What ever happened to the planned/announced restoration of trolley (streetcar) service on 42d Street in Manhattan? Did the 'pols' lie to us, again?
Hays
New York is not the center of the universe so most of us never heard of this proposal. Anyway, the prior streetcar service on 42nd Street was a conduit operation so restoration of such a service would be incredibly expensive. It's also possible that the proposal of such a service was rubber-tired vehicles with carbodies of appropriate appearance.
I am sorry to inform you that Chicago is the "Second City". New York IS the "Center of the Universe". Anyhoo, the proposal, which I think was approved, was for a "center third-rail conduit" operation. Of course, this would involve digging down 5', or 6' below the existing pavement. No, not a cheap operation. The plan was for 'scarifying' the many layers of asphalt on "The Deuce" and exposing the original trolley tracks, and the original 'Belgium blocks' of the street. Double track! The "trolley barn" would have been in an un-used corner of the Port of New York Authority Bus Building (Sorry, drug dealers! You'll have to re-locate!). I, for one, would prefer it to be an 'overhead' trolley operation, although that wouldn't be historically correct. It would beat the 'subway', any day! Just my thoughts....
Hays, 2,000 miles away.
According to the latest Forbes Magazine, more billionaires live in NYC than any other city in the world. Dunno if CHI has any that aren't in jail. Too bad the NYC denizens aren't railfans, like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, and support the artsy-fartsy silliness! That would be cool! I doubt if any of them would know what a trolley car is....
In this day, trolleys on 42nd Street strike me as being about as sensible as putting stagecoaches on the L.A. - Las Vegas freeway (I-15.)
I can see the assembled opponents, everybody from the aforementioned billionaires, to the AAA, to whatever organization represents taxi drivers, all with a vested interest in keeping track-limited vehicles OFF the pavement and out of their way. Now add in that there's almost no available funding. The whole idea has the flying characteristics of a depleted uranium brick.
As for New York being THE city, tell that to the residents of London, Tokyo, Beijing... and, most especially, Paris. They'll either laugh or boo you out of the room...
Chuck (native New Yorker now 3000 miles removed)
Stagecoaches, on the nether parts of I-15 alementary canal (I live on it, albiet in MT) might make better time than the loons in their Priuses/Priii. Anyhoo, the 42d Street trolley would be great for the tourists/tourii, especially if it was free. Mayor Bloomberg can afford to donate it to the city. I dont think the taxi drivers (read: Maffia/Maffii members) would object. It now takes 17 hours to go from 9th Ave. to 1st Ave. in a taxi, via "The Deuce". Any New Yorker, in a hurry (what??? Never happen!) would use the 42d St. subway "Shuttle".
Paris? "The City"? For what? I'd better not get into that....
I questioned a friend, who has a condo on 42d St., between 3d Ave. and Lex., about the trolley. He said he hadn't heard anything about it in years. He also stated that he would welcome it, as it would increase the value of his condo and be very handy!
I grew up (if indeed I ever did grow up) Manhattan's west side. The 42nd Street streetcar would be a boon, but it would impact auto traffic and might not be the best first choice of a new generation Manhattan streetcar line . A better choice would be Broadway from 125th Street down to Columbus Circle only, to be extended south in auto traffic with northbound track on 8th and sourth on B;way conforming to existing one-street patterns, and then joining the 42nd st. line, this second phase only after the first phase has proved itself . The first phase has the tracks against the center mall, serves as a horizonatal elevator for the huge market of all kinds of stores and entertainment along Broadway, not just Lincoln Center but many movie houses, hotels, restaurants, clothing stores, you name it. Broadway is two-way, and this discourages traffic since driving on it means stop and go, but the lights could very easiliy be timed to favor light rail operaton in both directions, including passenger loading and unloading, of course, left-handed to and from the center mall. There is a good locaton under the west side highway or under riverside drive for a car house at 125th Street. In addition, the poles on the center mall would be in a line of trees, with brackets to the tracks on each side of the mall, and thus the wire above would not make a great visual impace on the street scene.
