Trains.com

Signal problems on CSX slowing passenger rail

13087 views
54 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2008
  • 1,112 posts
Posted by aegrotatio on Thursday, June 7, 2012 10:21 AM

PTC is forcing some new excitement in the world of signal communications.

Rather than point-to-point radio, railroads are experimenting and some are implementing a specialized version of the GSM mobile phone system just for railroads called GSM-R.  A system also being put in place are VSAT satellite terminals but the rain fade problem with satellite signals makes me doubt their viability.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 26, 2012 4:47 PM

blue streak 1

 BaltACD:

Signal trouble was vandalism to the signal equipment at Carroll's control point in Baltimore.  4 Camden line trains did not operate on time - 1 was 14 minutes late and the other 3 were less than 5 minutes late.
 

 

 

BaltACD: Thanks now another today THUR.

Brunswick Line train 874 (5:25 am Martinsburg departure) is approaching Brunswick station 10-12 minutes late due to signal problems west of the station.

While MARC may have reported it to their audience as signal trouble - P874 was Efficiency Tested between Martinsburg & Brunswick.  When E-Testing is done, both CSX & MARC officials take part in the testing.  The same thing occurs with VRE when they are E-Tested.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, April 26, 2012 11:02 AM

BaltACD

Signal trouble was vandalism to the signal equipment at Carroll's control point in Baltimore.  4 Camden line trains did not operate on time - 1 was 14 minutes late and the other 3 were less than 5 minutes late.
 

 

BaltACD: Thanks now another today THUR.

Brunswick Line train 874 (5:25 am Martinsburg departure) is approaching Brunswick station 10-12 minutes late due to signal problems west of the station.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 26, 2012 6:59 AM

Signal trouble was vandalism to the signal equipment at Carroll's control point in Baltimore.  4 Camden line trains did not operate on time - 1 was 14 minutes late and the other 3 were less than 5 minutes late.

blue streak 1

Another signal delay on the Camden line this morning.

All Camden trains are expected to operate 12-15 minutes late due to a signal problems north of St. Denis station. Updates will follow as information is made available.

 

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 12:06 PM

blue streak 1

 As I posted earlier the track geometry and rail integrity tests eastbound track found a lot of rail problems.  CSX has posted speed limits on different sections of that track until they are all repaired.  Delays to MARC usually 10 - 15 minutes with occasional 30 minute delays.

CSX is now replacing much of the eastbound track on the Brunswick line.

Another signal delay on the Camden line this morning.

All Camden trains are expected to operate 12-15 minutes late due to a signal problems north of St. Denis station. Updates will follow as information is made available.

 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
signal problems on CSX slowing pass rail
Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:07 AM

n012944

 

Short of a bunch of broken rails, one thing should really have nothing to do with the other.  Has anyone said what these signal problems are?  Are they really an issue with the signal system, of is it something like grade crossings malfunctioning, and the delays from slowing down and or flagging crossings are being reported as signal delays.  If that is not the case, the only other thing I can think of to cause this many delays would be if this is code line territory.  Code line breaks quite often during bad weather, and the meth heads love to steal it and sell it for scrap.

Cannot answer the code line question.  Anyone know.  As I posted earlier the track geometry and rail integrity tests eastbound track found a lot of rail problems.  CSX has posted speed limits on different sections of that track until they are all repaired.  Delays to MARC usually 10 - 15 minutes with occasional 30 minute delays.

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: The 17th hole at TPC
  • 2,283 posts
Posted by n012944 on Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:25 PM

It must be nice.  Much of the old C&O on the west side is still old codeline.  The ex PM lines across Michigan are really bad, although CSX has been slowly changing it out to radio code.

An "expensive model collector"

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 19, 2012 8:48 PM

Code Lines in today's (at least CSX) is somewhat of a misnomer.  Most control points have become radio controlled in the field, however, to effect this radio control from the CADS computer in Jacksonville the commands are sent via commercial telephone lines to various radio control 'hubs' that service one or more control points.  Despite having decentralized the dispatching offices, CSX runs the CADS computer from a centralized location; each decentralized office also has computer hardware that can be used for back-up purposes in the event of a catastrophic failure in Jacksonville (in 23 years of my personal experience - there has only been 1 incident that caused CADS failure and that was a computer virus that crippled the CSX Main Frame computer and created communications issues that crashed the CADS system)

98% of the Code Failure that is seen is a failure of the commercial telephone circuit(s) that affect a particular radio node.  It is difficult to infect Verizon, or the other telephone carriers with the railroads sense of urgency in getting the telephone problems diagnosed and corrected.

There are still wire thieves that disrupt operations at some sites, as even in radio code sites there may be need to run wire circuits from one end of a siding to the other; or other similar type situations.

n012944

 blue streak 1:

CSX had a track inspection vehice on the eastbound Brunswick line yesterday ( unknow if FRA or private ) and the number of slow orders placed is causing delays today of up to 30 minutes.  Makes one wonder if maybe these track defects could have caused some of these intermitttent signal delays past few months  ??  

