I hear of plans calling for more light-rail transit for parts of the country and it got me thinking: why is it so much better considering it's costs vs. the costs of a modernized streetcar system? I hear that streetcar systems can cost millions of dollars less than dedicated light rail. What are the disadvantages of both of these modes? Would it be wise to advise planning agencies to also consider street cars when they are currently considering light rail?
What are some of the success stories of modernized streetcars?
I believe light rail and streetcars, by today's standards, are the same thing. From a philosopohical point of view, I believe light rail tends toward a more privatized right of way, alongside streets or inside center medians, or totally seperated from streets. In New Jersey, light rail lines Bergen-Hudson, Newark City, and the RiverLine, incorporate all the above even using former heavy rail rights of way and structures! And, all three are success stories!!
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Here in Charlotte we currently have Trolleys:
and Light Rail:
The trolleys have been temporarily taken out of service and are going to run in the street once the streets are rebuilt with tracks. The light rail runs in NS right of way, some current and some abandoned.
In my opinion, street running sacrifices most of the advantages of rail other than capacity. If you are going to run in the street mixed with auto traffic stopping for traffic signals you might as well just use buses. Dedicated ROW means the vehicle always runs exactly on time regardless of traffic, weather, car accidents, etc. If circumstances require increased capacity you just add additional cars. No staffing changes are required. They don't slow down during rush hour, etc.
There is no cost savings putting rails in the street and running catanery over the streets instead of dedicated ROW. You do, however, save the cost of acquiring the ROW.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
On a passenger-mile basis, operating a one-man streetcar still saves money over running a bus. Very, very, very rare is the saving great enough to equal the interest on the capitol costs.
Life of a good is 15 years, of an LRV or streetcar 30 years. Far less maintencanc expense. Capacity of a one-man streetcar can be 305 GREATER than an articulated bus.
As mentioned above, private right-of-way is more prevalent on light rail than on street railways, which provides a speed advantage. Also, light rail has more MU operations, with two or three articulated cars in a train, than the single car operation of street railways.
I rode the Sounder light rail from the SEATAC airport to Seattle last summer. It's a bit of a hybrid. It has it's own, new ROW leaving the airport, does some street running mid-route, then more private ROW and finishes up in a shared-with-buses commuter tunnel.
There were only four things wrong with it.
1. no place to put your luggage - strange for an airport line.
2. trolleys couldn't actuate the traffic lights on the street running part - could have shaved about 5 minute off the running time if they did.
3. Sounder is completely separate from King County transit.
4. It was a long hike around the perimeter of the parking deck to get to the Sounder station at the airport.
But, it was a good ride at a good price. The fare machines were easy enough to use and the frequency of operation was decent.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd 2. trolleys couldn't actuate the traffic lights on the street running part - could have shaved about 5 minute off the running time if they did.
Don: This is one of two related items that really reeks IMHO with light rail and streetcars systems that are in service or being built.
1. If a city is to get maximum use of their rail systems the cars need to priority trip the traffic lights.
2. Along with #1 the need to have boarding areas just past intersections allows for minimum transit times.
3. I have not found too many systems that have both these features probably because there are political impediments?
4. Here is a list of some citys and would like for some readers to fill in the information.
Boston
Newark
Philidelphia
Baltimore no triping some stops just past intersections
Pittsburgh
New Orleans
Salt Lake City
Seattle no tripping
Portland
San Francisco
Los Angeles
San Diego
Dallas
Houston
Austin
Tampa
Memphis
Any other citys?
Atanta has started a (cough, cough) BRT route with signal tripping and bus run around lanes at intersections. It means the bus gets to go to the front of the line a the traffic light. Just a few months old. Don't know how it's doing.
Also: Jersey City-Bayonne, NJ HBLRT
I believe there is no difference. The RTD in Denver runs light rail in the streets and on their own main, usually following railroads right of way and highways. Streetcars, such as the ones in New Orleans, also runs in the street. The difference would be if you were comparing Interurban, like the old Chicago South Shore and South bend and light rail. Light rails usually don't couple more than two cars together, but with interurbans, they can couple many cars together, as long as every other car is attached to the wire.
viewphoto.php?id=302717&nseq=10
blue streak 1 oltmannd: 2. trolleys couldn't actuate the traffic lights on the street running part - could have shaved about 5 minute off the running time if they did. Don: This is one of two related items that really reeks IMHO with light rail and streetcars systems that are in service or being built. 1. If a city is to get maximum use of their rail systems the cars need to priority trip the traffic lights. 2. Along with #1 the need to have boarding areas just past intersections allows for minimum transit times. 3. I have not found too many systems that have both these features probably because there are political impediments? 4. Here is a list of some citys and would like for some readers to fill in the information. Boston Newark Philidelphia Baltimore no triping some stops just past intersections Pittsburgh New Orleans Salt Lake City Seattle no tripping Portland San Francisco Los Angeles San Diego Dallas Houston Austin Tampa Memphis Any other citys?
oltmannd: 2. trolleys couldn't actuate the traffic lights on the street running part - could have shaved about 5 minute off the running time if they did.
