I was disappointed to read that MTA's LIRR service to Greenport will be eliminated and that service to Montauk will be reduced. Of course, they are on the "Right Wing" of Long Island, and cutbacks have to be made to pay Joseph Rutigliano's and Edward Koerber's green's fees. BTW, any news on these "humps'" RRA disabilities benefits litigation, if any?
Hays -- Old "Cannonball" rider. That was fun!
The LIRR service to the East End has long been a rush-hour only rail operation with rail-bus service on middays and most of the weekends. If the overall ridership to the East End is down, service cutbacks make sense. Parlor car service got cut back a long time ago.
Actually the Greenport service is currently all rail service. Change at Ronkonkoma...weekdays lv Gprt 5:30 and 11:39 am and 9:44pm, one trip from RIverhead 3:19pm; arr Gprt 10:27am and 8:17pm, one to Riverhead ar 2:27pm, one to Yaphank ar 5:40pm (presumidly DH to G'prt.) Weekends: Lv Gprt 1:11pm and 6:11pm, Ar Grpt 12:05pm and 5:05pm. This is actually more service than the LIRR was giving back in the 50's! Now the prospect is to discontinue all weekday services permenantly and weekend services will be summer only. I've done my Ridewithmehenry trips out there serveral times. Weekends are best leaving NY Penn Station at 9:15AM and getting back about 4PM. At Grnport there is both a whaling museum and a railroad museum plus several nearby sandwich shops. You only have an hour, but it can be fun. Now is the time to do it while the leaves are gone and you can see a lot. But summer is great when it is warm and the museums are open. If you want to do it real justice and have the time, take the 9:15AM train out, arrive at noon, spend the whole afternoon enjoying the musuems, watch the ferry boat to Shelter Island (ride it?), take in the town overall, leave at 6:11P getting back in the city just before 10P. Great family day and cheap, too!
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"Cannonball" illumination: back in the '60s, LIRR ran solid parlor car trains (about ten cars) on the south shore, all by that name. Sometimes as many as three (sections?) of a Friday evening. Wunnerful service, wunnerful drinky-poos, in "Route of the Dashing Commuter" glasses! No plastic! I'd take one out and return Sunday nite or Monday morning. Life was good!
Hays
Must have been great. here's the ex-Phoebe Snow parlor car "Aquabogue" in 1974.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
The Cannonball of course is a South shore train that still runs Fri's in the summer. That is also a fun fan ride the Ridewithmehenry groups have done several times in modern times. I remember a late 70's railfan outing one Saturday sponsored by the Tri State Chapt. NRHS which was all parlor. Both ex Phoebe tavern lounges were in the consist along with almost a dozen more parlors!. Today its a good weekend fan trip even with regular equipment,, too, but no accessable eating establishments at Montauk means bring your own lunch!
BNSFwatcher "Cannonball" illumination: back in the '60s, LIRR ran solid parlor car trains (about ten cars) on the south shore, all by that name. Sometimes as many as three (sections?) of a Friday evening. Wunnerful service, wunnerful drinky-poos, in "Route of the Dashing Commuter" glasses! No plastic! I'd take one out and return Sunday nite or Monday morning. Life was good! Hays
I am wondering that since Wi-Fi is beginning to come into wide use if this kind of service would again be in demand?
It sounds like a possibility but you would have to be realistic about it. Parlor cars are more likely to be 2-1 seating similar to airline first class. Parlor cars with a 29-seat & 1 drawing room configuration are a thing of the past.
they are like diners...different thus more expensive to clean, maintain, and stock.. Plus there is the "service" angle which means an attendent for the bar and one for serving (per car or pair of cars?). I do believe, however, that the Fri. afternoon and Sat. morn. in the summer, do have some kind of "first class" service; to what extent I don't know.
When the CN&W still had parlor/bar cars on 1-2 the Milwaukee division (running to the Chicago equivalent of the Hamptons, except daily) suburban trains, there was a membership fee which paid for the waiters, etc.
CSSHEGEWISCH It sounds like a possibility but you would have to be realistic about it. Parlor cars are more likely to be 2-1 seating similar to airline first class. Parlor cars with a 29-seat & 1 drawing room configuration are a thing of the past.
I was thinking more of s service and seating somewhat like 1st class ACELA service. The extra fare and service would be a must. Often wondered if commuter rail would ever get back to that kind of service. The potential of using Wi-Fi is going to be very interesting for AMTRAK service in future.
I forgot about having to take a 'cattle car' (MU) to the "Change at Jamaica" for the "Cannonballs", from Penn Station, as they were locomotive-hauled on the eastern end. New York Central had membership-only "Private" MUs and loco-hauled cars, on both the Hudson and Harlem Divisions. One went "'Round-the-Horn", from Golden's Bridge to Brewster, via Lake Mahopac. New Haven had 'members only' MU cars, too, but I am not sure how far they went. I was never invited to join any of them! Har! You could tell if they were on your train in GCT: all the shades were drawn on the platform side and there was an attendant standing guard in the vestibule.
