Well everything that supporters of Rail transit feared could happen has happened. It was announced tonight that the Ga. DOT has filed a formal opposition to Atlanta's light rail 26+ mile belt line light rail proposal. Even though it was filed early last week it only came out upon someone's inquiry. GDOT gave no notice to Atlanta which has spent alot of money in ROW and adjoining real estate acquisitions. GDOT's supposed opposition is that a small portion would cause problems with Ga's commuter rail. What rail do you say? Only studies and no final plans to even start an EIS that I know of! All of you know that commuter rail and light rail can exist side by side.
My suspicion is that our great rail governor Sonny Perdue who just loves to build roads has a hand in this opposition. The Ga. constitution say that all gasoline tax revenue will go for transportation but even though Ga. has an estimated 2 billion shortfall in its next budget 2 Billion (funny thing) will come out of the general budget for roads instead of raising the gas tax and not having to cut other government services. Many of the proposed cuts are in critical areas and Sonny's wants to raise our property taxes. Also I UNDERSTAND although haven't seen the GDOT opposition letter that MARTA also took a hit.
I don't think the Gov loves to do anything. He is rarely for or against anything. He's just there, taking up space and using up oxygen.
His big Atlanta traffic initiative? Timing lights on interstate entrance ramps. Took almost 3 years to install and turn them on. woopee!
He DID finally come out FOR commuter rail, once gasoline hit $4/gal last fall. But, has he shown any leadership since. No.
The Belt Line is an interesting project, although I suspect it's primary value is in real estate development, not traffic congestion relief. Since the DOT judges projects primarily on traffic congeston relief, the Belt Line would have trouble passing muster for state funds. Atlanta is free to do it on their own, however. The referendum that allows them to raise money to do the project passed last fall.
The Lovejoy (now Griffin) commuter rail line is "shovel ready" and has been for a couple of years. The "Brain Train" (CSX Abbeville Sub/Athens) route is close behind. It;ll be interesting to see if the Legislature actully funds either of these or if they will even allow the counties to form partnerships and impose an additional one cent sales tax for such projects. That proposal failed last year. Even if it passes this year, it takes a const. ammendment, which we have to vote on in the next election, so it would be a minimum of two years before anybody picks up a shovel.
It this a great state, or what?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Is it possible for either of the two proposed commuter-system to tie in with Atlanta's "heavy" RT -- that is, MARTA trains?
Al: Actually there are several transfer points planned (?) for the Atlanta systems. After going to the Charlotte - Atlanta - Macon HSR thread I found out the whys of the GDOT opposition. The layout of the old Atlanta Union and Terminal stations had some significant access problems for through traffic. The new Atlanta station will be in the general vicinity of Union station with traffic from Charlotte unable to continue south unless a back up move (1000 ft) out of Atlanta is completed. The High speed line proposal has the trains coming off NS about 1-1/4 miles NE of Peachtree station and following an old SOU transfer track to the GA RR yard then CSX into the new Atlanta station. Then HSR can proceed to go south on the C of GA tracks ( I have some question about that because of the layout of the old stations) to the proposed Atlanta airport station. Next it would proceed on the C of Ga tracks to where the tracks crosses I-75 a second time near Jonesboro then either down I-75 or on the old C of GA tracks through Griffin to Macon. ( not a very friendly track profile).
The use of the SOU transfer track ROW for lightrail seems to be GDOT's supposed opposition because it might preclude the HSR's ROW but again I see no problem with the ROW widened and it being shared. Again the general opposition by the rest of the state of Georgia of anything saying Atlanta and/or rail will probably have the whole lot of proposals an exercise in futility. Its really sad to know Atlanta is the largest US metropolitian area with no commuter rail even under construction or acquiring ROW. It is all about roads. As other posters have noted Atlanta's traffic woes are unbelievable and only the economic downturn is giving some relief. If you are traveling don't drive through Atlanta. If unavoiadble then only nights 7PM- 5AM or weekends.
I don't expect any more rail of any kind in the next 10 years unless the Feds use a carrot and stick approach and hold up road dollars (has been hinted at). Note: MARTA gets no state help at all. The Atlanta business community supports rail but has not so far been able to push anything through.
If you think I am over stating the problems you would not believe this statement I've heard. "( Los Angeles has a great expressway system and they haven't needed commuter rail)" I've actually had to show them Metrolink timetables and maps to convince them otherwise and explain the main problem in LA is not enough parking at stations.
