Dumb question: I notice that Metra has been rebuilding its own F40PH-2 fleet, including the first one, #100. It was my understanding that the "Winnebagos" started in the high 180's and I've seen them numbered up to #214, which I regularly see in service past Tower A-2. Lately I've seen conventional nosed units #215 and #216. Were they rebuilds renumbered from another series or what? Were they built before or after the Winnebagos? And does anyone have info on whether the BNSF's engines have been rebuilt? We had the #180 for awhile but sent it back to Metra. We (Union Pacific) currently operate the non-rebuilt F40's #127-178 (I haven't seen the 179 in awhile). Let's just say they're beginning to show their age. I see the MP-36 loks on the Milwaukee lines. I wonder if we'll end up with some of those when the bridge project on the North Line (Kenosha Sub) is finished? Whatever, I don't follow this stuff avidly in my spare time, but once in awhile you see something that begs the question. Thanks in advance.
Metra 215 and 216 are secondhand from Amtrak, 215 is ex-AMTK 258 and 216 is ex-AMTK 375.
Okay, that makes sense. I guess the same firm rebuilding the others did those two, also. Thanks for the info.
The first Winnebago was 185. BNSF has, I think, 185-202 (they didn't used to have 201, but now they do), maybe a couple others, and a few earlier units scattered throughout the number series. Also a very few MP36s.
It was my understanding that the MP36s aren't used on UP lines because of a bridge restriction in Chicago. I'm thinking it's the approach to North Western Station in the vicinity of Clinton St. or Lake St. (It will always be North Western Station to me, no matter what stupid name they give it.) Enjoy the last two F40Cs while they're still running on the MILW lines, subbing for F40PHs being rebuilt.
David
The bridge restrictions for the MP36's are on the C&NW North Line. Since all equipment on C&NW works out the same pool, it's a lot simpler to just keep them out of the pool instead of trying to remember which consist will be on which line.
The 2 units were among 5 purchased for Nashville's Music City Star. For a time the 2 units may have been used on the Tennessee Central Ry Museum train. (The TCMry runs east on NERy or ex-TCry track about 1-2 times a month.
The MCS has a 3rd unit rebuilt with stimulus funds similar to the other 2. A 4th unit #381 appears in an Amtrak California scheme. They may have had some runs in CA before the F59's got there. AFAIK they may be the last 5 usable F40 units from Beech Grove.
The public account is that the bridge restrictions are on the UP North. For what it's worth, the bridges on the Harvard Sub Northwest Line carrying North Line trains at North Avenue and at Division Street are of similar age and design as north of Clybourn. Secondly, the Kenosha Sub North Line bridges at Cortland St and Armitage Ave at the Clybourn station are not included. Finally, the Operation Lifesaver Train round trip between Chicago and Kenosha last Tuesday had four C44s weighing around 430,000 lbs each pulling the train and seemingly limited to about 40 mph in the old bridge zone south of Balmoral Av. The implication would be that, since trains are limited nominally to around 40 MPH because of the curve midway between the Chicago terminal and Clybourn at Division, the heavier MP36s would be tollerable.
(60 mph would be allowable with a little over 3" cant for the majority of 2-deg 30-min curves between Chicago and Clybourn; and replacing the Division St bridge would allow easing that curve and saving a minute. As a rider, it would be nice to keep up with traffic on the adjacent Kennedy Expy!)
Don't expect to see MP36s on the North Line soon; the bridge project will take 8 years! This is why Metra is rebuilding the F40s in the interim.
I personally think the MP36 is an overweight, fuel-consuming beast. Traction control on a lighter locomotive would make up the difference in low-speed adhesion. Beside, Metra tests back in the 1970s showed that there was little difference between 4-axle and 6-axle performance from 0-60.
Last time I looked, the MP36 had only 4 axles. Also, the market for suburban locomotives is a niche that MPI virtually has to itself so there aren't any real alternatives to the MP36/MP40, especially since it seems that neither EMD nor GE are interested in that market.
