A parallel example. When I was finishing my PhD dissertation, I worked for community mental health, which largely serves folks of limited financial means. As an experiment in reducing no-shows (which waste clinic treatment openings), we tried using a small co-pay. It worked. Having folks pay even a token fee seems to increase their sense of ownership/valuing and thus reduces irresponsible behavior.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
NP Eddie I tried reading that report and gave up. I agree that someone got paid to use too many words and pages (lots of trees used for that report!). Ed Burns
I tried reading that report and gave up. I agree that someone got paid to use too many words and pages (lots of trees used for that report!).
Ed Burns
I gave up, too, and just read the conclusion starting at page 47. Seems like some of the smaller communities saw some success, but the larger systems were overwhelmed. Maybe free rides need to be coupled with preparations like greatly increasing equipment and personnel before trying the policy, but I don't see that happening with the "but what's in it for me?" mentality that seems to be prevalent today.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
DSchmitt 2012 report on fare free transit systems by the Transportation Cooperative Reaserch Progtam sponsored by the Federal Transportation Administration http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/tcrp/tcrp_syn_101.pdf
2012 report on fare free transit systems by the Transportation Cooperative Reaserch Progtam sponsored by the Federal Transportation Administration
http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/tcrp/tcrp_syn_101.pdf
Very interesting report. It contains a lot of good information. One has to wonder if they were paid by the word or the page.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
While the Chicago Transit Authority does not have its own police force, the Chicago Police Department does have a permanent transit detail assigned to cover the CTA. I've noticed that squad cars assigned to the transit detail are in CTA rather than CPD colors.
petitnj The irony of this police force in the Twin Cities is that it didn't exist before 1994. We had buses and trolleys for 100 years and no police. Now we need a major force of 150. I know they do other things but we did fine without them for years.
The irony of this police force in the Twin Cities is that it didn't exist before 1994. We had buses and trolleys for 100 years and no police. Now we need a major force of 150. I know they do other things but we did fine without them for years.
Somehow, doubt the good citizens of the Twin Cities are markedly less law abiding than previous generations. Maybe I'm wrong, but could there be some empire building occurring here? I wonder how it compares to similiar sized operations.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
petitnj Lost fare may seem like a big deal. Let's do the math. Metrotransit estimates between $800K to $1.5M per year. Take the middle ground: $1M. Now to enforce that with 111 full time and 90 part time officers (their numbers http://www.metrotransit.org/transit-police). Call it 150 FTE and multiply by $100K/officer to get $15M -- the cost to try to collect this fare.
Lost fare may seem like a big deal. Let's do the math. Metrotransit estimates between $800K to $1.5M per year. Take the middle ground: $1M. Now to enforce that with 111 full time and 90 part time officers (their numbers http://www.metrotransit.org/transit-police). Call it 150 FTE and multiply by $100K/officer to get $15M -- the cost to try to collect this fare.
If there was no enforcement the losses would be MUCH higher.
Paul of Covington I sometimes wonder what would happen if public transit were absolutely free. The expense of collecting and tallying fares would be gone, and with much more use, the cars that would not be using the roads would decrease the cost of road building and repair. Would we break even, or close to even? Just musing.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if public transit were absolutely free. The expense of collecting and tallying fares would be gone, and with much more use, the cars that would not be using the roads would decrease the cost of road building and repair. Would we break even, or close to even? Just musing.
I made that suggestion a couple of years ago and got a reply from someone who said it was tried in their city and it resulted in the trains being overrun with youngsters who drove the business people away.
I, like you, feel that the cost of maintaining the ticket machines, collecting and accounting for the money, printing the tickets, and enforcement must eat up a huge portion of the fares collected and that free mass transit would benefit the entire community. I wonder how much social services money is spent on transit to and from Dr. appointments, government agencies, and other essential travel. Perhaps advertizing sales could make up some of the loss.
I'm sure that the Transit Police have a lot of other duties besides catching fare evaders.
It is far worse than I thought. The annual cost of the Metrotransit Police is $15M. (Again their numbers: http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_28466867/metro-transit-police-forces-numbers-are-surging-quietly.)
That is nearly exactly $100K/officer. (Sorry my original math was bogus).
I doubt if the pay scale for transit police in the TC is that high, even including benefits. [• Starting rate: $3,800 - $5,413 per month, 2013 Contract]. Nevertheless, your point is well made.
Yes, if you travel on public transit, you should expect to pay in some manner.
UTA's Traxx has no fare collectors on board (buy a ticket before boarding, or else have a pass in your possession). There is enforcement with more or less roving employees who ask for proof that fare has been paid.
Johnny
ALL:
I worked a transit route in Minneapolis for 14 months. My bus had a farebox so everyone paid. The Blue and Green (light rail) lines use the honor system. As stated in my original post. All revenue riders need to pay period.
"osted by BaltACD on Monday, December 21, 2015 4:57 PM
What is the TC Transit users racial composition?"
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Found study (pdf) through Google search. Do Google search for "twin cities transit ridership ethnicity". Cannot post link that works:
Discussion of ethnicity page 18.
What is the TC Transit users racial composition?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Twin Cities is not alone
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/commuting/vre-cracks-down-on-fare-evasion-other-offenses/2011/08/19/gIQAcKyiQJ_story.html
Human nature being what it is there's always going to be someone who's going to try to beat the system, or thinks he's above it.
It's not a racial thing, it's a self-centered idiot thing.
The original post to that subject contained many items that were not necessary.
Bottom line=if you don't pay your fare, you may be issued a ticket. This is NOT a racial issue, but an issue of fairness. Why do certain groups feet they are exempt from paying a fare????
Ed Burns (my real name) from Anoka, MN
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