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The end of the world as we know it...

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The end of the world as we know it...
Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:17 PM
...or maybe thing really will change. Or, maybe bad enough is bad enough!

A conservative campaignind for an increase in tax? He basically says that roads and transit cost the same no matter how we collect hte money, so why not collect it the simplest way. Raise the state gas tax. Makes sense to me.

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/a-transit-solution-raise-322139.html?cxntlid=daylf_artr

Bonus points if you can connect the subject line of this post to the state of GA.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:24 PM

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 5:47 PM

Don::  I had not heard of this one since I am now out of the AJC circulation area. This has all the appearances of "Sonny do nothing's" fingerprints. A transit fund for only 10 years when the minimum requirement for federal funds is 20 years? And the election not until Feb 2012 during the Republican primary? What happened to the Nov 2010 governor's election? Oh this stinks!!!

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:48 PM
blue streak 1

Don::  I had not heard of this one since I am now out of the AJC circulation area. This has all the appearances of "Sonny do nothing's" fingerprints. A transit fund for only 10 years when the minimum requirement for federal funds is 20 years? And the election not until Feb 2012 during the Republican primary? What happened to the Nov 2010 governor's election? Oh this stinks!!!

This is an actual idea. And, it's from a Republican. And, it's about raising a tax. So, I don't think he's just a hack. Sonny's ideas have been....zzzzzz...sort....huh?

I do agree that the 10 year review is a bad idea for the reason you state. 2012 is a long way to wait, but if the economy comes back, with more traffic, by then, the a tax increase for transportation should pass. Right now, I doubt it would.

We can't do worse than Sonny. I'd take Barnes back. His legacy for transit in Atlanta are all those GRTA Xpress buses that have been a great success. I snooze on them every day.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by blownout cylinder on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:12 PM

oltmannd
Bonus points if you can connect the subject line of this post to the state of GA.

Thanks----now I got the R.E.M. song going through my cranium------

                                       --------"and I feel fine----"Whistling

Hey, at least you're not going to see increases in the number of toll roads----

Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry

I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...

http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:33 PM

oltmannd
do agree that the 10 year review is a bad idea for the reason you state. 2012 is a long way to wait, but if the economy comes back, with more traffic, by then, the a tax increase for transportation should pass. Right now, I doubt it would.

But it could have been voted on this Nov and again if needed 2012 during national elections.

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:38 PM
blownout cylinder

oltmannd
Bonus points if you can connect the subject line of this post to the state of GA.

Thanks----now I got the R.E.M. song going through my cranium------

                                       --------"and I feel fine----"Whistling

Hey, at least you're not going to see increases in the number of toll roads----

You win the bonus prize! (which happens to be bragging rights)

We have exactly one toll road in GA. It's about 8 miles long and costs 50 cents. We have miles and miles of 4 lane state highways thru the middle of nowhere, though. We also have a shortline subsidy program that's pretty well funded. But, we haven't had any new transit at all since the GRTA express buses started about 8 years ago.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:32 PM

Right, raise the gas tax...

And watch the trickle of electrics now being touted as commuter cars become a flood.  Most of the juice-drivers recharge at home (Berlin's recharging stations have gone mostly unused.)  Now, how do you sort the car-charging juice out of the usual home electrical load so you can tax it?

Any financing structure built on taxing petroleum fuel is built on a shifting dune of very loose sand.

Note that I don't have any good answer to funding either new rapid transit or current travel infrastructure maintenance - but I can detect a bad answer at a million kilometer range.

Chuck

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:48 PM

There is a governor of a certain eastcoast state (state initials NJ) who right now want to return to the glory days of yesterday to at least Ron Regan economics and thoughts.  Eliminate public transit services and let them drive cars is his mantra.  He feels there is the ability, too, to pour more concrete and asphalt.  None of this is possible, mind you, but he has taken contemporary urban planning and philosophies and thrown them away in favor of an ancient, failed, system that does not work in today's practices.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:55 PM

Compared to Europe and Asia, the US pays virtually nothing in gasoline tax now. As a French diplomat once said, in response to a question about if he felt bad for the US because of it's economic problems, "I have no sympathy for a country that could solve all of it's problems by simply increasing it's gasoline tax by fifty cents".

