How far way is Israels rail connection with the rest of the world??

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How far way is Israels rail connection with the rest of the world??
Posted by divebardave on Sunday, December 22, 2019 10:21 AM

10,25 or 50 years or the Second Coming when the new Jeruselem comes down from the sky as per Revelation?  "I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=270TG23ZmKc..

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Posted by divebardave on Sunday, December 22, 2019 10:22 AM

I guess in the biblical future everyone will have wings so no need for a subway

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, December 22, 2019 6:44 PM

DBD-- stay in the bar, the Vogons will be by to pick you up. 

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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, December 22, 2019 7:06 PM

Are the Israeli railways standard gauge? 

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Posted by divebardave on Sunday, December 22, 2019 7:31 PM

Sorry about the biblical referances..But the social-political situtuion is perpetual and is so bad that only God that put a end to it. As far as a gauge there are truck changing stations at boarders where trucks are swapped out for the proper gauge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI0_PJvW7x4

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, December 22, 2019 10:39 PM

Well, the Eternal does often work through human beings and nature and scientific advances.

What you need to learn is that before the British appointed as Mufti of Jerusalem in 1926, a man who began corrisponding with Hitler in 1923, Jews and Muslim Arabs generally got along, just as Hindus and Muslims did in India before British Colonial rule.  And the anti-Semtiism of that Mufti soon spread throughout the entire Muslim world, and you might wish to learn what is happening to Christian communities in many of these countries.

Some voices in the Arab world are saying openly that "Maybe we made a mistake."  And those that are religious and think that way have the Koran's Surahs (Paragraphs) 5-20 & 21, 7-137, and 10-93.  Get a good English translation of the Koran and check this for yourself.

I'm already 87, but expect to see peace in my lifetime.

Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, and Israel are standard gauge. Jordan and most of Syria are narrow, but should be and probabliy will be converted to standard.

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Posted by divebardave on Tuesday, December 24, 2019 9:12 PM

 "a man who began corrisponding with Hitler in 1923"---Hitler may have wanted the Jews out of Germany in 1923 but he did not arive at the final solution untill exausting a number of proposals. The British puts caps on Zionist migration starting in the 1910s perhaps to apeal to there Arab Allies who they needed Oil from to run there huge navy.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, December 30, 2019 9:08 AM

Going to some original sources, it is clear that within the House of Lords and within the Colonial Office, there were those who opposed the Balfour Declaration.  They also did not wish Jewish competition for Saudi oil or lots of job oppotunities for Arab workers to compete as far as wages.  So the 1923-on friend of Hitler was a natural allie of these anti-Zionists within the British estaglishment.  Zionism did not start with the Balfour declaration.  Purchase of farm land for Jewish settlers from Eastern Europe started in the 1860's about the same time that the Turks restored Jewish rights to pray at the Western Wall.

I say restored, because originally, Jews helped Muslims in the construction of the Dome of the Rock, 70 Jewish families were invited to return to Jerusalem when Muslims drove out the European Crusaders, the Caliph of Jerusalem made a special trip to the Jaffa dock to greet Jewish refugees from Torquamada's Spanish Inquisition, and Holy Land Jews were represented in the Turkish Parliament (by Rabbi Eliyahu Navon when his son Joseph Navon got the Jaffa - Jerusalem railroad franchise in 1888).

Very much of the last 100 years' Muslim ant-Semitism and anti-Zionism is clearly a transfer of hostility from Eurpeans. including of course Nazis and Russian Comunists.  (Much as a the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion was written by the Tzarist Russian Interior Ministry, so the current Palestinian narative, that Jews have no connection to the Holy Land, that Jesus was a Palestinian, and the Israelis are European Colonialists, etc, was the work of the KGB in total in the period betwen 1948 and the establishment of the PLO when Arafat was actually a KGB employee.)

Most of the Zionist leaders were secular Socialists, with religious Jews being exceptions.  Russia supported the Partition solution and recognition of the State of Israel, with the Czecks supplying arms, to reduce British power and influence, and because they expected Israel to allie itself with the Communist camp.  When the reverse happend, they quickly allied themselves with Nassar'z Egypt and replaced the Arab world Nazi campaign with one of their own.

You are correct about the Final Solution.  Hitler was willing to have Jews immigrate to other continents.  But even in 1923 he was strongly anti-Semitic.

Currently, the situation of Arab-World Christians is very very under-reported in Western newspapers.  Before the Mufti, Christian minorities were generally protected.  The Mufti's xenophobic influence reached some Muslim countries, Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan, only well after WWII.  Morroco, Kazistan, some others, have done a good job of resisting it, and Jews and Christians can continue to live decent lives there.

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Posted by divebardave on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 4:08 PM

 I have some Greek Orthadox freinds and there attitude toward Jews from what little they say is not good. I know Greek Americans in Mass,Upstate NY,Akron OH and Iowa.---all of them are in the food buisness from diners to large scale wholesale warehouses with railroad car sidings.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 9:05 AM

Christian anti-Semitism as part of Christian theology was officially eradicated in the Roman Catholic Church in Pope John'a Vatican II, where it was made perfectly clear that the Jewish People were not responsible for "Deicide."

