Hi all,
I mostly post on the Model Railroader forums, but I figured this would be the perfect place to ask this. My fiancee and I are planning a honeymoon in the United States, in Los Angeles, Chicago and New York. One of my main concerns at the moment is getting around - we're not planning to hire a car in any of these locations, given the paperwork involved in getting an international licence and that you lot drive on the wrong side of the road . We're planning to rely mostly on public transport and feet to get around, and I was wondering if this was a realistic option?
Thanks in advance,
tbdanny
The Location: Forests of the Pacific Northwest, OregonThe Year: 1948The Scale: On30The Blog: http://bvlcorr.tumblr.com
Congratulations in advance, and the best of luck to both of you. All three cities have comprehensive transit and commuter systems. Information, schedules, etc. can be found by googleing or binging or however you search on line. I am very conversant in the NYC area as I do plan and escort railfan trips in Metropolitan NY and Philadelphia. Even so, websites for www.mta.com will show you NYC's subway system as well as the Long Island and Metro North Railroads with maps and schedules. www.njt.com will help in New Jersey. www.Amtrak.com of course for Amtrak. I am sure Chicago and L.A. have similar accesses.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
You made the right choice. A car is not needed in any of the three cities. Do plan on using transit mostly outside rush hours. Transit conditions during rush hours in Chicago and New York are just like the London Underground. Still, better than siting still in traffic jams.
A man and his wife were walking down the street in Manhattan when suddenly the man threw himself down spread eagle in the road by the curb. He yelled: "Martha; I found a parking space. Quick, go buy a car."
Many people who live in NYC don't even own cars. They rent on the rare occasions when one is needed. Have you ever seen street pictures of Manhattan? Notice that 90% of the cars are yellow (Taxis)?
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Hi and Congratulations!
Urban transit (bus and heavy rail) operator in Chicago is the CTA; their website is www.transitchicago.com
Gives fares, schedules, maps and other useful info. A good ride to see the CTA and experience the character of the system is the Brown Line.
Commuter rail in the Chicago/NE Illinois region is operated by Metra. Their website is www.metrarail.com
Similarly, provides the info you need to navigate the system. Metra Electric provides good access to the Museum of Science & Industry (a few blocks east of the 55th-56th-57th station). BNSF line to Aurora offers a good mix of passenger and freight.
Hope this helps - travel safe! Art
There is one more website that is useful for Chicago, the RTA (overall agency for transit and rail and suburban buses):
http://goroo.com/goroo/showHome.htm
Also, taxis are not too expensive and are especially good in the evening.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Public transportation is doable in all three cities. New York is the easiest. Underneath your feet is the greatest public transit in the world. You can get anywhere in the city with minimal difficulty and expense. Keep in mind that schedules might be significantly reduced late night and on weekends. Here is an excellent website that I use even though I am familiar with he system. You just enter where you are and where you want to go. It will provide the subways and/or buses to get you there. You can even specify how much walking you are willing to do.
http://www.hopstop.com/
Chicago is pretty easy also. You will likely rely more on buses than trains.
In either New York or Chicago, taxis are plentiful and in many cases might provide the most convenient choice.
Los Angeles is the most challenging. Public transit is not as well developed as the others. The other issue in L.A. is that the distances are much greater. It is the destination where I would most consider renting a car. I have not heard of anyone needing an international driver's license in many years. Check with the big car rental companies. Don't worry. If you insist on driving on the wrong side of the street, you will just be in step with about half of the people that live here.
Mark
Congrats and Happy Honeymoon! If you're visiting New York City consider actually staying in New Jersey. The hotels in Jersey City, Hoboken, and the towns on the Jersey side are a bit less money and just as comfortable - really. All North Jersey communities are connected to NYC by New Jersey Transit rail and bus lines, and there are cross-river ferries from Weehawken, Hoboken, and Jersey City (these three cities also connect to each other by light rail). Then there's the PATH - Port Authority Trans Hudson - or Tube trains. These run from Newark through Jersey City and Hoboken into New York City via under river tubes to mid-town (Herald Square) and downtown (World Trade Center). Suggestion: stay at the Hilton directly across the street from Newark Penn Station. If you fly into Newark-Liberty International Airport you can take the monorail from the terminal to the airport Amtrak/NJ Transit rail station, then a train directly into Newark Penn Station. To go into New York just board a PATH at Newark Penn Station. Newark also has a light rail system, the City Subway.