Im not so sure that the 35 mph speed limit between NW Jct and Clybourn on the Harvard Sub is so much about curvature but rather the short distance between signal blocks. On our West Line, for example, track three (the eastbound main) between Kedzie and Western Avenue Tower A-2 is 35mph, while westbound on track four the speed limit is 50mph. I was told a long time back by one of the MOPS that the reason for the difference is the short blocks going east. If one were to pass an approach signal for Western at a higher speed, they would never get stopped (or would have to dump the air) in order to get stopped for a red one at Tower A-2. Also between Noble St and NW Jct on track three and four the speed limit is 35mph in both directions until west of Noble St.Another example is the trackage up one the "elevation" between Oak Park and River Forest (Vale Interlocking). If the signal at Vale was red, we used to get an approach at the signal at 8.1, then another approach at 8.8. Naturally we would get train control at the first approach signal. The speed limit on the elevation was 45mph for freight at the time up there. Later after the UP took over they changed the aspect at 8.1 to an "advance approach" (flashing yellow), and proceeded to drop the speed limit for freights down to 35mph between there and Vale westbound. By dropping the speed limit down to 35, we could go by the advance approach without getting train control and could easily be down to the required speed by the time we hit the approach at 8.8 The ATC in most circumstances doesnt recognize a flashing yellow as something favorable (ATC has only two indications in the cab, Clear and Restricting). This is also the reason that between Peck and Elburn on the West Line, the speed limit on tracks one and two are 70 for both, while on main track three, the speed limit is 60/40. If you go by and advance approach on one or two and the next signal is approach, you WILL get train control. On track three, you can go by an advance approach and will not get train control until you get to the approach signal (which helps us move the scoots along during the rush), due to the lower max speed on track three. The only exception on three is from the control point at the east end of Elburn yard to the Control Point at 44. You will get train control there at 42on a flasher because the next block between 43 and 44 is so short. As for the MP36's being too heavy for the bridges, I was also told that it is not due to the overall weight of the units, but rather what that translates into in terms of weight per axle. We had the 6936 come in from the north a few years ago. 8 axles, but evidently the weight per axle was sufficient. The OL train last week had a raggedy C40-8 on either end (for ATS purposes) along with the 1995 (SD70Ace) on the west end and the 2010 (ES44 "Super Twinkie) on the other behind the dash 8's.We did have some of our F40s in the 150, 60 and low 70 series go through a rebuild a few years back, only at 47th St on the Rock. You can tell the rebuilds as they got "pushbutton" handbrakes and, much to my disliking, the padded floors came out and hard ones put in. Hence these "Bricks" came back louder in the cab AFTER rebuild than they were when they went in. I hear that some of our other units are supposed to go to ProgressRail for the "ground up" rebuilding that other F40s just went through, and Metra will shoot us some of their power to make up for the units that are gone. I wonder what the odds are of getting them to send us the 611 and 614? Probably nil since I am sure they are not equipped with our cab signals.
Actually, only the 160-172 or 173 have the pushbutton handbrake. But I agree with you on the rest of the "rebuild": it sucks. I also understand that ProgressRail was holding some units hostage for non-payment of the bill. I had the 172 for my northbound trip tonight and I must've had some overachievers back there because that train was really hard to move until we got to about Highland Park. You obviously are one of them flatlanders. :)
Just curious, could the units going through ProgressRail be de-rated to 3,000 hp?
Ok now I am going to have to check some of the 150's when I get one next time for the pushbutton. I dont know, they are all the same to me, dirty and noisy. I am suprised I can even pass a hearing test, and thats with doubling up on the hearing protection with earplugs and muffs. I guess the thing I dislike most about them is the amount of lateral motion they have at higher speeds. The 140 has to be the worst. Yes, I am one of those that runs the "Pumpkin Line" as you Cheesers call it, but right now I am an "Honorary Cheeser" till Nov. I actually prefer running on the Harvard Side. Its a nice change of pace. Not to mention the fact I was born and raised north of the Cheddar Curtain.
Altafest, you raise an interesting (to me) issue of lateral motion with Blomberg(sp?) trucks. Worn pedestal liners and wheels allow hunting?
I wonder if Amtrak engineers running F40s at 70-100 mph had a similar experience? Now most Amtrak runs are handled by P40s & P42s; but some corridor trains have NPCUs for push-pull operation.
HarveyK400 I wonder if Amtrak engineers running F40s at 70-100 mph had a similar experience? Now most Amtrak runs are handled by P40s & P42s; but some corridor trains have NPCUs for push-pull operation.
Harvey: FWIW I talked to a UP engineer that operated one of the first Pioneers into Portland and he was so concerned that he had the car knockers in PDX to check the running gear but no problems were obvious.
Had the 140 on my last trip today. Talk about a rough riding b*****! Must be the pedestal mounts as it has new dampers. I had the 157 last night and she's a pretty fast runner. OTOH, we didn't have the crowds of the night previous, either.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.