I certainly sufferd from the kind of anti-Semitisim of your Greek Friends, and the Greek Orthodox Church still has pockets of the Deicide theology.  But my age 8+ brush with near-death was at the hands of Father Coughlen's followers, and he was removed from Priesthood a few months later, although I cannot be sure in any way my own experience had anything to do with his removal.

Jerusalem and other Israeli cities are the only places in the Middle East where municipalities hand out free Christmas trees to those who want them.  In certain other countries nearby, public display of Christmas observation means certain death.  You might see how your Greek friends relate to these facts.

I'm reminded of a true story in my "Jews have Green Hair" book manuscript:

Carl Deutsh was head of an Austrian Jewish hiking club.  They were later than planned in returning from the mountains on one excursion, and asked a farmer for permission to spend the night in his hay loft.   Permission was granted, and in addition, the farmer served them a fine dinner.  Before they left, Carl asked to pay the farmer, and the farmer refused payment.  He said:  “I want to help everybody out who isn’t Jewish.”  Carl:   “Oh?  Have you ever met a Jew?     Farmer:  “No, never.”  Carl:  “Well, look out, Jews have green hair.”  

Carl got to the USA in time to escape the Holocaust, and his son Henry, now retired and living in Florida, is also a railfan, may even read this, and was active in the Electric Railroaders Association.

There are still people, including a minosrity of Protestant churches, that believe if Jews are involved in any sort of quarrel, it must be entirely the Jews' fault.

As a footnote concerning the ERA.  As a member as a teenager, I recall asking Everett White, leader of the campaign to preserve Brooklyn, Manhattan, and The Bronx streetcars (along, of course, with E. J. Quinby), why he didn't raise the  petroleum-independence issue and Saudi anti-Semitism.  His answer: David, I want even anti-Semites to like streetcars."

I'm not so sure, myself.   But I do have the fun of riding Jerusalem's Light Rail. Other dreams will be realized as well.  And to the Christian Evangelist:  The Messiaih will settle the quarrel between us, and meanwhile we can work together to perfect the World.

 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 9:29 AM

daveklepper
And to the Christian Evangelist:  The Messiah will settle the quarrel between us ...

And we can resolve the question whether He comes for the first or the second time then, rather than split hairs about it now...

... and meanwhile we can work together to perfect the World.

One of the chief problems being that, to do that, we have to distinguish the admirable traits of various groups and cultures, and carefully separate them from those that foster divisiveness and selfish thinking masquerading as diversity.

In many cases the future appears to be more and more sparse in its provision for how to discuss this issue fairly and openly, or to be tolerant when it is done in good faith, or to prevent pile-on of organized forces with different agendas.  I think some of those things may need to be addressed before we can properly achieve the kind of tolerance that characterizes a perfected World.

Meanwhile ... can someone keep this thread from being locked by addressing present and future connection of the Israeli rail system to 'the outside world'?

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 10:00 AM

I wish it were simply a matter of geography and physical construction.  Theology seems more important in this part of the World than elsewhere (unless you count the Chinese anti-theology as theology), and the chief obstical to linking up the tracks is the remaining influence of the nefereous Mufti, an influence those Greek food people would seemingly wish to preserve. 

One positive sign is that Israel is now supplying both Jordan and Egypt with natural gas through pipelines.  If pipelines can be connected up, certainly rails can follow.

The Greeks want this gas also.  Turkey so far has seemingly been a problem.  And there are many Greeks and Turks who are not anti-Semitic.

And Overmod, I think that if you could, you also would like to remove the Mufit Haaj Al Husseini's influence after his death some 65 years ago.  He was really the primary teacher of hate to the Islamic World.  Christians, in terms of numbers, have been the greatest victims since WWII.

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Posted by 54light15 on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 11:00 AM

Mr. Klepper- regarding the narrow-gauge railways attacked by T.E. Lawrence, did any of them reach into what is Israel today or were they strictly east of the Jordan river? 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 11:25 AM

A narrow-gauge line existed from Amman to Haifa.  Israel has recently rebuilt Haifa - Beit Shahn in standard gauge, and plans are to extend it into Jordan when there is real peace.

In WWI the Germans had an airbase and army camp at Afula, about midway between Haifa and Beit Shahn.  On days off they used a flatcar with airplane motor and propeller to go to Haifs for wine and women (and song?).

The Jews of the Holy Land were divided.  Some had Turkish citizenship and some of those served in the Turkish army.  Ditto those with German citizenship, including Zionist immigrants.  Many others fought with the British.

Restoration of the rail line aa far as Beit Shahn has now made ancient and quaint Afula into a modern bedroom suburb of Haifa.

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Posted by NKP guy on Sunday, January 19, 2020 12:14 PM

   The New York Times of January 19 has a fine article, "Ghost Rails of the Holy Land"  by Matti Friedman which I commend to others, not only for its interesting history but also for its philosophy: "...and to consider how much is lost when the human mood turns from rails to walls."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/16/opinion/israel-railroad-tracks.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

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