My partner Chuck and I just got back from a great eight-day trip, the major purpose of which was to ride transit, with a few breathers off for culture and shopping. Below are my impressions of the various lines and routes we used; they are nothing but opinion but I would like to see how that jibes with the experiences of others. This is not a catch-all, but if you're an insomniac or have nothing better to do, this might be worth the reading:
PHILADELPHIA, PA
SEPTA
Pre-Planning: Several weeks before we left, I e-mailed septa dot org with various requests and they mailed me a number of timetables and forwarded a personalized e-mail answering my more specialized requests (how to get to wherever, etc.). Also, at the so-called Suburban Station (which is a station for suburb-bound trains, not in the ‘burbs), SEPTA has have a huge wall of timetables; and during the day an open office where people can just butt in (I did!) and ask questions. With one exception, Septa controls all mass transit in Philadelphia as well as the suburbs, so the good people there also mailed me their schematic of the various "R" (for "regional") lines.
SEPTA has a wonderful online store, too, selling such delights as hats and a genuine chromatic harmonica for four dollars. Now that is a deal! Unfortunately, though, they neglected to send me the two one-day-unlimited travel passes I has asked for. Also, the nine-dollar route map I sent for was not as helpful as I had anticipated. It appeared to be nothing more than a good comprehensive street map of Philly with red lines attached to indicate transit routes. Unfortunately, the printing was so small I couldn't read which line was which; I made my real transit logistics decisions using the individual route timetables, which show connections. TIP: Save the nine dollars. This is especially true if you belong to the Triple-A, because their Philly map shows the Septa schematic of all the "R" Regional routes. Since my experience was so mixed, I have to give the whole pre-planning and information section a B only.
R1 Commuter Rail Line: We took this line from the Philadelphia airport downtown (or in Philly-speak, into Center City). On the Saturday we rode it, trains were running only every half hour. At seven dollars, the fare was higher than the number of zones warranted, clearly another case of the transit-riders subsidizing an airport. Still, our return to the airport in a cab turned out to be $27 plus tip, so for one or two people the R1 is nonetheless a bargain. There was a climatized booth at platform level so we could wait for the train in comfort. The train arrived on time and stayed that way. It took a path to the north of the airport freeway and at higher speeds (nothing over 60, I'd gather) the sway in the journey reminded me of the exx-IC, now Metra Electric lines, except that Metra uses bi-level coaches.
Quality of Ride (physical comfort, etc.): A-minus.
Sightseeing Potential: Other than paralleling the NEC for part of the way, next to none, mostly we ran through weedy patches in a cut. C.
Overall: B. The Suburban Station is very handy for people who have hotels in the touristic part of Center City, provided they can hustle their own luggage.
Reminds me of: The R6 route below. There seems to be a high degree of standard-ization among the various Regional-series lines.
R6 Commuter Rail Line: We took this from Suburban Station three stops shy of its terminus in downtown Norristown, as part of a transit "trifecta" along with the Route 100 high-speed and the Market-Frankfort Line Subway-Elevateed from 69th Street Terminal (see below).
Quality of Ride: Gentle rocking at top speeds. Not terribly fast. B.
Sightseeing Potential: More than we expected! The R6 line's catenary is suspended from huge, Tennessee Valley Authority-looking stanchions. The transition from city to suburb gained in affluence what it lost in historicity. A-minus.
Overall: B+
Reminds me of: The Metra-electric line in Chicago, but not bi-level.
SEPTA (continued):
Trolley nos. 11 and 13: We caught the no. 11 headed west at Suburban Station, one level lower than the R-trains. It makes more stops, then emerges to ground level, where the various trolley routes diverge. We took the same line, different trolley, back from the terminal loop, but we all got kicked off the train at the entrance to the "portal" (where the tunnel begins). Apparently SEPTA wanted to save some money by truncating our route. However, the switch to a no. 11 was quick and easy and ran through the same subterranean trolley as no. 13. The equipment was Kawasaki, circa early 1980s, and plaques below the builders' plaques indicated that the trolleys were reconditioned right in the Philadelphia SEPTA shops. They (and nos. 34,36, and 10 (I believe), are "true" trolleys right up to the pole.