Lackawanna had a few routes, too. The Lakeland Express to and from Washington, NJ always had a parlor/private club. There were, and my memory escapes me, three MU's. In the 50's two went Hoboken-Gladstone and one went to Morristown. Then train 633 would leave Hoboken at 4:15P with 9 cars cutting a coach and a parlor/private club at Gladstone and another pair backed into the Railway Express track at Morristown. The other parlor/private club was on a later all Gladstone train. I don't know the morning procession on these.
The PRR most notable was the Bay Head bound The Broker out of Exchance Pl. Don't know how it was after EP was closed. Heard the CNJ had a few but never heard of any on the Erie (doesn't mean there weren't any).
Real demise was because of the demise of long distance passenger service and dining cars as these cars were stocked from the same commisaries and employed same attendents. Of course ridership faded as the super private automobile took over. Errr, who served the coffee and muffins in the morning and had the martini poured just right for the trek home? State Police!?
blue streak 1I am wondering that since Wi-Fi is beginning to come into wide use if this kind of service would again be in demand?
You would think the Wall Street tycoons (AIG, GS, JPM and Citi )would have such cars so they didn't have to hear the abuse of the peons in coach!
schlimm blue streak 1I am wondering that since Wi-Fi is beginning to come into wide use if this kind of service would again be in demand? You would think the Wall Street tycoons (AIG, GS, JPM and Citi )would have such cars so they didn't have to hear the abuse of the peons in coach!
One of the interesting things I have noticed about commuters is that they are quite democratic and would not consider "peons" to be amongst them. After commuter hours, yes. But during the commute there is a spirit of brotherhood that trancends class. Some of this is based on job and pay similarities of those aboard any given train as to where they are going and at what time; there is strong attraction or accpetance based on home communit, too, almost a sport rivalry with the tax district at the next stop.. However, outside of peak hours there seems be a more notable aknowledgement of social divisions. If you're aboard the 5:10 to Hometown waiting for the train ahead to clear, you're all in the same boat....even if it is a commuter coach.
I would hardly consider the bi-level gallery coach in which I ride twice daily to be a "cattle car", whatever that means. It is a high capacity coach but I still can read the paper or nap comfortably on the ride home in one of the single seats on the upper level. Even a walkover seat can be pretty cozy.
CSSHEGEWISCHI would hardly consider the bi-level gallery coach in which I ride twice daily to be a "cattle car"
Nor would I, either back in the day or currently. The bi-levels are very comfortable. The bar cars on the C&NW that I recall riding a few times (a work friend from Lake Forest was a member) were converted single level intercity cars. Those folks, who were the North Shore blue blood types, along with a desire to drink while they rode, didn't want to sit with the hoi-poloi.
I'm perplexed. If the Greenport service is cut back because it is uneconomical, how can the expense of maintaining the infrastructure be justified for a Summer-only service?
Could a through train (with parlors?) be run after the height of the peaks with a mid-day turn back to Greenport? Same for Montauk?
henry6Actually the Greenport service is currently all rail service. Change at Ronkonkoma...weekdays lv Gprt 5:30 and 11:39 am and 9:44pm, one trip from RIverhead 3:19pm; arr Gprt 10:27am and 8:17pm, one to Riverhead ar 2:27pm, one to Yaphank ar 5:40pm (presumidly DH to G'prt.) Weekends: Lv Gprt 1:11pm and 6:11pm, Ar Grpt 12:05pm and 5:05pm. This is actually more service than the LIRR was giving back in the 50's! Now the prospect is to discontinue all weekday services permenantly and weekend services will be summer only. I've done my Ridewithmehenry trips out there serveral times. Weekends are best leaving NY Penn Station at 9:15AM and getting back about 4PM. At Grnport there is both a whaling museum and a railroad museum plus several nearby sandwich shops. You only have an hour, but it can be fun. Now is the time to do it while the leaves are gone and you can see a lot. But summer is great when it is warm and the museums are open. If you want to do it real justice and have the time, take the 9:15AM train out, arrive at noon, spend the whole afternoon enjoying the musuems, watch the ferry boat to Shelter Island (ride it?), take in the town overall, leave at 6:11P getting back in the city just before 10P. Great family day and cheap, too!
Seems to me that the "cattle car" remark refers to chronic standees and crowding, narrow (3+2), and closely spaced seats on LIRR trains as compared with Metra. We have it pretty good in Chicago; but that could change.
You got it! The State Police! But only in New Jersey, for ex-Gov. Corzine. You, friend, are still a peon.