Stix
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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, March 18, 2010 1:53 PM
tomikawaTT

Right, raise the gas tax...

And watch the trickle of electrics now being touted as commuter cars become a flood.  Most of the juice-drivers recharge at home (Berlin's recharging stations have gone mostly unused.)  Now, how do you sort the car-charging juice out of the usual home electrical load so you can tax it?

Any financing structure built on taxing petroleum fuel is built on a shifting dune of very loose sand.

Note that I don't have any good answer to funding either new rapid transit or current travel infrastructure maintenance - but I can detect a bad answer at a million kilometer range.

Chuck

Yes, 50-75 years from now we'll have to fund highways with something other than a petroleum tax. But, for the next 20-30 years at least, a gas tax is a pretty safe bet.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:02 PM
henry6
There is a governor of a certain eastcoast state (state initials NJ)
It's obvious he's no Kean, or even Whitman. The NJT expansion really got rolling under Kean, if I remember right.

The big problem in NJ is that people who work in NYC and Phila who live in NJ pay nearly zero income tax to NJ. NJ forgives them the wage tax they pay where they work. The saddest thing about the wage taxes is the payers don't have any residency rights to city services. They can't even check a book out of the city library they're helping to pay for. Yet, the state has to carry the whole burden for getting their citizens to their jobs in the neighboring city. Maybe it's time for differential non-resident tolls and fares....

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, March 18, 2010 4:06 PM

Yes.  Lets end the world as we know it.  Lets create a state from The Connecticut River east to the Alantic and north as far as the northern MA border; another state from west of the CT River to the Delaware River, south of the CT/MA boarder to Bay Head, NJ west to the Delaware; and still another state from south of Bay Head to Cape May, NJ west to Harrisburg and north to Allentown/Bethlehem.  Three new states based on the intradependency of the region on Boston, New York, and Philadelphia.  My lines are approximate, there can be movement according to statistical data and geographic dependence.  This will help solve not only NJ's problems but help NY's Upstate/Downstate and some of PA's east/northeast/midstate/west conflicts, too.  And MTV would have to find a new show!

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by BNSFwatcher on Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:30 PM

If NJ residents, that work out-of-state, beat most of the NJ income tax, how come NJ is the highest-taxed state in the union?  I know their gasoline taxes are way low, and have been for decades.  Don't any of them want to work in Hoboken or Camden?

Anyone old enough to remember New York City's parking tax?  If you lived out-of-the-city, you could beat that.  BTW, it didn't work!

Taxes are NOT the cure, methinks.  Put 'em all on welfare!

Hays

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:42 PM

NJ residents have the highest property taxes but not income tax.  They have a sales tax, too, but less than in NYC, and a very low gas tax too that keeps their per gallon pump price up to 50 cents lower than neighbors NY or PA.  The NYC parking tax is not on NYC residents but rather Upstate NY, CT, NJ, and PA commuters as are bridge and tunnel tolls, Nope, NJ residents pay a hefty part of thier income to the States of NY and PA and to the cities of NY and Philadelphia.  Just for the privlidge of having a job.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by blownout cylinder on Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:55 PM

Sounds like the sitchumacation we have up here. An MP from down around here--being London ON--is muttering darkly about Federal and Provincial infrastructure $$$ disappearing into Toronto--the Center Of The Known Universe. At the rate it has gone towards T.O. he wants to secede from the province of TORONTO and we do our own thingWhistling

And we are hearing about more rumbles about toll roading ----can I verb this?---ALL 400 series highways. That will prove rather interesting here----Whistling

Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry

I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...

http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/

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Posted by BNSFwatcher on Friday, March 19, 2010 2:34 PM

Saying you have a lower sales tax than NY is like you are only a little bit as dead as U. S. Grant.  Don't the bridges and tunnels into NYC belong to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey?  Is NY stealing all the funds?  I can still drive, from "upstate" NY, or CT, into Manhattan without paying a toll.  How I do that is a secret.  Sorry!  Time for y'all to lower your taxes and create jobs in scenic Cartaret and Plainfield!  Of course, all NY residents can avoid the tolls by "going west".  No tolls, WB, but "you can't go home again".

