Correct. Wages plus benefits.
rjemeryThese required a seven-man crew, the engineer, conductor between the first and second cars, and the five trainmen on the remaining platforms.
Dave. Back then, labor wages were much much lower relative to fares and other costs than they are now.
Mystery solved.
I finally went to my local train station to observe, hear and learn. A bi-level trainset stopped at the station. Doors opened and passengers got off and on. Then the set of eight tweets sounded. It is the warning that the doors are closing.
That sound warning is only on the bi-levels. Single level passenger cars, as noted by another poster earlier, use the double chimes for the door closing warning.
RJ Emery near Santa Fe, NM
daveklepperI am old enough to remember severn-car open-platform "gate trains" on New York's elevated railroads. These required a seven-man crew, the engineer, conductor between the first and second cars, and the five trainmen on the remaining platforms. When the rear trainman, between the 6th and 7th car, got both his gates closed, he would ding-ding on the rear cord on the sixth car for the bell on that car's front bulkhead. Apon hearing that bell, if the fourth trainman had already closed his gates, he would pull the cord at the rear of the fifth car; otherwise he would first close the gates as soon as intending passengers were aboard and then pull the cord. And so on until the conductor heard the bell at the front of the second car, activited by the first trainman, and he would ding-ding the engineer via the cord at the rear and the bell at the front of the first car. The bells were never quite at the same pitch, so standing on the paltform, one heard a sort of melody, with the ding-ding, dank-dank, gong-ong. But it all happened a lot faster than reading this or writing it. And at every station stop.
Most interesting. Thank you for sharing.
I am old enough to remember severn-car open-platform "gate trains" on New York's elevated railroads. These required a seven-man crew, the engineer, conductor between the first and second cars, and the five trainmen on the remaining platforms. When the rear trainman, between the 6th and 7th car, got both his gates closed, he would ding-ding on the rear cord on the sixth car for the bell on that car's front bulkhead. Apon hearing that bell, if the fourth trainman had already closed his gates, he would pull the cord at the rear of the fifth car; otherwise he would first close the gates as soon as intending passengers were aboard and then pull the cord. And so on until the conductor heard the bell at the front of the second car, activited by the first trainman, and he would ding-ding the engineer via the cord at the rear and the bell at the front of the first car. The bells were never quite at the same pitch, so standing on the paltform, one heard a sort of melody, with the ding-ding, dank-dank, gong-ong. But it all happened a lot faster than reading this or writing it. And at every station stop.
Got a rule book pajrr, a Jersey Central rulebook from 1967. Lucked into it at an antique show a few years back and you're right, the whistle signals haven't changed from that day to this, for apparantly just about everyone.
Although I'm sure the CNJ had some procedures exclusive to their own operations.
Not a rail ephemera collector but I couldn't pass that one up.
pajrrHi, Actually page 30 of the document has the signals used between conductor and engineer. On a push-pull train the end with the engineer and the headlight on is the front. A cab car is considered a locomotive
Page 30 of the PDF is page 27 of the document itself. As already stated, the signals listed on document page 27 do not match what I have heard and observed at stations along the North Jersey Coast Line. My main question remains unanswered.
When time permits, I will seek a NJ Transit Rail Rule Book. Perhaps therein the answer will appear. For any given station stop, the number of audible "move on" tweets has never been consistent.
Hi, Actually page 30 of the document has the signals used between conductor and engineer. On a push-pull train the end with the engineer and the headlight on is the front. A cab car is considered a locomotive
Reading the posts herein gave me a clue but the exact communicating signals between conductor and engineer on a push-pull train still elude me. NJ Transit is a participant in the Northeast Operating Rules Advisory Committee (NORAC) and their 2011 rule back can be found at
http://dms.ntsb.gov/public/58000-58499/58167/585157.pdf
Page 27 lists some signals, but they do not match what I have heard and observed at stations along the North Jersey Coast Line.
Firelock76, If you want a good education source get a rule book from a railroad. You can find them on Ebay, sometimes at flea markets. It can be for almost any railroad and any year. I have a 1913 rule book from the New York, Ontario & Western. I have a 2002 NJT rule book. They are 89 years apart, yet most operating rules along with the communication signals are the same. Sure, railroads use radios now, but radios can fail.
The relevant rulebook will have a section on what each signal means in what situation, and what response the Engineer gives on the locomotive whistle. I don't have my old UCOR in with me right now but I believe it has 2 pages worth of signals and their descriptions.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Mr. pajrr, that New Jersey plate avatar tells me you know EXACTLY what you're talking about!
The double tone chimes are the signal that the doors are closing. It is a warning chime that has nothing to do with the train operation. The 2 short buzzers or "pssst" "pssst" after that is the conductor giving the engineer "two to go", a signal that is as old as railroading itself, notifying the engineer that it is safe to move the train. Passenger locomotives have buzzers or air whistles in the cab. The "two to go" means go when the train is standing still. The same signal means stop when the train is moving. There are various other signals that train crews use to communicate different things. Others you might hear are 3 short signals which means "back up" when train is standing still. The same signal when running means "stop train at next station". If you are in a terminal where a train begins its' run (On the NJ Coast Line Bay Head or Long Branch for instance) You may hear 4 short signals. That tells the engineer to set the brakes to make sure they are working properly on the entire train before the train starts its run. The whole train is walked on the outside by the crew, and they are physically looking at the brakes. Once the train is walked, the 4 short signals are given again to release the brakes and the train is walked again. After the train passes this "terminal brake test", the train is ready to start its run.
Just guessing here, but I think the two-pitch double chime is the conductor giving the engineer the "highball," that is all passengers are aboard and it's OK to move, an old traditional signal that goes back to the steam days.
The others I've no clue.
On NJ Transit commuter lines, and especially the North Jersey Coast Line, I am curious about the various conductor audio signals that are heard before a train leaves the station. In some cases, a hear a two-pitch chime, one higher, then lower. At other times, I hear multiple tweets, the number of which I wonder has special meaning. Those tweets could be anywhere from three to eight tweets made in rapid succession.Anyone have an explanation and background for these audio signals?
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