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Spare passenger equipment

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, March 24, 2014 2:15 PM

schlimm

henry6
Easy.  What Amtrak has gotten has been bare bones because of overall opposition.  If all of Congress and the full force of the Executive branch are or were behind Amtrak, Amtrak wouldn' t be behind.

You are just making excuses.  My point was if Amtrak had been better run with some forethought (not really "vision") about needs, then they would have retained more existing equipment to use as spares, which is, after all, the title of this thread.  

Right.  But don't get "forethought about needs" from bean counters and politicians.who either don't understand passenger trains/railroading or do and want to get right of them.  I'm not making excuses but pointing out the uneven and often non operating railroader oversight of the operation.  Gunn was the best railroader they've had and the pushed him out.   Claytor was an old line railroader but from corporate and not operations, so he appeared to be flat.  Boardman has had both political experiences having worked through transportation and transit agencies and the State of NY before going to the FRA.  Has he been perfect?  No.  But he as lasted better than others because he knows how to step around the cow pies of politics and still keep the machine operating, even progressing.  He has probably gotten more out of Congress with any eye to the future than any other Amtrak leader.  He may not be the contemporary business whip cracker, investor boy by which today's CEO's are measured.  But he does seem to keep Amtrak on track and running while asking for long range help.  And I believe his political background allows him to be heard better than his predecessors. because of that.

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, March 24, 2014 3:27 PM

There were other Amtrak presidents with rail or transit backgrounds, and not just in accounting. Reistrup, Kummant and Warrington come to mind.

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, March 24, 2014 3:48 PM

True. But not  like Joe Boardman who grew up through agencies of  bus transit and airports then into NYS DOT to the US FRA and to Amtrak.  He has worked all levels up to where he is today and has successfully operated these agencies' operations while dealing with political pressures from parties, legislatures, and executive powers  of government and the public....more so than any other Amtrak President I believe.  He has not been perfect but he has been successful in keeping Amtrak running.  One of the things he has been pushing for since the beginning of his tenure is for longer term financing and planning.  I know the likes of Don Phillips aren't as enamoured with him as when he began this job.  But I am not sure, and maybe they aren't sure, of what they expected of  Boardman.  Or what they expected of the politics of the job at this time.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by aegrotatio on Monday, March 24, 2014 11:57 PM
schlimm

Please!!   In the 43 year history of Amtrak, "doing away with service entirely" was on the agenda of POTUS at most 20 of those years, if that many.  And how do you explain the Congressional authorization and Amtrak purchase of Superliners I and II fleets, the Horizon fleet and the Acela fleet?   They surely were given permission to buy an awful lot of cars (~2000) for a terminally ill organization.  Amtrak has no one to blame but itself on this issue, at least.   Facing the truth is the first step in recovery and growth.

Honestly, the government paid for several generations of turbo-powered passenger trains and another several generations of electric locomotives, not to mention diesels. And not to mention the hugely successful Superliner, Amfleet, and Viewliner cars, and the already mentioned Acela and even Metroliner II (Amfleet with AEM-7 locomotives).

This idea that Amtrak was always meant to fail has to be refuted by a clear vision of history, don't you think?

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 4:38 AM

aegrotatio

This idea that Amtrak was always meant to fail has to be refuted by a clear vision of history, don't you think?

No!

The best Amtrak has been able to get out of Congress is lip service abd just enogh $$$ to limp into next year.  The fact that there is even a Amtrak today is a testiment to their employees.

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:14 AM

Amtrak at its inception was to remove the burden of passenger train service and services from the railroads.  Many believed by doing so passenger service would just disappear anyway because there highway and airlines were the only ways man was going to travel anyway so why set up a permanent and long range plan and funding program for passenger trains.   But the public decided they wanted passenger trains and Congress and Presidents have played with it ever since.   Big business freight railroads feel betrayed by the public and government  has placated them by allowing merger after merger after merger. Early on some Congressmen fought for trains to their hometowns for themselves and their constituents despite market research which said not to.  So Amtrak had to proved these routes and trains at a huge loss while research and demand proven routes had to be ignored.  So Amtrak was the celebrated failure the government, the highway and air lobby, and the freight railroads had hoped it would be.  But still the public wanted its passenger trains.  Soon, urban planners and environmentalists were promoting the idea that trains could and should move people in densely populated areas. Slowly minds in Congress and government are coming around the believing in passenger trains.  And slowly the railroads have come around to see where if they play ball they may get a better railroad to serve their customers and money and more cooperation and help from the governments involved.  It doesn't apply to all railroads and not all routes.  But the need for trucks to be taken off highways and put on trains has a profitable ring to it, so the railroads want help, guidance and, hopefully, financial aid, to make it happen; and maybe passenger trains will work into the equations as well.  Amtrak is with us to stay.  But it may change form and purpose from time to time.  Congress is made up mainly of lawyers and moneymen with very little management experience much less railroad freight or, passenger transportation experience,  They are the bean counters who hold the purse strings which are either tied in knots or loosened somewhat with every budget.  No business which is supposed to provide service or products operates on such short term strategy and financial planning and succeeds.  It is a miracle Amtrak has lasted this long.

 

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:36 AM

aegrotatio
schlimm

Please!!   In the 43 year history of Amtrak, "doing away with service entirely" was on the agenda of POTUS at most 20 of those years, if that many.  And how do you explain the Congressional authorization and Amtrak purchase of Superliners I and II fleets, the Horizon fleet and the Acela fleet?   They surely were given permission to buy an awful lot of cars (~2000) for a terminally ill organization.  Amtrak has no one to blame but itself on this issue, at least.   Facing the truth is the first step in recovery and growth.

Honestly, the government paid for several generations of turbo-powered passenger trains and another several generations of electric locomotives, not to mention diesels. And not to mention the hugely successful Superliner, Amfleet, and Viewliner cars, and the already mentioned Acela and even Metroliner II (Amfleet with AEM-7 locomotives).

This idea that Amtrak was always meant to fail has to be refuted by a clear vision of history, don't you think?

Although Amtrak may have been designed/supposed to fail at its inception, that notion was discarded when it started purchasing new equipment (especially after its first diesels, which were chosen supposedly because they could haul freight if Amtrak ceased).   
Some folks want to believe a revisionist/fantasy history.  Sure, Amtrak has been a political football or unwanted child at times, but it has been the recipient of large amounts of subsidy and capital equipment over those 43 years.   Most of its employees have done a good job, along with a lot of payrollers and cranks.   As to henry's despised "beancounters" they don't make the decisions, only provide data to evaluate results and hopefully plan ahead.  As in most operations (sorry Shakespeare!) "the fault, dear henry is not in our stars, but in ourselves."  

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:24 AM

But it isn't how large the subsidies but how intelligent.  If they are band aid applications of money they are expensive and wasteful.  If Amtrak were to be able to make five and ten year plans and get the needed amount of money to apply those plans then the money wouldn't be wasteful and we wouldn't be marching in place all these years.  Amtrak should swim all the waters instead of tiptoe with their nostrils just above the water surface.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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