Hays

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Posted by henry6 on Friday, March 19, 2010 3:18 PM

First, I live in Upstate NY so I am not saying I have higher taxes than NJ or whatever.  Second, anyone who knows the New York and New Jersey Port of Authority knows it is almost a government and entity unto itself; tolls are paid on the any of the bridges from NJ to New York or through the two tunnels.  And yes, you can drive from Upstate NY and CT into the City without paying a toll but neither Upstate NY nor CT is NJ. (How do you do that?:  Back and side roads and other parallel to the turnpikes and expressways roads from CT, that's easy; the I84 bridge across the Hudson Upstate is toll free; the NY Thruway is free east of Suffern.  But distances and time in avoiding the tolls can be just as costly or more in terms of fuel consumption and lost time.  The cost of services in the NY and Philadelphia Metropolitan areas is almost as high as inner city costs.  WIth income taxes being taken by the two cities and states, the only thing left for NJ to do to raise income is to tax property and sales.

This is why I thought up the concept of "city states" of Boston, New York, and Philadelphia so that those specifically most influenced, connected, commuitiies reliant economically upon the specific city share the regional responsiblities of taxes, highways, rail transport.  This would also free us of  the "upstate" or "midstate" or "western part of state" jealousies and costs.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:37 PM

henry6

NJ residents have the highest property taxes but not income tax.  They have a sales tax, too, but less than in NYC, and a very low gas tax too that keeps their per gallon pump price up to 50 cents lower than neighbors NY or PA.  The NYC parking tax is not on NYC residents but rather Upstate NY, CT, NJ, and PA commuters as are bridge and tunnel tolls, Nope, NJ residents pay a hefty part of thier income to the States of NY and PA and to the cities of NY and Philadelphia.  Just for the privlidge of having a job.

Hardly 50 cents difference. The gasoline tax in New York is 63 cents per gallon, in Pennsylvania 50.7 cents per gallon, and New Jersey 30.9 cents per gallon. Note these figures include 18.4 cents per gallon federal excise tax. That's a 32.1 cent difference to New York and 19.8 cent difference to Pennsylvania. The NYC Parking Tax was advertised as a deterrent to driving into the city and encouragement to use mass transit. I work in New Jersey and live in Pennsylvania. I only pay income tax to Pennsylvania. New Jersey residents working out of state must have a bad deal on taxes if what you say is true.

Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown
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Posted by BNSFwatcher on Sunday, March 21, 2010 7:49 PM

The entire New York State Thruway was supposed to have gone toll-free twenty years ago.  What happened?  Are you telling me there is no toll on its Tappan Zee Bridge?  I-84, at Poughkeepsie, is toll-free?  Cool!  My formula, and do not widely diseminate this, please, is only for drivers on the "Right Side" of the Hudson.  Use the Merrit/Hutchinson River or Bronx River Parkways.  Cross the Harlem river on the Third Avenue/Willis Avenue Bridges.  I found my times better off-the-beaten path.  Naturally, driving a Porsche helped!  Don't forget to lock your doors and roll up the windows!  These are only some of my tricks, but....  Send me a check and I'll divulge the rest.

Years ago, my family would drive to Madison, Florham Park, &/or Boonton, from Westchester, to visit relatives.  Dad would drive the Buick over the GW Bridge and fill up in NJ.  Gas was $0.21 in NY, $0.19 in NJ!  Quite a savings, back in the '40s.

I bought a book, a long while ago.  Yar!  I really did!  It was called "The Nine Nations of North America", or some such.  I'll look it up.  It advocated/theorized dividing North America into nine (?) countries, along political/ethnic/cultural/linguistic lines.  I think a friendly "borrower" failed to return it, but I'll check around the root cellar.  Rather interesting, it was.  I'll do an "Amazon" search and get back....

Hays

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