I have no illusion that the 42d Street trolley would be a harbinger of future streetcar developments. If you are in New York, and gott'a get somewhere, take the subway! I just think it would be "cool" and a great tourist attraction. Those that live near the "Deuce" would benefit, no doubt, even if it wasn't free. I do see a problem of getting the "disadvantaged" off of it. They would ride 24/7, on a free fare. That is not an insurmountable problem, but something to contemplate. Hmm! Maybe make the eastern terminal at the Bellview (sp?) Phychiatric Ward and unload 'em with a forklift. It would save the cops, or "Rescue 1", from picking them up. The cops, and firemen, have better things to do, methinks.
http://www.vision42.org/about/plan.php
thanks for the pix
Looking east to the 3rd Ave. El station, Chrysler Building on the left. According to the NY Daily News, Alvin "Shipwreck" Kelly ate 13 donuts while doing a headstand on a board sticking out from the 54th floor of the Chanin Building on Oct. 13, 1939.
I guess being a "loon" is not a new phenomenon. When I was working on the construction of 750 Third Ave (NYC), ca. 1957, we had a guy come by with a large "ILNICO" (?) magnet. He wanted our 250# labor foreman to slap it on a steel beam, high above Third Avenue, and hang by it, for a publicity shot showing its strength. Fortunately, my father suggested trying it inside the building first. It didn't hold. The guy ran for his life, with the magnet! He is still hiding from the IHCB&CLU of A (AFL-CIO) Local #59 mafia!!! I also remember seeing films of a guy balancing a standing toddler on his hand, high above Broadway. Pret' scary, methinks. He was no Buster Keaton! BTW, were they glazed donuts? Yum!
BNSFwatcher I guess being a "loon" is not a new phenomenon. When I was working on the construction of 750 Third Ave (NYC), ca. 1957, we had a guy come by with a large "ILNICO" (?) magnet. He wanted our 250# labor foreman to slap it on a steel beam, high above Third Avenue, and hang by it, for a publicity shot showing its strength. Fortunately, my father suggested trying it inside the building first. It didn't hold. The guy ran for his life, with the magnet! He is still hiding from the IHCB&CLU of A (AFL-CIO) Local #59 mafia!!! I also remember seeing films of a guy balancing a standing toddler on his hand, high above Broadway. Pret' scary, methinks. He was no Buster Keaton! BTW, were they glazed donuts? Yum! Hays
Alnico is shorthand for an alloy: aluminum-nickel-cobalt, which holds an electrical charge quite well and makes for a powerful magnet. This kind of incident makes a strong case in favor of union labor.
Great photos. Most of the photos showed two types of streetcars. (The were not trolley cars, note the absence of poles and overhead wire. The conduit system saw used with a power rail and return current rail on either side of slot between the running rails. The older deck-roof cars were introduced first to the Broadway and 42nd Street Line about 1912. They are Brill-built converatables, with side panels that were replaced by screens in the summer. They were converted to one-man operation with tredle-operated rear doors about 1928-1929 and ran on all major Manhattan Third Avenue Railway routes except the 59th St. crosstown where the spacing between tracks was too narrow. They were displaced on the Broadway-42nd Street route in 1935 by the 101-200 series home-buit lightweights, also assigned to the Third and Amsterdam line, but continued on the 42nd Street Crosstown until that line was bussed in Nobember 1946. The home-made Huffliners, 551-625 replaced the 101-200 series on Broadway in 1937 and 1938 (named after Slaughter Huff, TARS Manager), and they are the modern cars in the photographs. Ten 101's returned to the "B" as rush hour trippers to handle increased traffic during WWII. The "B" was bussed just before New Years Day 1947. The Huffliners ended up in Sao Paulo, Brazil. The very last Manhattan streetcars lines, the K, 125th Crosstown, and B'way-145th quite on 29 June 1947. Streetcars from the Bronx continued to enter Manhattan until August 1948, and New York City's (and State's) last streetcar was the Queensboro Bridge Railway in 1957.
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