Yeah, Harvey, its got me wondering too. But there is freight service on the line, too, with some potential probably in agricultureal products. Evidently there are two trainsets and two crews involved in the service. Weekdays the day is quite spread but weekends its a little closer together. Parlor service has always been on the south shore, I don't remember (doesn't mean it never was) service to the north fork. Overall commuter railroads don't seem to be able to break out of the marketing box to utilize thier whole railroads and complimentary and supplimentary services to manufacture a touristy or family day trip attraction of any kind. There are tons of museums and sights on LI which should be seen and could be done often within existing services. Greenport has two museums on the traps of the trains but the one hour is not enough to fully enjoy and five hours may be too much...I'm thinking Sats and Suns here...perhaps an hour earlier departure from the city or an hour later departure from Grnprt with the features hyped as a full day. Or do these two museums, bus down along the bay for another attraction or two and grab a Montauk line train back to the city. Montauk! Why not provide a jitney or whatever to take one out to the Lighthouse and to a restaurant? Oyster Bay demands a complimentary or supplimentary ride to see Teddy's place. And there are hundreds of places east of the Queens-Nassau line and east again of the Nassau-Suffolk line which could be packaged. No, not every weekend, but one a month or a different one every weekend. Railfans and tourist and those who hate to or can't drive on LI would love it. (Oh, I've go ideas for MNRR and NJT, too, which would use some ingenuity but not extra trains or crews. But as I said, marketing beyond the commuter is not these companies' strong suits but somewhere, sometime, it is going to have to be done to survive!)
henry6But as I said, marketing beyond the commuter is not these companies' strong suits but somewhere, sometime, it is going to have to be done to survive!)
I'm afraid it's the "imagination thing!" Given the primary mission of commuter lines is the transporting of commuters, unless one can hand them a package with all the details worked out that guarantees a profit or at least break even, I doubt if they would see it as worth the added work.
I am not sure the marketing employees are really to blame. There are few of them, yes, but they are also so finely charged by management they really can't think out of the box no matter how much they are capable or or want to. I am sure pressure from the top keeps them in check. Plus being public entities, it becomes even more difficult to expand the visions of marketing simply because politicos would keep them in check. I do note the LIRR has done some good packages, more so than other agencies I follow. Often the best that can be done, or is done, is coupons and discounts in conjunction with travel. I wish I lived closer to the NY Metropolitan area as I see an opportunity for someone who knows the transportation system, where it goes, how it can be integrated, and what might be some good day trips (for non railfans, I already do it for railfans). On another front, I even know of a charter bus company whose sole marketing person just can't put together all that could be available even though there are enough buses and drivers to do more.
I think the New York & Atlantic only provides freight service as far east as Southold. If LIRR discontinues service, on a 7-day basis, the line from Southold to Greenport will be history. Maybe more, to the west, would be dismantled. Not much "ag" out there, anymore. All the potato fields are condos, McMansions, or golf courses.
I think you're pretty much right Hays, it is very "developed" out there but I'm not sure how fare the NY&A goes at the moment. Lots of wineries, nursuries, and quarries of some kind, but not sure they do rail; some lumber yards with incoming traffic. Potato fields are pretty well gone but the condos and McMansions and golf courses permeate the south fork.
Comments as a truck driver. 1 There is a very considerable amount of freight into and out of Long Island both in Nassau and Suffolk counties. In the category of heavy industries try to remember Grumman in Bethpage. Rail friendly shipments I can think of several commercial bakeries that have the potential of carload flour & sugar(Unfortunetly they are not built on any railline) . Long Island needs to have intermodal. The Hamptons are kind of the exception to that. (Mostly small stuff inbound nothing out).
Personal opinion of the Long Island Expressway(L.I.E.) , it sucks. No truck stops 1 pullout car drivers rude & ignorant(even the Mercedes) None enforcement of the speed limits(55 mph) . L.I.E. needs to be a toll road benefiting the Long Island RR.
Rgds IGN
Parlor cars are a thing of the past. What the LIRR had got sold/donated just like the F units. What irks me is the railroad appears to me to be courting off peak fares for week enders. The "core business" (unless I am really out of touch) of commuters has endured fare hikes, the "payroll tax", and now, reduced service. I ride train #2733 in the AM (5:25 am out of Mastic-Shirley) and #2712 in the PM (4:30pm out Hunterspoint Ave), which is being cut. So we pay more, get less in a already under served zone. The pricing doesn't follow the logic of the new service proposal if I'm understanding it correctly. And Greenport is the end of the original "mainline" from the 1840's. It is speed restricted for most of the distance from Ronkonkoma. Hour and 45 minutes to go about fifty miles.
The "Cannonball" is, if I'm not mistaken , the longest running "named" train in the US. It has reserved seating and additional baggage space, but not much else. The days of on board refreshments (unless BYOB) are but a memory.
Off-peak fares are a pretty routine way of putting bodies in the seats of lightly used trains that are going to run anyway. Metra in Chicago has a $7.00 unlimited weekend pass which has been rather popular. It generates income and ridership that might not be there if full fares were charged. My monthly ticket is already a substantial discount from one-way fares so I don't begrudge the weekend pass.
CSSHEGEWISCHOff-peak fares are a pretty routine way of putting bodies in the seats of lightly used trains that are going to run anyway. Metra in Chicago has a $7.00 unlimited weekend pass which has been rather popular. It generates income and ridership that might not be there if full fares were charged. My monthly ticket is already a substantial discount from one-way fares so I don't begrudge the weekend pass.
Does the South Shore offer weekend deals from Randolph Street to the Dunes?
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