Quality of Ride: Mediocre at best. A lot of swaying at high speeds in the tunnel, rather rugged on the above-ground parts. C+.
Sightseeing Potential: Depressing. Practically all the landscape from the portal exit to the end of the line was borderline-poor, very poor, or just plain ghetto. Still, not completely uninteresting; the street layout and elevations toward the end of the line are worthy of note. C
Overall: C-plus. SEPTA's home-grown overhaul of the original Kawasaki equipment made the "plus" solid.
Reminds me of: San Francisco's Muni Metro, but through much poorer neighborhoods.
Trolley no. 15 :
A trolley line that is the only remaining remnant of the days when PCC surface trolleys served all of Philadelphia, and it has its own special color-coding: blue. This line crosses the city east-to-west from Westmoreland Loop in the east to the Haddington neighborhood in West Philadelphia, the route latitudinally transversing roughly the point there the midtown "neck" of the city begins to open up into North Philadelphia. The PCC-era equipment has been thoroughly overhauled and even has air-conditioning.
Quality of Ride: Quite good, except that someone had probably slightly skidded a wheel. The buzzing on the Schuylkill River bridge at highest speed made this apparent. B.
Sightseeing Potential: Excellent, a cross-section of Philadelphia life, everyone from Catholic school kids in uniform to West Philadelphia shoppers. The no. 15 line terminates at the western Portal, with connection to the trolleys that run underground around and in Center City (see above). A
Overall: A-minus, the upgrade from a possible B-plus being the history of the PCC streetcar series and the fun of riding it.
Reminds me of: A Toronto streetcar line, but slightly down-at-the-heels.
Market-Frankford Line:
This is a mixed subway-elevated line that connects the east and west sides of Philadelphia; a great deal of the route runs near or under Market Street. Its eastern terminal is the "Frankford Transportation Center," where it connects to a great many SEPTA routes. At the western terminus, 69th Street, it's particularly handy for transfer to the 100-series routes (see below). Except for Center City, most of the line is elevated.
Quality of Ride: Generally okay, with a little forward-and-back jouncing at the higher speeds. B-minus.
Sightseeing Potential: Not the best. Aside from the occasional hospital or medical facility, the western portion consists of viable, but very poor neighborhoods. We did not travel the part that runs east of Center City. Like Chicago's L system, many if not most stations are outdated and dingy. C-.
Overall: Does its job, but with new transit stops a-building and the overall downbeat tone and dinginess of station and trains, utilitarian at best. C+
Reminds me of: The CTA's Red Line, but with wider coaches.
Norristown High-Speed (Rte 100):
Gets my nomination for the most true-to-type interurban I personally have ever ridden, including the CSS&SB. Rockets from one small town or suburb to another in the mode of the previous "Brilliners." Faced head-on, the single cars, Kawasaki-built, resemble Pennsylvania's symbol, the keystone, with electric equipment forming the top of the keystone. Connects at the eastern end with Lafayette and Swede avenues at the "Norristown Transportation Center," third stop out from downtown Norrisville on the R-6 line (see above). At the western end connects with the Market-Frankford Line (see above).
Quality of Ride: With all the stopping and starting, a little hard on the lumbar, but otherwise excellent. The speed is as much a part of the trip as the interurban ambience. The ride costs extra: a token (or two dollars) plus fifty cents. A-
Sightseeing Potential: Sylvan, with some interesting-looking suburbs. B.
Overall: In my partner's opinion, it's the best line. I give it an A-minus.
Reminds me of: The CSS&SB in a one-car format.
Media Trolley (Rte. 101) Connects the Market-Frankford terminal at 69th Street with downtown Media. The cars are very similar in appearance to the Kawasaki generation of streetcars (see nos. 11 and following above), but they use pantographs. Combining a full commute over Route 101 with the Market-Frankford line to Center City would take at least an hour, even with best possible connections. It takes about 32 minutes alone to travel from line's end to the 69th Street terminal.
Quality of Ride: Quite good. Medium-fast without rocking or swaying. A couple of rough patches. A-minus.
Sightseeing Potential: Numerous ever-more attractive suburbs on the way west. As the stops grow steadily more apart, so does the percentage of wooded land the trolley passes through. The no. 101's terminus is in downtown Media, about three-quarters of the way through the business zone. The area is charming: a classic upscale commuter suburb with a high "Norman Rockwell" quotient but perhaps a bit overconscious of that fact - a Yuppie kind of atmosphere. I would hazard a guess that Media, PA, was an independent town long before it got swallowed up in greater Philadelphia's suburbs. The restaurants along the main drag tend to be in the first-class category with an emphasis on Italian food. They are not cheap, but the meal we had at Fellini's ($55 to $60 for two) was memorable. If you're on a tighter budget, there is a good little ice-cream parlor on the north side of the tracks near Veterans' Square. Within downtown Media, the streetcar stops come about every other block; then at Orange Street the trolley tracks dwindle to just one; and then the wiring stops. Just like that - no loop. A-minus.
Overall: A-minus. Most fans' attention goes to the no. 100 line and its Brilliner heritage, but the no. 101 is well worth it too. I am only sorry that time constraints made us skip the no. 102 trolley route to Sharon Hill.
Reminds me of: A bygone era that still thrives in suburban Philadelphia.
PHILADELPHIA TO LINDENWOLD - PATCO.
This is the only other acronym you'll have to familiarize yourself with in Philadelphia. The Port Authority Transit Corporation (PATCO) operates only one line, but a vital one: it runs underground through several stops in Center City/Historical District Philly, then goes over the Ben Franklin Bridge, crossing the Delaware River to Camden, where it goes underground again. Several stop later, though, the PATCO line emerges and stays above-ground through a great many modern suburbs to its terminus in Lindenwold, New Jersey. During rush hours the trains run as often as eight minutes apart but on weekends, as seldom as half hour apart. Our trains ran on time, more or less.
Pre-planning: PATCO mailed me a timetable upon my e-mail request to ridepatco dot org. It's just a flyer, really. If PATCO stocks route maps and sightseeing suggestions, I'm not aware of that fact. The line on the Philly side seems designed NOT to connect with SEPTA lines; there is only one place where an easy transfer can be made and, due to reconstruction, we had to go outdoors to accomplish that. There is no reciprocity of fares or fare cards with SEPTA. Nonetheless, if you want or need to cross the Delaware to get to Camden and points west, this is your only rapid-transit possibility. B-minus.
Quality of Ride: Pretty OK, except for some jolting sudden stops. The cars have a definite "heavy-rail rapid transit" feel to them; the ride is solid and is nobody's idea of an Elevated; but some bumps get through and the train sways at high speed (65 mph limit). In fact, if you added conductors and the occasional ticket clerk, PATCO would suddenly morph into commuter rail like Philly's "R" Regional lines (see above). At this time (mid-October, 2007), PATCO is just beginning to shift from a magnetic card system (red turnstiles) to a more sophisticated added-value system (stainless-steel turnstiles). Advice: bring plenty of change and some crisp one-dollar bills. The older generation of ticket machines can take a $5 bill but will return change using one-dollar coins if it can. We did our traveling all the way to the end of the line on a Sunday and if any stations were staffed, we weren't aware of it. B-minus.
Sightseeing Potential: Since the PATCO line burrows beneath the older and more historical parts of Philadelphia and Camden, what you see outside the widows are usually the rear sides of 1960/70s suburbia. C.
Overall: The stations on the Philadelphia side could be far less gritty, and in some perfect world they would be ADA-accessible. As for now, though, they're just dirty with Depression-era signage and the usual subway sewer smells, etc. But PATCO will get you where you want to go at reasonably high speed, especially if your destination is the Camden-Trenton light rail line (see below). B-/C+.
Reminds me of: a slower, dirtier version of BART.
CAMDEN, NJ TO TRENTON:
New Jersey Transit (NJT) diesel light-rail "River Line".
Pre-planning: The folks at NJT headquarters in Newark really bowled me over with their intelligently designed, useful publicity and transit materials. My first request included (without my having asked) a map of the complete NJT commuter-train system with color-coded routes on a black background; other materials offered promotions, maps and timetables for NJT's light rail lines. This route, the River Line, runs up the eastern side of the Delaware from Camden to Trenton, according to the timetable 69.7 miles. A further e-mail request for more specific timetables on some routes led to a quick first-class-mail response with everything I needed, even fares. The change from PATCO at Camden - Broadway station to NJT's light-rail is as easy as changing floors can be, but note that the Light Rail calls that station "The Walter Rand Transportation Center." (Note that the LTR doesn't originate at Broadway but several stops earlier.) I am still impressed: A-plus.
Quality of Ride: Fascinating. The LRT trainset resembles a classic "accordion" bus or tram but with a bigger middle - that's where they put the diesel-electric engines. For a weekday afternoon, the number of people riding, especially South to North Jersey, was impressive, and the passengers comprised a healthy mix of people: all races, all ages, and we all got along fine. The ride itself is fairly smooth but what really impressed me was the kick those new-generation diesel-electrics have. Only when getting up to top speed (which I would guess is about 65 - 70 mph) could we hear the diesels growling. The usual kind of whine from electric locomotion, but no diesel smell. The motorman was easily approachable and he let someone (whom he probably knew already) sit all the way up front just opposite him. Was I jealous! Since the engines are quick off the mark, and the trainset looks like LRT, nothing much reminded me it wasn't LRT. This type of design would work well in outdoor situations with stops anywhere from less than a mile apart to five or more miles apart. I feel sure that diesel-electric light rail could and should have many, many applications elsewhere, both on lines after the catenary ends and on non-electrified routes, too. If the hybrid catenary/diesel models are even more useful, IMHO that wouldn't surprise me. The ride itself was reasonably smooth with a minimum of jolt, lurch or sway. It covered its route in 67 minutes, achieving an average speed of more than 60 mph. A.
Sightseeing Potential: Not unpleasant but fairly dull. The Delaware River is only visible in a couple of flashes, and what's seen from the ROW is mostly light industry and woods, not many suburban houses to speak of. The approach into the end-of-line at Trenton passes over the NEC and gives a good view. Right now walking from the LRT terminus into the station for NJT and Amtrak is a little inconvenient because it means crossing the road. In the not-too-distant future, however, a new transportation center will open that looks HUGE and hopefully will be comprehensive. B-minus.
Overall: A-. But I'm probably understating the experience for those who want to experiment with a new mode of travel. I'm glad the ride figured into our travel plans, too, as a sensible and low-cost solution to get from Philadelphia to Trenton.
Reminds me of: Nothing I've ridden before. Or, if you prefer, a vehicle with most light-rail advantages but without catenary.
TRENTON, NEW JERSEY to NEWARK/PENN STATION
NEW JERSEY TRANSIT (NJT).
This was the result of a transfer from the Camden-Trenton light-rail "River Line" to a regular m.u., New York-bound NJT commuter train at Trenton. (Note: a more direct and probably just as cheap way to do Phila - Newark would be to take the R7 SEPTA line to Trenton, then transfer to NJT for the balance of the trip, to Newark Penn Station and on to New York/Penn Station. As an earlier post noted, the transfer is usually cross-platform.)
