Why don't they just close up a route of streets and make them a light rail ROW?
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
f45gnbn If the light rail is so good why do I a MN taxpayer have to fund it? Why not run northstar trains on the TC&W line rather than a new light rail? Why not Find a private business to run it if its so good? Or why don't they give twin cities businesses an incentive to move outstate where there is plenty of infrastructure and dying towns due to lack of jobs. The northstar and Hiawatha lines have done nothing to help with traffic congestion. driving hiawatha is worse now than b4 light rail was built and hwy 10 and i94 are still jammed in the mornings. We need outstate jobs where people want to live.
If the light rail is so good why do I a MN taxpayer have to fund it? Why not run northstar trains on the TC&W line rather than a new light rail? Why not Find a private business to run it if its so good? Or why don't they give twin cities businesses an incentive to move outstate where there is plenty of infrastructure and dying towns due to lack of jobs. The northstar and Hiawatha lines have done nothing to help with traffic congestion. driving hiawatha is worse now than b4 light rail was built and hwy 10 and i94 are still jammed in the mornings. We need outstate jobs where people want to live.
Because it's good for the general financial health of the community. When our light rail project was being planned, the people who oppose every publicly funded project made the exact same statements. The now operating Blue line is exceeding all the ridership projections and they are now realizing that they should have made the parking lots and station platforms larger. The rail project will not magically eliminate the traffic congestion on parallel highways, but neither will building another lane and tearing up the highway to widen it will make traffic much worse for several years.
The building boom is resuming.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/10/10/4378397/light-rail-brings-apartment-boom.html#.UlgvqCrD_IV
Driving through South End these days is like touring one giant building site, with eight apartment and mixed-use complexes under construction and two more on the way. When the current projects are complete, they’ll add more than 1,700 apartment units to the corridor. Three others, including Fountains, have opened in the past year.
The Lynx light-rail line is the engine behind much of the construction. The recovery of the homebuilding industry is behind the timing.
...Fountains – with one-, two- and three-bedroom units renting from $950 to $1,900 – has filled 204 of its 208 units since opening at the end of May, said Proffitt Dixon managing partner Stuart Proffitt.
...The boom in residential development is expected to double the neighborhood’s population of about 3,200 by the end of 2015, Smith said. And the population growth is driving business growth: A 55,000-square-foot Publix supermarket is under construction on a 4-acre lot at 2300 South Blvd.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Re: the TC&W ROW- There was (in days gone by), enough room for 2- 2 track RR's , and room for a path too.As for the bike path, my earlier comment on the needs of the few...........still holds I'm getting my info from GOOGLE Earth.
Use of the" Trench" that parallels Lake St. would be a win-win for everyone, as it would give TC&W the potential for better interchange w/ BNSF , & perhaps CP & UP. In that case, the light rail could go as planned to the terminal. Major costs would be laying of track in the trench, & crossings @ grade at Hiawatha ave. The track connection would be at Midway for interchange.
One other point worth considering: TC&W does not have an overwhelming level of traffic. The Milwaukee line was originally double track, triple in spots. Could be that the configuration could be 1 trk TC&W, 2 Trks Light rail, and a bike path too.
The vote on a route was just delayed for "at least 3 months" as alternative routes are studied. Add another couple of hundred million to the cost and another year of haggling. All of your suggestions are great, but there is not enough room on the existing ROW to accommodate 3 rails and a trail. And once a trail is created it is nearly impossible to reroute.
An alternative would be to take the line east from the Lake Calhoun area to the existing Hiawatha "Blue Line". This would add nearly 15 miles to the route and overload an already busy light rail line.
I really don't see the "Hassle" in all this.
1. The "rails to trails" system was to preserve the ROW in case of future needs/use. (unless I have this mixed up with "rail Banking") In this case, "the needs of the many, should take precedence over the needs of the few".
I mention this because the ROW for the M&St.L parallels the TC&W from Hopkins to West lake st. There's sufficient room to construct a light rail , allow for the TC&W 's ROW, and EVEN ride a bike or two along it. (AND,there are no really notable areas to claim NIMBY)
The TC&W's ROW is sufficient to allow a parallel ROW for Light Rail, from Hopkins to Minnetonka (Nee Glen Lake.), and further , to Victoria & more
2. The suggestion to use the MN&S ROW by the TC&W, is kinda "dumb" It probably would be feasible for a streetcar, but not a freight railroad. However, what's wrong with routing the light rail over it?