 

Short of a bunch of broken rails, one thing should really have nothing to do with the other.  Has anyone said what these signal problems are?  Are they really an issue with the signal system, of is it something like grade crossings malfunctioning, and the delays from slowing down and or flagging crossings are being reported as signal delays.  If that is not the case, the only other thing I can think of to cause this many delays would be if this is code line territory.  Code line breaks quite often during bad weather, and the meth heads love to steal it and sell it for scrap.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: The 17th hole at TPC
  • 2,283 posts
Posted by n012944 on Monday, March 19, 2012 2:55 PM

blue streak 1

CSX had a track inspection vehice on the eastbound Brunswick line yesterday ( unknow if FRA or private ) and the number of slow orders placed is causing delays today of up to 30 minutes.  Makes one wonder if maybe these track defects could have caused some of these intermitttent signal delays past few months  ??  

Short of a bunch of broken rails, one thing should really have nothing to do with the other.  Has anyone said what these signal problems are?  Are they really an issue with the signal system, of is it something like grade crossings malfunctioning, and the delays from slowing down and or flagging crossings are being reported as signal delays.  If that is not the case, the only other thing I can think of to cause this many delays would be if this is code line territory.  Code line breaks quite often during bad weather, and the meth heads love to steal it and sell it for scrap.

An "expensive model collector"

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 19, 2012 2:39 PM

Bowie on the NEC is Amtrak maintained.

blue streak 1

TODAY MONDAY ANOTHER SIGNAL PROBLEM AT Bowie on CSX.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
signal problems on CSX slowing pass rail
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, March 19, 2012 10:10 AM

From VRE monday morning

CSX Signal Problems

 

CSX is currently experiencing issues with their signal system at AF. As a result, Train 330 is being delayed into Alexandria. The train is currently operating 26" behind schedule and should be on the move shortly.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
signal problems on CSX slowing pass rail
Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, March 13, 2012 11:49 AM

CSX had a track inspection vehice on the eastbound Brunswick line yesterday ( unknow if FRA or private ) and the number of slow orders placed is causing delays today of up to 30 minutes.  Makes one wonder if maybe these track defects could have caused some of these intermitttent signal delays past few months  ??  

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, March 12, 2012 6:27 PM

TODAY MONDAY ANOTHER SIGNAL PROBLEM AT Bowie on CSX.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
signal problems on CSX slowing pass rail
Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, March 9, 2012 11:21 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

If my experiences with Metra are any indicator, "signal problems" or "signal failure" is often used as a catchall explanation for delays.  A recent example:  My morning ride on the Southwest Service was delayed a half hour on one day last week due to freight interference, probably due to a freight on the IHB at Chicago Ridge.  A later canned on-board announcement stated that our train was about a half hour late due to signal problems.

Actually MARC is very careful to list actual cause. almost 75% of all delays are listed as due to freight train interferrence.

That being said a review from Feb 1 - Mar 9 haad over 15 signal problems mostly on Brunswick line but a few on Camden line.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
signal problems on CSX slowing pass rail
Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, March 6, 2012 8:19 AM
Get back on line and another problem shows?? Fredericksburg Train 312 is currently operating 20 minutes behind schedule as the result of CSX switch and signal problems.
  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, January 26, 2012 10:07 AM

If my experiences with Metra are any indicator, "signal problems" or "signal failure" is often used as a catchall explanation for delays.  A recent example:  My morning ride on the Southwest Service was delayed a half hour on one day last week due to freight interference, probably due to a freight on the IHB at Chicago Ridge.  A later canned on-board announcement stated that our train was about a half hour late due to signal problems.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    September 2008
  • 1,112 posts
Posted by aegrotatio on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 11:28 PM

Naturally we all assume that "signal failure" means that the signals do "fail safe."  I hope my comments don't indicate otherwise, because I don't intend that in any way.

 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:50 PM
Another signal problem on Camden line.
Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:26 PM
From:
Add sender to Contacts
Southbound Camden Train #855 (5:15 pm departure from Baltimore) is running 9 minutes late approaching Washington due to signal issues.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
signal problems on CSX slowiing pass rail
Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 4:25 PM
Tuesday, January 17, 2012 5:03 PM
From:
Add sender to Contacts
To:
"Maryland MTA Alerts Subscriber"
Train 891 (3:50pm departure to Frederick) has departed Germantown operating 10-12 minutes late due signal problems
UPDATE:
From:
Expect all Brunswick Line trains to be delayed 8-10 minutes between Germantown and Point of Rocks
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:05 PM
Another one
Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:57 AM
From:
Camden Line Train 843 (5:36 am departure Baltimore) is approaching Dorsey 8-10 minutes late due
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:52 PM

A few years ago - maybe 5 or 10 ? - there was a definite "false proceed" on CSX a little south of the AutoTrain terminal at Lorton.  As I recall the situation, the very alert crew of a NB train on one track saw a green on an adjoining track for an apporoaching AutoTrain that was still behind them - and then saw and realized there was another train still within the block protected by that bogus green signal !  They radioed the AutoTrain to stop ASAP, and disaster was averted.  Subsequent investigation and testing revealed defective insulation on the signal wires had failed prematurely, causing the "false proceed". 