It is just on a year since my wife and I used just that method to explore the three cities you mention.as well as SanFrancisco and Washington DC.The only taxi we used was from JFK to our hotel- we did land just after midnight, and he soured our opinion of taxis in USA. NY has its subway which got us into the city and to Amtraks Penn station. Hardest thing to get used to for this Aussie couple was the number of similarly named stations owned by different operators and only in the same general neighbourhood. It took us three hits to find the right Penn station. We found Chicagos el before we found our hotel, it was raining and we were on foot, the road we had to follow was a hole in the ground but we did see a lot of city before we knew where we were. LA busses were pretty good but riding in them it still spooked me to have the driver on the wrong side of the bus.
The straight answer, yes, it is a very frealistic option, and we have obviously got a few more years behind us than you.
Crazy Aussie
As an ex-New Yorker born in 1932 and left in 1996 (with spots in-between in the Army, Massachusetts, Illinois), I would second the recommendation for a New Jersey hotel. Great idea.
The PATH train to Manhattan from Newark's Penn Station is fast, convenient, and inexpensive.
If the weather is not bitter the Robert Treat hotel is about 4 blocks from Newark Penn Station. The roooms are small and cheaper but what the heck?
I agree with most everyone. NY and Chicago are very doable without a car. In fact a car is a liability. LA, not so much. The places most people want to go visit around LA and are scattered around a pretty wide area and they are not well connected by rail transit. It's geared mostly toward commuters, not tourists. You might be able to figure out how to get about on the RTA buses and use some taxis.
The better California city to visit is San Francisco. Lots to do there and it's very easy to get around by transit. In fact, some of the transit is geared directly toward tourists. You can even take a one day train/bus excursion to Yosemite National Park.
The only other US cities I can think of that have tourist friendly rail transit are Boston, Philadelphia, Washington DC, and, to some extent, Seattle, Portland Oregon and Baltimore.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I lived in New York City for eight years. I did not have a car, but I was able to get around nicely on public transport. I have also used public transport in Chicago and LA. All three cities have good public transport. I have also used public transport in Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Charlotte, Dallas, Fort Worth, and Houston. In fact, I used public transort in Dallas for more than 33 years to get to and from work. So I am familiar with how public transport in the U.S. works.
Whilst I lived in Melbourne, Victoria, I rode public transit every day. Again, I did not have a car because I did not need one, although I did have a motorbike to get around on the weekends. I also used the public transit systems in Adelaide, Sydney, and Brisbane.
There is one cautionary note to observe when using public transit in the U.S. , especially at night. Be careful! Although the big city transit systems have a small army of transit police, they cannot be everywhere. Also, there are neighborhoods in the U.S. that one simply should not venture into. In New York, for example, be careful where you go in northern Manhattan as well as the Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens.
I go back to New York at least once a year. Having lived in Bay Ridge for more than six years, I like to visit some of my old haunts. I have no qualms about taking the train from Manhattan to Bay Ridge. But at night I always sit in the same car as the motorman or conductor. Just in case. The train passes through (under) some pretty bad neighborhoods to get to Bay Ridge. And the bad guys can get on and off them with ease.
As was mentioned, LA is going to be the worst of the 3. Not because their transit is under developed, it's that the city is so spread out that it is very very hard for Rail transit to get you everywhere, but all is not lost.
First determine where you want to stay in the city. There are some locations that will make this easier than others. For instance, if you stay in South Orange County, Say San Clemente or San Jaun Capistrano, the Metrolink/Amtrak Pacific Surfliner will be right there. This will get you to Disneyland and Union Station and San Diego quite easily. The transit network can then get you to some other tourist sites, but be prepared to ride buses to get around.
If you're a railfan, how can you go to LA and not want to at least hire a car to visit Tehachapi pass? - I did on our honeymoon
If you don't want to tackle driving in LA (I can understand that) take the bus to Bakersfield and hire a car there - once you've got to Tehachapi you won't want to leave....
Tony
Owlsroost: he will be on his honeymoon and I think that is the position from which he asked the question. Flying in from Austrailia he will be without transportation; being a railfan he understands public transportation. But knowing how far behind the rest of the world our country is when it comes to public transportation and the bad rap a lot of US public transportation and inner city life gets, he has shown genuine concern and thus his quetion. Only he really knows if he will be on his honeymoon or an overseas railfan adventure! Either way, we should welcome him and his bride and offer the best help we can in seeing that they get around to see what they want to see the best way possible and wish the couple the best of luck!
My comments were intended to be light-hearted (hence the smiley) and written from the perspective of a foreign visitor to the US (I live in the UK).