Pre-planning: Okay, but nobody told us we'd have to cross the street to get from the LRT terminal to the regular NJT/Amtrak Trenton station. And we had to hotfoot it! A-
Quality of Ride: Superb. This train consisted of new or almost-new bi-level coaches. They resembled gallery bi-levs on the outside (none of that "diaphragm" business that makes some commuter lines look like a string of pop-it beads), but they were true two-levels, three step down to level one, most of a staircase's worth of stairs up to level two. We rode in the lower level and while the ceiling was not high, it wasn't low enough to feel oppressive. The ride was smooth and quiet without any squeaking of springs or groaning of bulkheads, and minimum noise and jiggle going over switches. We did, however, lose about ten minutes on the trip. When the northbound Accela flashed by us, it looked as if it were going close to 100 mph or more faster than our train, which was proceeding only slowly, around 25 mph. This lowers the grade from A-plus to A.
Sightseeing: NEC blah. B-
Overall: A-/B+. But notice that the actual ride part is superior.
Reminds me of: The Metra (at the time, Illinois Central) bi-level electrics when they were brand new, ca. 1971.
NEWARK (BROAD STREET) - GLADSTONE, NJ and RETURN: NJT.
New Jersey Transit operates a heap of rail transit, even edging out Chicago's near-monopoly on commuter rail, Metra, in number of trips daily. The lines that pass through this station usually have originated in Hoboken, but not always.
Pre-planning: As mentioned above, superlative info from the NJT people. The relevant timetable is the "Morris/Essex." A+
Quality of Ride: Including the Broad Street-Newark station, not that good. It's under construction and the only way into it is the least intuitive route past wooden barricades and spray paint. Sure hope the freshening is useful! I was, however, forearmed with a timetable for the Morris and Essex branches only, It's also worth nothing that this stop is a mere way station; instead, most runs out of this station originate at Hoboken (exx-Erie Lackawanna and the electric "Edison Cars"). BTW that's where you can pick up PATH to Manhattan.
Ride quality of the m.u.'s was surprisingly solid and steady, with 2+3 seating. These are single-level m.u.'s probably 20-to-25 years old, produced by Bombardier with electric overhaul by ABB (I think). The ride was serene at all speeds, few jounces, fewer jolts. A-, but without the nasty surprise of Broad Street, it would have been A.
Sightseeing Potential: The trip itself is pleasant, especially those who want a good look at the trees. I expect they will be at their peak toward late October. The route takes it through several posh "name-brand" Jersey suburbs (Short Hills, for instance), and shortly past Summit the route splits in two, our less-traveled one going to single-track with wooden(!) catenary support poles. Gladstone is probably sixty or more rail miles from the Empire State Building. Even here, though, there was a parking lot with commuters' cars in it. A-
Overall: Despite some major aggravation at Newark Broad Street station finding a ticket machine and the correct platform, a pleasant trip; but not a quick one at more than an hour. Yet I can witness to the fact that the trainsets have toilets! A-minus.
Reminds me of: A walk in the woods.
NEWARK (PENNA. STATION) - PENN STATION NYC - NEWARK: NJT.
We enjoyed the quality of cars and service on the Northeastern Corridor (NEC) route from Newark into Manhattan and return.
Pre-Planning: None necessary, really. Just buy a ticket and go -- there'll be a train along in twenty minutes or so. Be aware, though, that discount round-trip fares are not in effect during peak periods (rush hours). For more information, contact NJT at njtransit dot com for a "Northeast Corridor" timetable.
Quality of Ride: Penn Station - Newark has a very sophisticated feel to it, with sales kiosks between track platforms and an enormous and beautiful great hall at the front of the building. On board, the cars were of a type we had learned to recognize as plentiful on NJT: single-level m.u.'s from the 1980s, probably overhauled at one time (one maker plaque mentioned ABB). Comfortable and wide, easily accommodating 3 + 2 seating. Our trips ran on time, both going into Manhattan and coming out back to Newark. There was some swaying going into and out of the tunnel to Manhattan, and a bit of lurching enroute.