EDIT: Link to a thread here in 2008 about this incident:

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/123445/1418324.aspx   

So I wonder (speculate) if these numerous signal problems in the same geographic area are perhaps caused by the same or a related cause ?

There's an on-line compilation of these kinds of things someplace . . . [EDIT] see the "Ironwood" link in the thread that I referenced above, and this link for a more general compilation:

 http://www.ironwoodtech.com/researchcenter/falseproceeds/falseproceeds.htm

- Paul North.   

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Signal failures in WASH area on CSX
Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:32 PM

Now we hear that Amtrak had a failure south of CHI Union Station for 42 minutes that delayed METRA 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, January 9, 2012 7:46 PM

jUST SO NO ONE THINKS i AM PICKING ON csx cAPITOL CORRIDOR HAD ONE LAST WED.

Train 532 is delayed 35 minutes between Hayward & Oakland due to a Signal Problem.

aND AN aMTRAK Penn line problem Friday

Penn Line Train 429 (11:35 am departure Baltimore) is operating 10-15 minutes late due to signal problems in Baltimore.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Signal failures in WASH area on CSX
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, January 9, 2012 7:42 PM

another one last WED  on old CSX --  NOW MBTA

Framnghm/Worc P500 04:45 AM IB experiencing 10-15 min delays due to signal problem 1/4/2012 6:21 AM

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Signal failures in WASH area on CSX
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, January 2, 2012 9:15 AM

efftenxrfe

A CSX PR person ardently wants to quell the descriptive "signal failure."

Signal failure, terrifyingly,  means an erroneous permission to move when danger or catastrophe is beyond the signal.

Any signal that slows, delays or stops some move 'cause of component malfunction, track circuit problem, protective device function screw-up, power failure, or burnt-out light bulb or...or....has not displayed a "false proceed" indication.

It has succeeded in properly authorizing train movement.

The Yellow (approach the next signal prepared to stop before any part .....) that  I  acted upon and found a train on my side of the next signal.....yes, I saw it and stopped without big-holing my train.....but, that was a signal failure.

Train delays described here,  I hope, are not my kind of signal failures but are those that can be diminished by adequate budgeting, allocations, training, supervision and....and..

 

I will give you that the RR definition of a signal failure has probably not occurred whereas a false green would be a signal failure.  However CSX is having a major problem here for whatever reason as the signal systems fail safe very often.   A check of the Cascades route - maybe 1 a month, Capitol corridor  -  1 a month, Surfliners have seen none reported. The Worcester line that CSX has transferred to the MBTA (but CSX is still maintaining the last time I heard ) has also been experiencing a somewhat high # of signal problems

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 339 posts
Posted by efftenxrfe on Friday, December 30, 2011 7:46 PM

A CSX PR person ardently wants to quell the descriptive "signal failure."

Signal failure, terrifyingly,  means an erroneous permission to move when danger or catastrophe is beyond the signal.

Any signal that slows, delays or stops some move 'cause of component malfunction, track circuit problem, protective device function screw-up, power failure, or burnt-out light bulb or...or....has not displayed a "false proceed" indication.

It has succeeded in properly authorizing train movement.

The Yellow (approach the next signal prepared to stop before any part .....) that  I  acted upon and found a train on my side of the next signal.....yes, I saw it and stopped without big-holing my train.....but, that was a signal failure.

Train delays described here,  I hope, are not my kind of signal failures but are those that can be diminished by adequate budgeting, allocations, training, supervision and....and..

 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Signal failures in WASH area on CSX
Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, December 30, 2011 1:14 AM

And another Thursday afteernoon:

Train 855 (5:15pm departure from Camden Yards) has been terminated at Savage due to freight train congestion and signal problems. Passengers will transfer to Train 857, which is currently approaching Dorsey

+ 1-----

Train 846 (4:13p dpt Union Station) is operating 25-30 mins late due signal problems near Greenbelt

  • Member since
    September 2008
  • 1,112 posts
Posted by aegrotatio on Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:37 PM

So, is CSX ready for PTC?  Or will PTC inadvertently make CSX better by replacing bad equipment they evidently refuse to maintain in a state of good repair?

 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Signal failures in WASH area on CSX
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, December 28, 2011 7:01 PM

and another failure wedensday afternoon on the Fredricksburg line :

Fredericksburg Line Advisory
Update 1 effective:456p
***************************************
#303 (Departs Union Station at 3:35p) operating approximately 25 minutes late and on the move at Rippon. No additional delays anticipated, but 305 approaching location where delays may occur.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fredericksburg Line Advisory
effective: 440p
***************************************
#303 (Departs Union Station at 3:35p) is stopped due to switch/signal problems north of Rippon approximately 15 minutes late. Train expected to depart shortly. Signal Maintainers enroute, but this may affect 305.


Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy