For many years New Jersey workers commuted by ferry to Manhattan. Ferries had served us since we we a colony and, in 1867 Jay Gould and Jim Fisk used a ferry to escape Cornelius Vanderbilt's hired judge. But by the 1960's wiser heads prevailed. Ferries were old fashioned and were abandoned.
By the 1980's Arthur Imperatore questioned that. He started New York Waterways, a ferry service, and now it is so successful New Jersey Transit is using it because the Lincoln Tunnel has become so congested that a ferry across the Hudson is actually faster than its buses out of the Port Authority Bus Terminal. There are already ferry terminals in Manhattan and New Jersey; now New Jersey Transit will provide buses to meet them and take people home from work.
This is reported in today's Star-Ledger: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/05/pilot_program_offers_commuting.html#incart_river_default
If it weren't for the Hudson River, those ferries would have a hard time operating!
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
The ferries were abandoned because they were expensive to operate. CNJ's ferries were abandoned because of the Aldene Plan and the closure of the Jersey City terminal. EL's ferries were discontinued because there was an existing alternative with PATH between Hoboken and Manhattan.
"But by the 1960's wiser heads prevailed. Ferries were old fashioned and were abandoned."
Disagree with that assumption. There was an all out effort by the railroads to abandon all passenger services, commuter and otherwise, and the ferries were one of the costliest parts: boats, piers, docks, headhouses (real estate), labor. So as people turned to autos to commute, passenger loads diminished, services discontinued. And Arthur Imperatore suffered huge losses for a long time...I don't know if he's breaking even yet or not. And today's ferries and services are far different than those of the past. Smaller boats but higher fares than, say, bus or PATH or Midtown Direct. Certainly quicker than sitting in the Lincoln or Holland tunnels in traffic jams and more personal room than the sardine like packing of a PATH train at rush hour. It is a good service, one that should be explored and used more. Even if one takes advantage of the "cruise" like atmosphere of sea air and the usual calmness of water travel. The more that do use the service, the better chance the price might come down.
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It's all about capacity, really. Not so much about "good" and "bad" decisions.
The big boats came with big issues: They required big engines, an engine room crew, a deck crew, a bridge crew. The smaller faster boats carry fewer people, but require a crew of only one or possibly two. And they probably are not union either.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
CSSHEGEWISCHThe ferries were abandoned because they were expensive to operate.
Yes you are right, Mac. And I certainly don't fault the private companies. They were really economically dependent on carrying coal from the mines to the port of New York as well has supplying it to homes, businesses and factories for heating and power. And all of that was gone by the 60's. And they were loosing their shirts in the commuter business.
But if government mad stepped in a little earlier it might have replaced the ferries with smaller, more efficient ones suited to customer demand. As far as CNJ is concerned I think the Aldene plan was and is the best option.
John
henry6And Arthur Imperatore suffered huge losses for a long time...I don't know if he's breaking even yet or not.
Henry,
Can you expand on this point? Arthur Imperatore has been operating ferries for a long time now. If they run at a loss where does he get the money to do it?
About twenty years ago I was showing one of my railfan videos to a friend who grew up in the era of steam trains and Hudson River ferrys. He was absolutely captivated by what he saw, and how the memories came back to him, especially of the river and the ferrys.
"Tommy", I asked him, "did you ever think the world would change as much as it has?" "No, never" he said. "Do you think it's changed for the better?" "HELL NO!!!"
Firelock76"Tommy", I asked him, "did you ever think the world would change as much as it has?" "No, never" he said. "Do you think it's changed for the better?" "HELL NO!!!"
All in all I can't say that, Wayne. I would like a world that is as good as we can make it. From a transportation perspective we could certainly be doing a better job. And in my (not very) humble opinion a better job would include more rail transit to reduce our automobile dependency.
But I have alread written about standing on the New Haven Railroad from Providence to New Haven. And I can also recall riding the Edison Electric Cars out of Hoboken, standing in the vestibule, doors wide open and looking down at the river many feet below. Things are not as good as I would like but they are a lot better than they used to be.
