Updating on my suggestions to NYCTA on the 14th Street tunnel reconstruction. Received an informative critique, and on that basis have modified to suggest the C and not the E to Canarsie, with the E running to Euclid instead of the C. Also, instead of dividng the truncated L into three parts, have three truncated "fleeted" L trains closely spaced every 15 minutes. The big question is whether cab signals and ATC can be installed in time between W4 and East New York via the Williamsburg Bridge and the Broadway elevated. Will see if anything good comes of my suggestions.
kgbw49Isn't WMATA the only transit agency run by the Federal Government?
I didn't think it was.
http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/board_of_directors/ and other pages appear to indicate that the entity that runs it is separate from a United States Government agency (accountable to any branch of the Government directly, that is); the Feds even appoint only 1/3 of the directors. In fact I had thought that one of the ongoing threats being made about the "safety" problems on the Metro was that some government agency or other was going to 'take over' and administer carefully-unspecified parts of the operation 'until safety was restored' (or the cows come home, or the double-toothpicks freeze over...)
I do not remember whether there is an equal Federal-level intervention being thought about for Atlanta, and I'm too lazy to go back and check posts here (which is where I got that hazy memory in the first place).
Elsewhere there has, I think, been more than usual care to keep Federal control out of transit, to the extent where states form compacts to provide transit that might otherwise 'legitimately qualify' as interstate commerce (it certainly is more legitimate than the basis for concern with passengers in 'interstate commerce' that prompted the Heart of Atlanta opinions!)
kgbw49 Isn't WMATA the only transit agency run by the Federal Government?
Isn't WMATA the only transit agency run by the Federal Government?
A close friend who has better connections with the actual Subway bosses than I have, proposed a different solution. He favored keeping one tunnel open, like I do, but his reduced service It involved taking west of Union Square on 14th Street out of service, running a basic say every quarter hour service most of the time, but then fleeting only westbound trains during the morning rush with no eastbound service and doing the reverse in the evening rush. The two trackis west of Unions Square (yes there is a sizzors crossover arangement a U. Sq.) would store the fleet during the mid-day for the evfening rush hour. He was tole it was a workable plan but the quality of empoloyees would not be up to it.
I disagree with that last statement, and think his plan is not workable, because the rush hour is long enough that some trains do make two trips during the rush on the L, and so a car shortage would result. And the problem of what replaces the 14th service itself remains, with 14th Street having very heavy traffic during rush hours and the M14 bus thus very slow. The objection raised against his plan could be waged against mine, but I am ready with an answer, Specifically, time table accuracy and response to events depends primarily on the people at the model boards at the Command Center, and they had better well be qualified to use the signal and switch controls properly to implement my plan or the TA and the City have worse problems than Sandy!
You know, I think the wrong person's running the subway.
Don't be surprised if you get a job offer David!
REceived formletter email reply:
Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.
Should explain, the letter was also e-mailed via the comment section of the NYCTA website's Canarsie Line Tunnel recfonstruction page.
I received form a reply from NYCTA already. I honestly expect a positive reply, and would not contact the newspapers. Indeed, my second mailing would be to Mayor de Blaso, and the Borough Presidents of Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens, ---- if necessary. Newspapers would be the last resort.
Wait a week or two, then send a letter to the Times, Post, and Newsday that describes the idea. Stress in the letter the importance of giving as many people as possible the idea of the changes, in the same spirit as the pamphlets or handouts you propose.
Hard copy sent regular airmail yesterday:
דוד לויד בן יעקב יהודה קלפר, ישיבת בית אורות, שמואל בן עדיה 1, הר הזיתים, ירושלים 97400
Riding the subway every day during the 1970's, I can assure you the crises was not that bad. Fortunaely, the system had been bujilt to such high standards that even deferred maintenance did not stop the trainis from running. And before the city took the IRT and BMT systems over, maintenance on the BMT was as high a standard as one could wish, but the IRT was in bankrupcy and did just what was needed to keep things running. The service was generally reliable. Today, in Jerusalem, I could use that reliability for our bus system. Not entirely the bus system's fault, traffic problems, incidents, etc. The light rail runs more reliably, but it also has had outages or partial outages. In the 1970's, Metro North and its predessor operation under Conrail, had problems more often than the subway system, stemming from the PC days. A number of times, say about four during the entire decade. returning from my office near the White Plains North Statiop, we unloaded at Wakefield, and walked over to the Gund HIll Road Station to catch the 2 or 5 sbuway train to comploete oiur journey to Manhattan. And one morning one of my two partners picked me up at the 241wst Street White Plains Rd. (Av.) tp drove tje wokl. In the 80's and up to the time I left in 1996, Metro North, as well as the subway, got lots and lots better.
After the 1980s (except for Sandy, which wasn't their fault), the NYC Subway has been steadily improving and returning to a state of good repair. Metro has done the opposite.
NorthWest Well, part of it is that the NYC Subway has actually kept up with maintenence the last 20 years, unlike METRO...
Well, part of it is that the NYC Subway has actually kept up with maintenence the last 20 years, unlike METRO...
That's not really true in the broader perspective. Sure, you can say New York's MTA has kept up in only the last 20 years, but the reality is that the New York City Subway was falling apart for decades due to deferred maintenance and other problems decades before the City took it over. Hardly anything was rehabilitated since the IND system was developed.
In the 1970s the system was in a crisis. It was literally falling apart and catching fire all day every day. It was orders of magnitude worse than the DC Metro. After the NYC financial crisis was mostly resolved the MTA started on a rebuilding program that is still going on today, over 45 years later.