I've explored Boston, Chicago, New York, Washington DC, San Francisco, LA, Portland (OR) and Miami by bus, subway, light rail, heavy rail and on foot over the years. My first experience of driving a car in the US was in LA - and I wouldn't wish driving in six lanes of nose-to-tail freeway traffic in the pouring rain on anyone.....but if you do want to visit places like Tehachapi pass I think a car is the only easy way to do it.
I actually think that public transport in the big cities of the US is much better than some Americans think it is - LA is harder to get around (but possible) mostly because it's such a huge urban sprawl that's very car-oriented.
I'd also recommend trying to find a bit of 'small town' America if you have the time - it's a different (and usually much nicer) experience to contrast with the big-city hustle and bustle.
Try Roanoke, Virginia, not only the rail-related musaeums, but great people friendly to visitors.
Hi all,Thank-you to everyone who provided advice and links. It is going to come in very useful, and I will be referring to this thread a few times as I plan our honeymoon. My future wife and I both really appreciate this.The only 'railfanning' I'll be able to do this time around will be the Southwest Chief between Los Angeles and Chicago. We are considering another trip to the US in a few years, though, and will probably do a great deal more railfanning then - especially the former D&RGW narrow gauge.Thanks again, everyone. We're looking forward to coming over there.Cheers,Danny.
CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR MARRIAGE!!!!
For Chicago, Metra has 12 train routes going in and out of the city. not all routes run on weekends (the North central District and Heritage Corridir only run on weekdays) There is the CTA in the city and bordering suburbs, and it goes to both Midway and O-Hare airports. CTA bussesare around in the city as well. all CTA is under $5, but Metra ticket price depends on the length of the trip. Bikes are allowed on Metra and CTA, but only on off peak trains for Metra (9:00AM-4:00PM and past 8PM)
Los Angeles local here. Many will tell you that "You can't get anywhere without a car" but the reality is that with a car, you'll get stuck in traffic and have an even worse experience. Also, there are some places in NY or Chicago you can't get to on a train either, so it's somewhat of an unfair comparison.
True a lot of Los Angeles is sprawled and car-centric, but does a tourist really need to visit dull suburban places like, say Rancho Cucamonga or Corona? I think not.
We have a rail transit system that is 20 years old now and some 79-miles in length. For its young age and its size, you can go quite a few places directly by rail:
Downtown Los AngelesHollywood Blvd (Mann Chinese Theatre/Walk of Fame)Universal StudiosPasadena
There is an express bus that takes you between the airport (LAX) directly to Union Station for just a few dollars.
There's also a commuter rail system (Metrolink) that takes people even farther from the outlying suburbs.
Basically, if you stay in the Downtown, Hollywood, North Hollywood or Pasadena areas, you'll get around much easier. A lot of hotel guides say the hotel is in "Los Angeles" or "Hollywood" for marketing purposes but in reality they will be some 20-30 miles away, and people get ripped off because of that.
If you want more info, contact me via my user profile, I'd be glad to help you out.
Phoebe Vet Many people who live in NYC don't even own cars. They rent on the rare occasions when one is needed. Have you ever seen street pictures of Manhattan? Notice that 90% of the cars are yellow (Taxis)?
The biggest misconception is that Manhattan is NYC...Though it's the main part of NYC, it's only one of five boroughs. Some people in Bronx or Brooklyn own cars. Most people in Queens own cars. EVERYONE in Staten Island owns a car. The Staten Island Ferry, also carries automobiles, after all.
And don't forget the NYC metropolitan area as a whole. People who work in NYC would probably live in Jersey, Long Island or Connecticut. A large majority of those people own cars and get around their neighborhoods with cars.
... and another big misconception is that NYC is representative of New York State, so what's your point.
The original poster is traveling as a tourist. I doubt he will be spending much time in the Bronx.
My point is that NYC has such a dense population and such a well developed public transit system that public transit is more convenient than trying to drive and then trying to find a place to park.
Now if he wants to go upstate and visit the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, or the wineries in the Finger Lakes, he will need a car.
Metro Red Line Phoebe Vet: Many people who live in NYC don't even own cars. They rent on the rare occasions when one is needed. Have you ever seen street pictures of Manhattan? Notice that 90% of the cars are yellow (Taxis)? The Staten Island Ferry, also carries automobiles, after all.
Phoebe Vet: Many people who live in NYC don't even own cars. They rent on the rare occasions when one is needed. Have you ever seen street pictures of Manhattan? Notice that 90% of the cars are yellow (Taxis)?
The Staten Island Ferry, also carries automobiles, after all.
Not any more, apparently. At least it didn't this past November.
Phoebe Vet ... and another big misconception is that NYC is representative of New York State, so what's your point. The original poster is traveling as a tourist. I doubt he will be spending much time in the Bronx. My point is that NYC has such a dense population and such a well developed public transit system that public transit is more convenient than trying to drive and then trying to find a place to park. Now if he wants to go upstate and visit the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, or the wineries in the Finger Lakes, he will need a car.
...and a raincoat, but not much sunscreen.
Phoebe Vet ... and another big misconception is that NYC is representative of New York State, so what's your point. The original poster is traveling as a tourist. I doubt he will be spending much time in the Bronx. My point is that NYC has such a dense population and such a well developed public transit system that public transit is more convenient than trying to drive and then trying to find a place to park.
Of course, and there's a lot of places in the sprawled-out, non-dense suburban areas of Los Angeles that tourists have no interest in seeing as well.
One thing that I really enjoyed while visiting New York was taking the subway to Grand Central on a quiet Sunday afternoon, and then making a trip on Metra up the Hudson to Poughkeepsie and back on the old New York Central water level route. A lot of interesting things, like taking the train thru SingSing prison, seeing West Point military academy, and great scenery. It's about 70 miles one way so takes a couple of hours, and at the time I took it (mid-nineties) it only cost about $16.
wjstix One thing that I really enjoyed while visiting New York was taking the subway to Grand Central on a quiet Sunday afternoon, and then making a trip on Metra up the Hudson to Poughkeepsie and back on the old New York Central water level route. A lot of interesting things, like taking the train thru SingSing prison, seeing West Point military academy, and great scenery. It's about 70 miles one way so takes a couple of hours, and at the time I took it (mid-nineties) it only cost about $16.
Probably one of the most scenic rides in the NYC metropolitan area...on MNRR, Metro North Railroad! Any of the Conneticuit branches are scenic, too, and to Wassaic, NY is both scenic and historic. Unique and quick is Amtrak out of NYP to Pk'sie and MNRR to GCT, but more expensive. Out of NYP any trip on the LIRR can be fascinating for a railfan or anyone else...to Oyster Bay, Greenport, Montauk, Port Jefferson, or the south shore beaches (but be careful). Same for NJT to Port Jervis, or down to the Shore, out to Hackettstown or HIgh Bridge, or down to Trenton (and even on to Philadelphia on SEPTA or to Camden on the River Line's light rail diesel cars.
When I read the first part of wjstix's post:
"One thing that I really enjoyed while visiting New York was taking the subway ...."
I thought he was going to echo my sentiment. I just enjoyed riding the subways. ( I'm easily amused.) I was really impressed when I discovered the parallel local/express lines. Talk about a marvel of engineering and coordination!
One more thing: contrary to popular belief, I found New Yorkers to be open and helpful. When I was confused in some of the larger stations and asked for directions, they were usually ready to help. Sometimes they'd instinctively turn away at first, probably thinking I was a panhandler or hustler, but when I asked for help, frequently they would not only give directions but walk with me to show me where to catch the train I wanted.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
If you are a railfan you can combine that hobby with the trip on the Southwest Chief. The Chief's first stop after leaving LA Union Station is Fullerton, about 40 miles east of LA in North Orange County. In fact a lot of Chief passengers coming from San Diego and other points south take a Pacific Surfliner north to Fullerton and change to the eastbound Chief. I think there is even a transfer of checked luggage. We see a lot of Amish people who are coming back from Mexico after medical treatment. (Amish don't believe in insurance).
If you schedule your departure on the Chief for Friday, the train will get to Fullerton about 6:45 PM (1845). At that time on a Friday evening the station is full of railfans. You could easily take an earlier train to Fullerton and catch the Chief after a light supper at the station cafe. If you are staying near Disneyland, Fullerton is an easy place to board the Chief. Both are on Harbor Blvd, a major N-S street. Just remember, the Chief almost always boards from Track 1, the one nearest the station. This is left side running, a departure from usual American railroad practice.
One confusing fact: for the Chief: Fullerton is an east/west station. For the Pacific Surfliners from LA to San Diego, it's a north/south station. Just east of the station is Fullerton Junction where the line to San Diego turns right. The tracks in the station are oriented exactly east and west which causes some confusion. Just ask someone if you get turned around.. There is a pedestrian bridge and the elevators are usually working.
Fullerton is a prime train watching spot. On a Friday we get 56 passengers trains stopping there. Plus it is on the BNSF's Transcon Rouite from LA/Long Beach harbors to Chicago. That can mean over 75 freight trains a day and business is picking up.
Jack
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