schlimm Amtrak also carries company supplies in baggage cars. Surely there are better ways to do this.
Amtrak also carries company supplies in baggage cars.
Surely there are better ways to do this.
How does DB do it? Might be worth Amtrak's time to find out.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
DeggestyBaggage cars? they are used by passengers where they are in service.
I think you mean "checked baggage service? It is used by passengers...."
And, I would agree. Checked baggage just might not need baggage cars...particularly new ones. There are other ways to skin a cat.
John WR oltmannd They only change them when: 1. The track goes away. 2. Congress tells them to. 3. Congress yells at them. But Congress does not tell Amtrak to change its ways much less yell at Amtrak. In fact, Congress has been funding Amtrak doing what is is doing now for over 40 years. Congress could appropriate money for Amtrak to institute daytime coach service on certain routes but it doesn't.
oltmannd They only change them when: 1. The track goes away. 2. Congress tells them to. 3. Congress yells at them.
They only change them when:
1. The track goes away.
2. Congress tells them to.
3. Congress yells at them.
But Congress does not tell Amtrak to change its ways much less yell at Amtrak. In fact, Congress has been funding Amtrak doing what is is doing now for over 40 years. Congress could appropriate money for Amtrak to institute daytime coach service on certain routes but it doesn't.
But, you are wrong! How do you think we got the Hilltopper, way back when? Or, the Pioneer? And, why do you think they went away? Is Mica not part of Congress? Doesn't he yell at them for running a "soviet style" RR?
What, exactly, do you think PRIAA 2008 was? It was Congress yelling at them to fix/improve their service - something they should have been doing all along. It was about fixing existing routes.
And, again, I'm not talking about ADDING a daytime NY-ATL train, I'm talking about flipping the schedule on the EXISTING route and adding a stop where a million (really! not hyperbole...) people live within a 10 mile radius.
Amtrak can do this ALL BY THEMSELVES. But, they won't unless # 2 or #3 happen.
Checked baggage is a major selling point, but surely there are other ways to do it than dedicated baggage cars. I use checked baggage on the Crescent when I have the opportunity.
My wife and I did a two week trip to Switzerland and Austria two years ago and did fine horsing the bags ourselves into storage areas. Just don't repeat the mistake the Austrians did on the Jet Trains and put the baggage racks at the center of the cars! Yoiks! Major traffic jams.
Dave Phelps
oltmannd schlimm Amtrak also carries company supplies in baggage cars. Surely there are better ways to do this. How does DB do it? Might be worth Amtrak's time to find out.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Baggage cars made sense in an era when travelers had very large Pullman bags (36") and trunks and there were many Redcaps, etc. Most travelers for the past 30 years travel much lighter, using smaller, lighter bags with wheels. Yet Amtrak places orders for equipment as though this were 1955. Baggage cars, like $15 hamburgers are simply a symbol of what is wrong with Amtrak. Like many institutions (not just governmental ones) it has failed to adapt to changing times. It may prove to be necessary and easier to work around Amtrak to achieve a modern passenger rail system because of its organizational stasis. I think Boardman is trying, but it is an almost impossible task to change Amtrak's antiquated corporate climate.
Getting off topic, but the "$15 hamburgers" are a sign of what's wrong with outsider's views of how passenger railroading should work, not of what's wrong with Amtrak.
Amtrak's right. They provide food service on most trains. Unlike cars and buses, they have the space to provide the service on board without stopping the train. Buses and cars *have* to stop every few hours because people would go nuts if stuck in such cramped conditions (plus, y'know, fuel), and planes tend to provide 100% subsidized food and drink - they don't even pretend they're trying to claw back the costs.
And the hamburger isn't $15. It's closer to $2. It's $15 only in the same sense that the Chevy Volt is $50,000. Sunk costs. Costs of providing things most of which you'd have to provide anyway. Eliminating food service altogether will eliminate some of that extra $13 cost, but not all of it.
Should Amtrak not provide a food service? Only if they earn no revenue from tickets - because there'll be considerably fewer passengers for trains that require you bring everything you want to eat over the next few hours on-board yourself. Why do people think Amtrak provides food service? Did this start after 1971? Was there no food on passenger trains before 1971? Did the NYC or PC somehow run a food service that covered its costs from food prices?