3.Is there something wrong with re-occupying the " trench" that extends from Lake of the Isles to Hiawatha, and to the Mississippi.? In Milwaukee days it was double tracked, but I doubt that would be necessary given TC&W's current traffic load. Back in the day, I don't think anyone fussed about freights running over that route.
FWIW, San Diego light rail shares tracks with a freight operation. Separation is by time; the freights run only at night after the light rail has quit.
Don M.
Not enough space between the housing along that line. That would be 1 trail, 1 rail and two light rails. The regional commission voted OK, but still needs individual approval of the suburbs and Minneapolis. Won't happen.
The best answer would be for all three to share a trench, three tracks if one can accomodate all freight, otherwise four. Might take some houses but leave the community better off than continuing anything on grade.
The TCW line runs through the wealthiest part of town. That rail corridor is already rail and a trail. Many Minneapolis houses would have to be bought to widen it. One proposal was to put the light rail in a tunnel under all of this but that would add $300M. There is another rail line (ex Minneapolis Northfield and Southern) that passes over the TCW but it is a very lightly traveled line that the CP takes a couple cars down to Bloomington every day. To reroute the TCW over MNS would route large trains over a line that weaves thru the neighborhoods and very near the high school. The TCW wants much of that line straightened out which would also take many homes. This would be the ideal option for the light rail, but who knows how this will be settled. See www.swlrt.org
Cannot the freight railroad and light rail share the existing RofW? Is there no way it can be widened to accomodate three or four tracks?
The mayor is in his last term and lives too close to the proposed line. His neighbors are all millionaires and he doesn't want to have to live with them if he votes for a blue collar light rail through their neighborhood.
This will be very interesting. The first light rail (downtown Minneapolis to the airport) took 40 years to build. The next to St.Paul took 10 years. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to settle this.
Firelock76 Certainly it's better to find common ground, it always is. The problem is so much of NIMBY-ism amounts to "I've got mine, and to hell with you!"
Certainly it's better to find common ground, it always is. The problem is so much of NIMBY-ism amounts to "I've got mine, and to hell with you!"
Perhaps the TC light rail folks need to see how Portland did it. There, living near the rail is considered desirable by the residents. Perhaps they had more input and didn't feel like it was shoved down their throats.
There does seem to be a double standard that operates in relation to this. When residents complain about increased traffic and noise on a freight line, the Nimby's are told, "Shut up. The railroad was there first." But when you want to add new rail ROW, it doesn't matter that the Nimby's were there first.
To negotiate, you have a facilitator put each party in the other guy's shoes. Otherwise it is just folks shouting.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
The Twin Cities and Western is the railroad whose access to the BNSF main line will be affected by the light rail corridor. They just released a report listing the economics of their customers. This report is to justify expenditure of funds to reroute TCW and not lose this valuable transportation resource.
And the suburb affected by rerouting TCW just lost houses and commercial properties in the most recent upgrade of Interstate 394. No complaints; just folks taking their generous buy-outs and leaving.
Ultimately, light rail is designed to serve the people who live near the route. It is a different matter than the other examples, because it isn't involved in interstate commerce. I believe it serves no purpose to dismiss this as NIMBYism. There are two sides (at least) and both have valid arguments. it is far better to find common ground.
Americans are frightened of change. I don't care what project you propose, the NIMBYs and BANANAs will come out of the woodwork like cockroaches and drive the cost into the stratosphere with law suits and hearings and studies all the while screaming about their property values. It doesn't matter if it's a road, a freeway exit, a rail project, a department store, a new drive up window, etc. You cannot make NIMBYs happy, you have to eventually just run over them or nothing will ever get built.
The metro council committee voted for the shallow tunnel through Minneapolis, but there are doubts that St. Louis Park and Minneapolis will approve the plans. State law requires that towns affected approve the plans. Why isn't that the law for roads? Cities always approve roads for fear that the Department of Transportation will not approve other expenditures to maintain their roads.
Everyone wants light rail -- just through someone else's backyard.
The latest proposals to route a light rail thru Minneapolis and its inner suburbs was put back under study last week as no one wants either the light rail or the re-routed freight trains thru their neighborhoods. The study committee proposed shallow tunnels thru Minneapolis so that existing freight trains and bike trails could be maintained. Unfortunately, that boosted the price to $1.5B (plus). I don't know what these suburbs want, but our inner ring suburbs are dying as roads slowly expand to eat all their taxable property. But the suburbs don't want the freight trains and the cities don't want the light rail.
Recent studies have shown that our existing light rail (which took 30 years to get built) has attracted very significant housing and development. Too bad the suburbs affected by the Southwest Corridor cannot see the benefits of getting this project done.
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