Caatenary at Harrison Station, New Jersey

[daveklepper]

The catenary and position lights did last quite a while, long after the black Stillwell cars were replaced, and I assumed PRR was continuing to use the line. with crossovers west of Journal Square still in place.   Is it possible that a local freight may have continued to use the line at night bypassing Waverly yard?  PATH is now replacing the signal system that replaced the position lights, with an advanced form of train control which will be compatible with the new equipment now on order.   But don't say that H&M replaced the lights, etc., the ownership and really the operation of the line went from PRR to PATH.  H&M's ownership and operation stopped at the west end of the yard west of Journal Square Station, and from there on it was PRR.   It would be interesting if PATH bought the PRR portion of the route at the same time as the H&M portion, which would be logical with your date of PRR passenger service to Jersey City.  Again, Harrison was not an H&M station, but a PRR station on a PRR-H&M joint service.

[timz]

there was a period after PATH took control and ownership of the H&M when the PRR continued to own the tracks west of Journal Square and continued to use the double track line for remaining service to Jersey City.

Not quite. PATH took over in 1962 as I recall-- PRR last passenger train to Jersey City was 1961.

After PRR discontinued Jersey City service, color light signals replaced position light signals

I'd be curious to know when the last position-light was removed from the H&M-- wonder if any lasted into the 1980s?

[daveklepper]

Thanks.   I do remember traveling from a project at Princeton U to Philadelphia, and one other time from Princeton U. to Baltimore.   Logically, I would have used the dinky (PJ&B) to Princeton Jc, then a regular mu to Trenton, and then a regular corridor train to either Philadelphia or Batlimore, and could have photographed the Metroliner while making the connection at Trenton.

I do remember that there was a period after PATH took control and ownership of the H&M when the PRR continued to own the tracks west of Journal Square and continued to use the double track line for remaining service to Jersey City.   Or perhaps PATH did own them and PRR used trackage rights, and PATH preserved the position light signal system and PRR ATC to accommodate these trains.   After PRR discontinued Jersey City service, color light signals replaced position light signals and subway type automotic stop trip arms replaced PRR ATC, thus bringing the whole PATH system to one standard.  The catenery was removed after that.   Only then were the K-class cars replaced by equipement compatible with the rest of the "PA" fleet.   Some K's were kept at work equipment and can probably be seen today.

When the Port Authority bougt the H&M, there was litigation over the price of the "black cars,"  the original Stillwell designed regular H&M equipment.   It amused me that the firm I worked for, Bolt Beranek and Newman, did a noise study of the black cars paid for by the Port Authority to prove that they were too noisy to be kept in service,----    when the brand new subway cars the Transit Authority was purchasing (later the Ref-Bird fleet) were even noisier!

[timz]

If it was 1968-69, and the platforms were high, and there were only four tracks between them, then I guess that means Trenton.

[daveklepper]

The above is correct.   My additional mistake and apologies to all of you.  The photo is clearly not Harrison.  I thought that the third rail on the far track was obscuring the running rail away from the platform, but then I remembered that H&M used wood cover boards on all its third rail, not just in critical places, and what I thought was the third rail is clearly just the far track running rail.   So the photo is clearly from another station on the corridor with a four-tracks main-line, and high ouitside "local" platforms.   Metropark station had not been constructed at the time, and most stations were low platforms.   My guess is the station is Princeton Junction, which I think did have high platforms, and the view is from the platform that is shared with the "Dinky" or "PJ&B" track, track five, and is itself an island platform.   Does this make sense? 

I wonder if Amtrak will restore its 4th track through Harrison once the second tunnel for NJT is built? 

[timz]

Here you can see the three remaining PRR tracks and the half-thru-girder bridge that carried the fourth one over 4th St, beneath the Harrison platforms. Plus the two H&M tracks, next to the platforms.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qspwwv8tm9n3&style=o&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=7932983&encType=1

Might as well look at the diagram too (1968 it says)-- click on the thumbnail, it's big

http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/dock.gif

[paulsafety]

8/2007 view of trackage at Harrison  http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?70905

 

[timz]

The layout is only four tracks at the station, not six.

Apparently your picture isn't clear enough. When Harrison got rebuilt in 1937 there were six tracks between the platforms, four PRR and the two tracks next to the platforms, used by H&M only. At some point PRR? PC? Amtrak? removed the former PRR track 4 through the station-- maybe 500? feet of it. Since then there have been (and still are) five tracks between the Harrison platforms. I gather you can't easily go and take a look for yourself, but the online aerial pics might help, and there must be lots of ground-level pics that show the current layout.

[daveklepper]

I came across a photograph that I had not seen for some time.   I took the picture on a return trip to New York in the Spring of 1968 or 1969, just after regular Metroliner service had started, and I wished to photograph a Metroliner, so I changed to PATH at Newark and rode to Harrison.   This was long before I did any sound system work for PATH, and at the time I was assigned to Bolt Beranek and Newman's Downers Grove, Illinois, office and living in the adjacent Chicago suburb of Westmont.  The photo shows an mu Metroliner Train with the PC, Penn Central, logo on the front.   First, one big mistake: The layout is only four tracks at the station, not six.   Second, three lines of catenary are clearly visible, with the fourth probably obscured by the platform canopy.   I do remember the trip, even if I don't remember whether in was '68 or '69, since in both years I frequently did take either route (NYC or PRR route) to New York on business.   I remember that the black Stillwell-designed H&M cars had all been replaced by shiny new PATH-designed equipment, but the K-class postwar cars bought by PRR and H&M for Hudson Terminal - Newark service were still running, repainted grey with PATH logos.   So at the time:  (1) There was catenary on the H&M tracks all the way from the crossovers west of Journal Square to Dock interlocking, with crossovers since removed east of the drawbridge.   (2) Path was probably still using the PRR position-light and ATC system west of Journal Square, and the K-class cars built for the Newark run had inhereted the cab-signal and ATC equipment from the red orginal cars they replaced.

Again, I am pretty sure frieght cars were loaded at one or the other of the Harrison station platforms during WWII.    The platform in the photograph is concrete, however, and if my memory of wood planking is at all correct, not necessarily so, it must refer to an earlier time than 1968 or 1969.

I would suspect that many Jersey City bound PRR trains and trains from JC used the same tracks at PATH at the time at this station.

Someone local can report on the current situation.