Guess Metro North has some repairs to make.....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fire-halts-train-yorks-grand-central-terminal-001131622--nfl.html?ref=gs
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I am routing the following suggested plan through a friend in the NYC area who has done consulting for the TA on several projects and supervised construction on several. I hope he likes my plan and forwards it with whatever changes he thinks desirable. Meqnwhile, all of you you can comment on what you think.
The NYCTA has released a very informative video about the repairs needed on the L Train Canarsie Tunnels and the service options.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt_JloKcE7s
CandOforprogress2 Cleveland DC and Baltimore have to shut down there metros for weeks when they need a major repair but NYC can replace tracks while the system is moving. DC needs to contract with NYC for repairs. DC has grown post metro from 600,000 people in 1970 to a Metropoliton Area of 5 Million in 2010.
Cleveland DC and Baltimore have to shut down there metros for weeks when they need a major repair but NYC can replace tracks while the system is moving. DC needs to contract with NYC for repairs. DC has grown post metro from 600,000 people in 1970 to a Metropoliton Area of 5 Million in 2010.
This all depends on WHAT work needs to be done. Working on power feeders or sighanls could very well shut the whole thing down. Tracks can be worked on in between trains, and if a rail is out it will tale less than a half an hour to fix it. Trains can be routed via diferent lines. If an 8th Avenue local track is out, trains can run express or they can run via 6th Avenue. (F) trains have been known to run via the (GG) line if something is amiss on 6th Avenue.
The Sandy Tunnels are a case apart, If you have to do that much work, you do have to close the tunnel and just do the work, maybe 18 month or more.
They did this with the Montague Tunnel, but only the (R) train was really affected by that, at night it could run over the bridge, in the day time, it could short turn at Whatehall in Manhattan, and southbound at come conveinent station in Brooklyn.
Throguh riders would likely switch to the IRT for stops in lower manhattan, passengers for Midtown would have already switched to one of the Bridge lines at DeKalb or at Atlantic.
Systems without geographic redundancy are freash out of luck.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
A friend of mine from high school who wound up working in DC back in the 70's told me the REAL reason they built the Metro was to get the crime off the streets and put it underground.
No, he didn't like DC, AT ALL.
Me, I've always liked Washington, a great walking city with lots to see and do, but then, I don't live there.
When I used to visit New York City in the 1990s, the entire express section of the Flushing Queens Boulevard Line was shut down for rebuilding for almost a decade. The E train was reintroduced as an express.
One of the lines over the Manhattan Bridge was shutdown for over a decade, too.
So, yes, NYC does shut down entire lines, though the Queens Boulevard Line was a four-track line with only two tracks out of service, the local is extremely slow, almost as slow as single-tracking on the Washington Metro.
The Manhattan Bridge rebuild project shut down and rerouted about a half dozen lines.
CandOforprogress2 Firelock76 Well, what can we say? Along with their cops and firefighters, New York's got the best transit people in the world. Mind you, I mean no insult to any of the others by that statement. That is New York Vaules
Firelock76 Well, what can we say? Along with their cops and firefighters, New York's got the best transit people in the world. Mind you, I mean no insult to any of the others by that statement.
Well, what can we say? Along with their cops and firefighters, New York's got the best transit people in the world.
Mind you, I mean no insult to any of the others by that statement.
That is New York Vaules
YUP... NYCT has four track trunks in Manhattan, and even so it is also very fleixble, If something is closed, things can be re routed one line via another route.
Besides, the last time I looked, the also had LIONS in their subways.
CandOforprogress2 With the exception of the North Shore Skokie line when it parreled the Red Line in the north there is not a a express track. However this does not prevent single bi directional tracking
With the exception of the North Shore Skokie line when it parreled the Red Line in the north there is not a a express track. However this does not prevent single bi directional tracking
Apoologies for not being more specific. By "L" line, I was not referring to the CTA, but New York's old No. 16 14th Street Canarsie line. which is two tracks all the way, and where Sandy damage still requires repair in its tunnel under the East River. Passengers from Myrtle Avneue station and east to Canarsie will probably all still be handled by all-railrouting to Manhattan, via the existing J, Z, and M lines. And there may be 14th Street shuttle run only in Manhattan. But that still leaves a few stations without rail sevice that may need bus connections to existing services.
Regarding the CTA, portions of the route shared by Howard Street north-south and Evanston Express, and for a part, Ravenswood, do have four tracks and some major repair and maintenance is possible without complete shutdown. Part of the southern portion of Lake-Engnlewood/Jackson Park has three tracks. The other redundancy is N - S either via the Loop or via the State St. subway. But that is all.
Connecting the complex of lines around DeKalb Avenue (three lines to Coney Island and one to Fort Hamilton) with Manhattan, one can use the north side of the Manhattan Bridge, the south side, or the Montague Street Tunnel. During bridge repairs, one pair of transit tracks on the bridge was shut down, then the other side, and after Sandy, the tunnel. These were all about half-year closings. There is enough reduncancy in the NY system so that what would be a massive shut-down in another city, requiring bus shuttles, can be handled keeping rail connections in New Yorik. There are other examples.
The "L" line shutdown may require some shuttle busses however.
On my last trip to Road America in 2013, the CTA line that runs between the lanes of I-94 on the Southside of Chicago was shut down for major maintenance. I believe it was shut down for several months.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.