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LA Orange Line Busway? I hear that it does not work well at all

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Posted by trackrat888 on Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:20 PM

Confused"@trackrat888, MGLEE appears to be short for 'Metro Gold Line Eastside Extension' and I've only seen this acronym used in this post!"

Trackrat- Oh now I seeConfused

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Posted by MikeF90 on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:48 PM

@daveklepper, there are only a few grade separations on the Blue Line.

sigengr
As far as safety goes, the Blue Line is the most dangerous one in LA.  It may have more fatalities than any line in the USA.  That didn't stop Metro from putting MGLEE and Crenshaw partially in streets.

Don't put too much of the blame on the grade crossing design. South L.A. has a particularly clueless demographic when it comes to driving. Still, I wonder why more of the crossings don't have four quadrant protection ....... answer, Metro would be spending a fortune replacing them every few days.

@trackrat888, MGLEE appears to be short for 'Metro Gold Line Eastside Extension' and I've only seen this acronym used in this post!

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 7:07 AM

CCHEG: SUBSTATIONS CAN BE FARTHER APART IF THERE IS HEAVIER OR MORE, REALLY PARALLEL, FEEDER CABLE.   THE THREE AND A HALF RULE IS NOT SET IN STONE.   OF COURSE DOUBLING THE VOLTAGE, GOING TO 1500VOLTS, ALLOWS DOUBLING THE DISTANCES WITH THE SAME FEEDER CABLE, OR NONE.  HEAVY USE REQUIRS FEEDER CABLE.   WITH LIGHT TRAFFIC, THE CATENARY ITS ITS OWN FEEDER.   A FOUR TRACK HEAVY SUBWAY LINE AT 600 VOLTS MIGHT REQUIRE A SUBSTATION EVERY HALF MILE

SO MODIFYING YOUR STATEMENT, THE NUMBER OF SUBSTATIONS REQUIRED IS  BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF CURRENT REQURIED TO OPERATE THE LINE AND THE RESISTANCE DROP PER UNIT DISTANCE FOR THE CATENARY OR THIRD RAIL AND THE PARALLEL FEEDER CABLE IF ANY.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:57 AM

FROM MY DIM MEMORIES OF RIDING THE LINE, MOST OF THE BLUE LINE IS GRADE SEPARATED.  DO MOST OF THE INCIDENTS OCCUR ON THE STREET RUNNING PORTION IN LONG BEACH?

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Posted by trackrat888 on Monday, February 16, 2015 11:17 PM

MGLEE ? sorry but what is that?

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Posted by sigengr on Monday, February 16, 2015 10:47 PM

All the Orange Line crossings are protected by traffic signals.  This isn't any different from the Gold Line Eastside Extension light rail line.  There was a study to put gates on the MGLEE, but it was purely politically motivated.  It would have put road traffic on 3rd Street at a standstill and the cost would have been comparable to grade separation.

As far as safety goes, the Blue Line is the most dangerous one in LA.  It may have more fatalities than any line in the USA.  That didn't stop Metro from putting MGLEE and Crenshaw partially in streets.

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Posted by trackrat888 on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 11:14 AM

Well high speed busways need the same gate protection that trains do. Pittsburghs  3 1/2 busways are grade seperated so its not much of a issue. Orange Line has many crossings at grade. The NJ Camden Riverline is a Class 2 freight railroad under FRA Jurisdiction

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Posted by gardendance on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 9:30 AM

Mapquest tells me the route is less than 19 miles, so that's 6 or 7 substations if CSSHEGEWISCH is right. Does anybody disagree with him? So how big do the substations need to be, and is daveklepper correct that they "can be in underground vaults, even vaults under the tracks, or even on bridges spanning the tracks"? If so, I don't see substations as a big concern.

By the way, let's get back to the original post, "Because of grade crossing and a number of accedents have occured.". How is that unique to busways? I already mentioned my own NJ Transit Riverline, which in my opinion has few grade crossings, at least compared to countless other light rail lines, such as Houston, Philadelphia's suburban Media and Sharon Hill lines, all of Boston's light rail, just to name a few. Are we to conclude that those don't "work well at all"?

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 7:07 AM

The number of substations required is based on the amount of current required to operate the line.  Assuming that the current is low-voltage direct current, subs need to be about 3-5 miles apart.  Voltage drops due to resistance in the wiring become an issue if the substations are further apart.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 4:15 AM

Don't have to be. If it is expensive to construct substations, use larger and more feeder cable, with the balance of expense of feeder cable and that of the substations determining the spacing.  Substations can be in underground vaults, even vaults under the tracks, or even on bridges spanning the tracks.

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Posted by gardendance on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 3:54 AM

Why do substations have to be on the right of way? Why do they need a lot of substations?

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Posted by sigengr on Monday, February 9, 2015 6:20 PM

It works about as well as it can.  The number of (busy) street crossings and terminal space at North Hollywood are pretty strict limits on capacity.  Light rail would increase capacity per vehicle without a huge impact on cross traffic.  I think a turnback at North Hollywood coule be put in the same space as the bus loop.  There aren't a lot of good places for substations along the right of way.

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Posted by 081552 on Sunday, February 1, 2015 12:29 PM

I spend a lot of time reading Metro documents and there is no funding planned for a conversation of the Orange Line into a light rail line. The Orange Line has about 25k boardings daily. Metro rail and bus ridership is shown on the link below.

http://www.metro.net/news/ridership-statistics/

 

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Posted by Metro Red Line on Friday, January 30, 2015 2:39 PM

It's not that bad, however, the weakness of the buses is that they can only hold so much capacity before bunching up. I'm quite sure that this would get an LRT conversion within the next decade or so.

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Posted by trackrat888 on Friday, January 16, 2015 12:52 PM

Yep If they had RR Crossing Gates like a real railroad this would not be so much of a problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWkPVkNN5_0&list=PL0D8E1D87131BEA1A&index=5

 

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Posted by MikeF90 on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 3:49 PM

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-valley-rail-20140712-story.html

Hopefully a LR upgrade will come to pass. In the meantime, the buses seem to be well patronized. Grade crossing incidents have calmed way down since the early 'driver training' period in 2005. Metro has plenty of Orange Line videos if you care to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0D8E1D87131BEA1A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH8e3_w8owA&list=PLli3M8RkN4llDMhrjKFf5GQB0WypYShP6&index=3

The extension to Chatsworth, which follows the original SP ROW, opened on 30 June 2012.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGMFLW5BBtg

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Posted by gardendance on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 7:05 PM

vsmith
Not to mention people using the bus lanes as a short cut or just driving on them by mistake.
 

That's not unique to busways. Twice my New Jersey Transit Riverline train trip got delayed because someone drove their automobile onto the railroad right of way.

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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 5:51 PM
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-valley-rail-20140712-story.html The latest on the Orange line, it may soon go light rail.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 5:49 PM
Not to mention people using the bus lanes as a short cut or just driving on them by mistake.

   Have fun with your trains

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LA Orange Line Busway? I hear that it does not work well at all
Posted by trackrat888 on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 2:21 PM

Because of grade crossing and a number of accedents have occured.

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