You forgot Denver and the RTD. they have a multitude of light rail lines in that city.
Mr. Railman Streetcars, such as the ones in New Orleans, also runs in the street. The difference would be if you were comparing Interurban, like the old Chicago South Shore and South bend and light rail. Light rails usually don't couple more than two cars together, but with interurbans, they can couple many cars together, as long as every other car is attached to the wire.
Streetcars, such as the ones in New Orleans, also runs in the street. The difference would be if you were comparing Interurban, like the old Chicago South Shore and South bend and light rail. Light rails usually don't couple more than two cars together, but with interurbans, they can couple many cars together, as long as every other car is attached to the wire.
South Shore IS NOT an interurban, hasn't been since somewhere between 1955, when the R-2's began replacing the steeplecabs, and 1980, when the Insull cars were replaced.
Anyway, I think that the comparison you were trying to make was between light rail and rapid transit.
blue streak 1 oltmannd: 2. trolleys couldn't actuate the traffic lights on the street running part - could have shaved about 5 minute off the running time if they did. Ok added Denver --- Anyone have any info for any of the below city's type operation?? Don: This is one of two related items that really reeks IMHO with light rail and streetcars systems that are in service or being built. 1. If a city is to get maximum use of their rail systems the cars need to priority trip the traffic lights. 2. Along with #1 the need to have boarding areas just past intersections allows for minimum transit times. 3. I have not found too many systems that have both these features probably because there are political impediments? 4. Here is a list of some citys and would like for some readers to fill in the information. Boston Newark Philidelphia Baltimore no triping some stops just past intersections Pittsburgh New Orleans Denver Salt Lake City Seattle no tripping Portland San Francisco Los Angeles San Diego Dallas Houston Austin Tampa Memphis Any other citys?
oltmannd: 2. trolleys couldn't actuate the traffic lights on the street running part - could have shaved about 5 minute off the running time if they did. Ok added Denver --- Anyone have any info for any of the below city's type operation??
Ok added Denver --- Anyone have any info for any of the below city's type operation??
Denver
CSSHEGEWISCH Mr. Railman: Streetcars, such as the ones in New Orleans, also runs in the street. The difference would be if you were comparing Interurban, like the old Chicago South Shore and South bend and light rail. Light rails usually don't couple more than two cars together, but with interurbans, they can couple many cars together, as long as every other car is attached to the wire. South Shore IS NOT an interurban, hasn't been since somewhere between 1955, when the R-2's began replacing the steeplecabs, and 1980, when the Insull cars were replaced. Anyway, I think that the comparison you were trying to make was between light rail and rapid transit.
Mr. Railman: Streetcars, such as the ones in New Orleans, also runs in the street. The difference would be if you were comparing Interurban, like the old Chicago South Shore and South bend and light rail. Light rails usually don't couple more than two cars together, but with interurbans, they can couple many cars together, as long as every other car is attached to the wire.
Little Rock, Arkansas has a short street car system that is pretty neat. I don't know whether one can define it as a success (depends on the criteria), but LR has been expanding it. Eventually, as I was told when I rode it, the operator plans to extend it to the LR Airport.
The cars are heritage in appearance but otherwise very modern. I believe they were built in Iowa or thereabouts in the early 2000s. They are air conditioned, and they appeared to be very smooth.
I rode the system in 2007 or 2008. At the time it was approximately 2.5 miles in length. I understand that it has been expanded to the President Clinton Library, which adds another mile or so to the system.
The primary purpose of my trip to LR was to visit the Clinton Library. It is a very nice library and worth a visit irrespective of one's political views or views of President Clinton.
Streetcars: surface in street running, bus like stops at least once almost every block or on demand of passengers at stops or asking to get off at stop.
LRV: can do streetcar running as described above but also along private rights of way with more restrictive stops...instead of every street block, could be miles between towns or other designated stops.
Subway/radpid transit: heavy rail operated usually with a short time frequency, more so at peak times than off peak, stops every half to one mile depending upon density of the city.
Commuter rail: heavy rail, peak and off peak timing, stops usually from town to town or district of town to district of town but basically with longer than subway or LRV or streetcar distances and less frequency.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.