In response of OLTMANND'S post: Governor Purdue appears to be so road and business orientated that he has not made a single public statement or action on Georgia's problem with P-NUT butter manufactured in Blakely, Ga. that is affecting millions of people. So we don't expect anything from him on a mundane item such as rail transportation that only affects 1 million people in Georgia.
blue streak 1 In response of OLTMANND'S post: Governor Purdue appears to be so road and business orientated that he has not made a single public statement or action on Georgia's problem with P-NUT butter manufactured in Blakely, Ga. that is affecting millions of people. So we don't expect anything from him on a mundane item such as rail transportation that only affects 1 million people in Georgia.
I don't even think he's road and business oriented. Remember, he was partly voted in for killing the Northern Arc of the outer perimeter. I think he's TAKE A NAP oriented....
What does it say of his leadership skills that he hasn't uttered a peep about the peanut butter debacle.
I think the only reason we still have the GRTA Xpress busses is that killing GRTA would have required him to actually take a position and DO something.
I'm not holding my breath.
al-in-chgo Is it possible for either of the two proposed commuter-system to tie in with Atlanta's "heavy" RT -- that is, MARTA trains?
I'm guessing that GDOT and Amtrak just want to make sure they don't get turfed out from having a progressive move thru any new downtown Atlanta passenger station by the Belt Line.
I'd be shocked if they don't reach some sort of accomodation.
Having just moved from Georgia about a year ago. One comment I will make about "conservatives" in Ga is this " They want someone else to pay there taxes for them"
Rgds IGN
Transportation in Ga is an utter mess. GA DOT has messed up so much on road and other projects that even the anti everything transportation republican GA legislature is enacting new laws to completely revamp the department. It also appears that some money may be missing. Even governor Sonny - Van - Winkle is getting on the band wagon. Many road projects are half completed and way over on contract time even though we've been a drought. Until this mess is cleaned up ( have my doubts ) nothing on air, roads, rail, or local transit transportation projects will happen. A source that works in transportation outside of GA DOT has been warning me for a year about this but I couldn't speak of it for confidentially reasons. Now it is out in the open.
Yall's govenor sounds as bad as ours when it comes to transportation other than highways !
videomaker Yall's govenor sounds as bad as ours when it comes to transportation other than highways !
**********
Anyone in the market for a blow-dried ex-governor from the Midwest?
This was the person who, apparently entirely on whim, "made" all RTA (Metra, PACE buses, and all CTA) free of charge to all seniors, all day, all of the time. I put "made" in quotation marks because I don't think the pseudo-generosity cost the State much, if anything.
Al,
Come to think of it,Our Gov, Perry has a striking resemblance to "that gov from the midwest" LOL ! Our gov. and the sitting powers that be on TxDOT are really closed minded to ANY other forms of transportation other than toll roads and more highways...We cant cant build anymore highways ! Their outdated by the time their finished and we still nearly gridlocked...
The Trans Texas Corridor is what Im referring to,check it out and see what I mean...
videomaker Al, Come to think of it,Our Gov, Perry has a striking resemblance to "that gov from the midwest" LOL ! Our gov. and the sitting powers that be on TxDOT are really closed minded to ANY other forms of transportation other than toll roads and more highways...We cant cant build anymore highways ! Their outdated by the time their finished and we still nearly gridlocked... The Trans Texas Corridor is what Im referring to,check it out and see what I mean...
Danny, I quite agree with what you're saying, though Chicago has its congestion headaches too. One thing I am proud of here is how well Metra has been doing over the past 20-some years to get people to ride their trains, usually to and from work.
But I am also impressed by the TRE and the Dallas DART system. Have got to go down there and ride the heck out of 'em! - al
It appears (?) that sonny - do - nothing got hit by that proverbial 2x4 and they have gotten AMTRAK to agree for the light rail useage. Now we'll see what happens in the next 6 months. LOL
In Boston, and 60 miles out in all directions, mass transit is controlled and run by one agency. The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, the MBTA.
In Boston, three of the four Subway Lines (outside third rail) come to the surface in the suburbs and run along Railroad right-of-ways, along side MBTA passenger trains. As you ride into Boston on an Amtrak Acela, you might look over to see a Subway train next to you.
For the most part, the Subway system handles traffic along its line and have muilti-deck parking garages located at outlying stations, the Commuter Rail (diesel powered, 80mph) will non-stop past the end of the Subway system before making stops further out in the suburbs. Keep in mind that MBTA Commuter Rail reaches out all the way to Fitchburg, Worcester, and Providence RI.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
Well, You will have the best time of your life ! TRE is now running on Sat..! Dart runs 24/7 I think !
TRE and Dart were Federally and private funded I believe,TxDOT didnt have a hand in those plans..
TxDot only deal in public transportation (state roads ,highways,tollways issues) and their idea of PT is More Highways..They just dont get it about rail,Theres a move afoot to get rail from south Tarrant Co. To ne Tarrant co but TxDot wants a highway rather than extend TRE...Beats me!
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