There have been attempts to stop service at various times. It has not been an overwhelming nor quick success. He had to pull back some services and wait for subsidies and help. He has hung in there well and deserves all the praise in the world.
Thanks for the extra detail, Henry. As you point out, he has hung in.
Between the PATH trains and MIdtown Direct service I can see train ferries are not all that important. But ferries from Manhattan to connect with buses could really change things a lot. John
I'm not saying they aren't important. In fact I feel just the opposite....it is a service choice; for some the choice while for others alternate choice. The question is how can he attract more customers, what marketing does he have to do, to pay his bills?
henry6I'm not saying they aren't important. In fact I feel just the opposite....it is a service choice; for some the choice while for others alternate choice. The question is how can he attract more customers, what marketing does he have to do, to pay his bills?
Henry, I agree with you about riding a ferry being a service choice. And I think most commuters look at the speed of their trip. Water transportation has always been a slow choice relative to rail or road transportation. But today our roads are so congested that water has become faster than roads in and out of Manhattan during the rush hours. And building more roads is not an option because once those roads get to Manhattan there is no place to go.
This is a comment about the mess we have gotten ourselves into because of our unbalanced reliance on road transportation. Of course, Manhattan has special conditions it that it is a very large urban area. Other large urban areas share those conditions but dispersed suburban areas do not. John
Ferry crossing and PATH times are virtually the same...10 to 15 minutes from Hoboken for instance....
The ferries do connect with NJT trains at Hoboken, not just buses. A lot depends on where in Manhattan you work. If you work near one of the Hudson River terminals, the ferry is a good bet. Near Penn Station or further uptown, Times Square or Grand Central areas, then NJT train to Penn or bus to PA Terminal is better. Union Square or garmet district, So Ho, Chelsie, Grammercy, or WTC and financial district, PATH. And a few days every winter the ferries are cacelled because of ice.
The big ferries are still used by New York;s Department of Marine Transportation between South Ferry and St. George, Staten Island, where one can ride TA buses to all parts of Staten Island or the SIRT ex-subway R-46 cars to Tottenville on a route not far from the eastern shore.
Things are quite different on the water than years ago. Hoboken is the only NJ port with NJT rail connections. All other ports serve communities and might make conntections to HBLR, buses, or PATH. NY Waterways also connect Manhattan to Long Island and cross the Hudson upstream at Havastraw I believe. Not all train schedules at Hoboken are met by boats but service is frequent during peak rush hours. And ride costs are high compared to PATH or bus, could be as much as $12 one way I'm told, well over 5 for the the most part. A little high for a 15 minute ride in some people's minds.
henry6And ride costs are high compared to PATH or bus, could be as much as $12 one way I'm told, well over 5 for the the most part. A little high for a 15 minute ride in some people's minds.
True enough, Henry. I would not consider a ferry from Hoboken except as an occasional treat where I wanted the experience. But for regular going into the city I would choose Midtown Direct or the PATH
On the other hand,if I worked in Manhattan and commuted by bus and I could save 15 minutes each way by using a ferry New York Waterways would look pretty attractive. And the traffic backup at the Lincoln Tunnel and Route 3 can be a lot worse than 15 minutes.
I recall in the 1940's that the West Shore RR (NYC) steam trains would come under the Palisades in a tunnel and end at a terminal at the foot of 48th Street, Union City. The NYC ferries, steam powered, oil-burning, carried both passengers & cars. In addition, Public Service trolleys also came down the hill, by a road (separated by a concrete wall), and turned at the terminal. On the NYC end, the 42nd St trolleys ended across 12th Avenue from the ferry terminal. The steam locos were serviced just outside the terminal.
The DL&W, Erie, & CRNJ also ran ferries. As I recall, the CRNJ ferries were coal burners.
In the DL&W Hoboken terminal, the NY Society of MOdel Engineers has a superb O-gauge layout. I still have the track plans.
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