One particularly dumb commercial I saw claimed that Amtrak's food service costs $30M a year in "subsidies". That's under a dollar a passenger. Now, if Amtrak did a one-time increase of $1 across the board for all tickets, would the complaints stop? Of course not, because it would have stopped already - that $1 is already built into the ticket price. Amtrak didn't just inherit rolling stock and train names from the old railroads, it inherited their fare structures too.
The Angus Burger with potato chips is currently $9.75. The $15.00 hamburger comes from an OIG report cited by others earlier. Outsiders? Perhaps if Amtrak listened to outsiders it would be such a mess. Contract out the diner service to various bidders who actually run successful mass food businesses, rather than leaving it to amateurs.
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/27/239/California-Zephyr-Dining-Menu.pdf
squiggleslashGetting off topic, but the "$15 hamburgers" are a sign of what's wrong with outsider's views of how passenger railroading should work, not of what's wrong with Amtrak.
$15 is what it costs Amtrak to serve you the burger, not what they charge!
They LOSE MONEY, and lots of it, serving food to a captive crowd. They do it all themselves.
That, is the point.
squiggleslashEliminating food service altogether will eliminate some of that extra $13 cost, but not all of it.
No. All of it. Commissaries go away. Food service attendants go away. Diners go away. About the only thing left would be the overhead jobs, that should go away, but Amtrak has a poor record of that.
Look what NC does for food service on their trains. It's not provided by Amtrak.
Perfect example:
Similar sized dinner salads.
From the CZ menu:
Vegetarian Southwest Entrée Salad .................... $8.75Crisp romaine lettuce topped with cherry tomatoes,a sweet corn pepper-onion medley, feta cheese andguacamole. Served with choice of dressing and aroll. (595 cal.) (Available with a grilled chicken*** for an additional $3.00.) (110 cal.)
From McDonalds:
Premium Southwest Salad with Grilled Chicken
Slices of tender chicken *** filet, mixed greens, fire-roasted corn, savory black beans, roasted tomatoes and poblano peppers. Sprinkled with cheddar and jack cheeses, chili-lime tortilla strips, a fresh-sliced lime wedge and served with Newman's Own Southwest Dressing.
Amtrak price with chicken: $11.75
McDonalds price with grilled chicken: <$5.00
Amtrak loses money at $11.75. McDonalds at least breaks even.
You don't have to give up food on the trains, just contract it out!!! (and I'm not suggesting McDonalds. How about Darden)
Face it, Don. There are a lot of folks, and not just working at Amtrak, who resist any change or criticism, "Cuz that's the way we do things around here."
oltmannd Perfect example: Similar sized dinner salads. From the CZ menu: Vegetarian Southwest Entrée Salad .................... $8.75Crisp romaine lettuce topped with cherry tomatoes,a sweet corn pepper-onion medley, feta cheese andguacamole. Served with choice of dressing and aroll. (595 cal.) (Available with a grilled chicken*** for an additional $3.00.) (110 cal.) From McDonalds: Premium Southwest Salad with Grilled Chicken Slices of tender chicken *** filet, mixed greens, fire-roasted corn, savory black beans, roasted tomatoes and poblano peppers. Sprinkled with cheddar and jack cheeses, chili-lime tortilla strips, a fresh-sliced lime wedge and served with Newman's Own Southwest Dressing. Amtrak price with chicken: $11.75 McDonalds price with grilled chicken: <$5.00 Amtrak loses money at $11.75. McDonalds at least breaks even. You don't have to give up food on the trains, just contract it out!!! (and I'm not suggesting McDonalds. How about Darden)
Contracted services are not always as inexpensive as you are supposing; especially when you are dealing with mobile services. I would also expect there to be a union fight if it were attempted.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
oltmannd Look what NC does for food service on their trains. It's not provided by Amtrak.
oltmannd And, I would agree. Checked baggage just might not need baggage cars...particularly new ones. There are other ways to skin a cat.
While on the topic of baggage cars, I wonder if the reason that Amtrak is ordering 55 of them is the possible resurrection of express and mail business? I don't recall anyone considering that point.
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