (no pun intended) figures for modern Amtrak equipment? Each new locomotive will have 1000 kW of HEP available.
To me AAF appears to have embraced the British HST 125 operating model, purchasing what is in effect and updated and Americanised HST 125. Which surprised me as I was expecting them to go push-pull bi-level which is the normal short/medium distance operational model in North America. Is this a statement on the conservatism of the Amtrak and Commuter agencies who for the most part using the C&NW commuter operational model from the 1950's I certainly would be interested any financial analysis between the two operational models over the operational life cycle of the equipment.
Seems to be the case, pretty much. The equipment will follow Siemens designs used in Germany and elsewhere, but be constructed in their factory here. AFAIK, the CB&Q had the first gallery cars in Chicagoland, not the C&NW.
schlimm AFAIK, the CB&Q had the first gallery cars in Chicagoland, not the C&NW.
AFAIK, the CB&Q had the first gallery cars in Chicagoland, not the C&NW.
That is correct, but C&NW was the first to use HEP and run them as push-pulls.
The choice of using a Cummins prime mover is an interesting one (I suspect this is being done more to improve US local content and their large support network in the US over anything else) over either an MTU or the MAN-B&W Paxman 18-VP185 Which in 12 cyl form is well known in the HST125/XPT
Aerial rendering of the MIA Central station (AAF) Certaily can see FECI's real estate thinking.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article2538964.html
Happy they went with Siemens and knew that nobody would take Talgo seriously outside of the Political side.
CMStPnP Happy they went with Siemens and knew that nobody would take Talgo seriously outside of the Political side.
Talgo tilting suspension is designed for a curvy route, the additional expense has no business here or in Chicago Milwaukee service.
gregrudd To me AAF appears to have embraced the British HST 125 operating model, purchasing what is in effect and updated and Americanised HST 125. Which surprised me as I was expecting them to go push-pull bi-level which is the normal short/medium distance operational model in North America. Is this a statement on the conservatism of the Amtrak and Commuter agencies who for the most part using the C&NW commuter operational model from the 1950's
To me AAF appears to have embraced the British HST 125 operating model, purchasing what is in effect and updated and Americanised HST 125. Which surprised me as I was expecting them to go push-pull bi-level which is the normal short/medium distance operational model in North America. Is this a statement on the conservatism of the Amtrak and Commuter agencies who for the most part using the C&NW commuter operational model from the 1950's
Why would a commuter operator want to use a top and tailed operation. Push in gives the commuter a shorter walk to and from the cars at the downtown terminal and the additional HP for higher speeds is not required.
Actually Amtrak uses the top and tailed (UK term) on the Michigan services, will this be the model in Il once there is more 110 mileage?
regarding siemans using cummings diesels. all israel railroad locomotives of whatever manufacture that are currently in operation use usa diesels. the vosslov and alstom locomotives all use emd diesels. there are still a few aclos in local freight and switching.
apparently as prime movers, usa products have a better reputation for reliability than european products -or chinese or whatever
also, 18 years ago when i first moved here to stay, cars on the road were mostly european and japanese. mercedes still domnates the taxi fleets, but otheriwse there are now plenty of chevies and fords, many dfferent sizes and types. but they may be made in europe too.
BuslistActually Amtrak uses the top and tailed (UK term) on the Michigan services, will this be the model in Il once there is more 110 mileage?
Can somebody quote the FRA prohibition of riders in 'power cars' for 125mph+ service? That's probably the reason for AAF using 'top and tail' trains: the quick reversibility of push-pull without a 'cabbage' on one end...
daveklepper regarding siemans using cummings diesels. all israel railroad locomotives of whatever manufacture that are currently in operation use usa diesels. the vosslov and alstom locomotives all use emd diesels. there are still a few aclos in local freight and switching. apparently as prime movers, usa products have a better reputation for reliability than european products -or chinese or whatever also, 18 years ago when i first moved here to stay, cars on the road were mostly european and japanese. mercedes still domnates the taxi fleets, but otheriwse there are now plenty of chevies and fords, many dfferent sizes and types. but they may be made in europe too.
Overmod Buslist Actually Amtrak uses the top and tailed (UK term) on the Michigan services, will this be the model in Il once there is more 110 mileage? Can somebody quote the FRA prohibition of riders in 'power cars' for 125mph+ service? That's probably the reason for AAF using 'top and tail' trains: the quick reversibility of push-pull without a 'cabbage' on one end...
Buslist Actually Amtrak uses the top and tailed (UK term) on the Michigan services, will this be the model in Il once there is more 110 mileage?
From FRA's High Speed Passenger Rail Safety Strategy Novemember 2009 page 17, part 2b. "FRA's regulations for Tier II operations ... Requires that the power cars at the ends of the train exclude passengers". However Tier II covers up to 150 MPH FRA notes the possibility of using higher speed EMU sets that might include occupied end vehicles. FRA goes on to state that "there are no simple answers to the question of whether passenger seating in cab cars is appropriate. The answer will require careful research and full consideration of the operating environment where the transit operates."
Now Everybody KNOWS that passenger trains lose money. What makes the smart people at Fortress Investment Hedge Fund/FEC think that this is any different? I say they build the line run it for a while lose massive amounts of money and then dump it on the state for a profit. Still someone on Wall Street must be a diehard railfan to risk this amount of money in the Hedge Fund at Fortress is still a blessing that i will take.
railtrail Now Everybody KNOWS that passenger trains lose money. What makes the smart people at Fortress Investment Hedge Fund/FEC think that this is any different? I say they build the line run it for a while lose massive amounts of money and then dump it on the state for a profit. Still someone on Wall Street must be a diehard railfan to risk this amount of money in the Hedge Fund at Fortress is still a blessing that i will take.
According to someone close to the action this is a real estate game. Increase the value of their holdings in Miami and elsewhere along the route. Seems a pretty expensive way to accomplish that but we'll see.
Per newswire AAF has stared demolition for its Ft. Lauderdale station. They appear to definitely be going ahead. Any local comment ?
new rendering of FLL station. There is also a link in the link of other artist drawings.
https://us-mg205.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.partner=sbc&.rand=el6u3orhaljqr
West palm beach station construction started with demolition.
http://www.allaboardflorida.com/stations/wpb-station.html
Here is a long ago article on sketched in Financials for the AAF Project. Kind of vague still but gives a clearer overall picture than has been given so far in these forums........
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/print-edition/2013/09/20/will-the-numbers-in-all-aboards.html
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