Especially on the return trip, our conductor had his work cut out for him. The train was a 7:32 p.m. semi-express leaving Penn Station soon after the peak period for fares had elapsed, and it was fairly crowded (most seats full except the center of the triple seat). Our conductor took charge in a flurry of ticket-selling and -punching; quite a feat since this was not the nine-to-five commuter crowd with their monthly passes. He also helped people find seats. I've rarely seen a conductor so busy and so efficient. All told, A-minus.
Sightseeing: It wasn't really a sightseeing excursion, but the tallest buildings in Manhattan looked great in the early-afternoon sun and after dark. Then came the tunnel. B.
Overall: Solid B-plus.
NEWARK - PENN STATIION TO PHILADELPHIA - 30th STREET STATION - AMTRAK.
Pre-planning: I had a full printed Amtrak timetable to work with. Before we left town, my partner had communed with "Julie," the Amtrak telephone android in charge of reservations. (Every seat on every Amtrak that runs in the NEC requires a reservation.) Then we moved our reservations to an earlier departure time and Julie performed quite well again. When it came time to pick up the actual tickets, a ticket vendor at the Amtrak part of Newark-Penn was cheerful, friendly and efficient. A.
Quality of Ride: For this we paid sixty dollars apiece? The Amtrak signboard in the arrivals hall at Newark-Penn went straight from "Late" to "All Aboard" without "Boarding" in between, and the train still wasn't in the station. I hate to get jerked around that way. The coach itself was borderline-nasty: a stuffy Amfleet I with poor ventilation and non-functioning footrests. There was a pervasive odor of something (Air freshener? Pomade?). The ride was fairly sleek except for some curves. We made up five minutes of our twelve minutes' lateness enroute to Philly. Still, mediocre tending to unacceptable. C-minus.
Sightseeing: If you know the NEC, you know it's nothing spectacular. B-minus.
Overall: Deep B-minus. There's a reason I don't ride Amtrak every chance I get. We should have gone with NJT Newark to Trenton and transferred to SEPTA for the Trenton to Philly leg. Much cheaper, more human-friendly coaches, and not much extra hassle to speak of.
Reminds me of: A VIA corridor trip with years of apathy piled on.
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Despite my criticisms, there were no major delays, no cancelled trains, no negligent employees and no unacceptable passenger cars. Very satisfactory overall, but IMHO Amtrak needs to work a little harder on keeping the cars' interiors fresh and attractive. a. s.
Realy nicely done report! Have you ever ridden the Acela? Nicest ride I've ever taken. Rode it 4 trips NYC to Baltimore. Nice, Nice Nice.
Joe
Really nice trip report!
Was your Amfleet coach in original condition or a Capstone overhaul. The Capstones have upgraded interior surfaces. I can imagine any originals could be a bit dingy by now - they are 30 years old!
Amtrak does their best to discourage Phila-NYP passengers since that tends to be the "bottleneck" on the route. Amtrak has to move the seat all the way from WAS to NYP or Boston and can't afford to have it only occupied from Phila to NYP at a cheap rate.
The PRR used to add/drop a couple P70s on the rear at Phila. I've often wondered why Amtrak doesn't try the same thing. Also wonder why Amtrak doesn't try single seat NEC to Empire Corridor rides. The Harrisburg trains could run thru to Albany, no? (with an engine change at Penn)
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Al,
Thanks -- great report.
Having grown up on the Route 102 Sharon Hill trolley line (it ends at dead end with no loop like the Route 101), I just wanted to add a couple of points....
Media, PA (at the end of the Route 101 trolley) is the County Seat of Delaware County. This made it an important cultural and market center for Delaware county when the line was originally built. The court house is a couple blocks to the North of the end of the line. The Pennsylvania RR also operated a line thru Media (whose station is a couple blocks South of the trolley terminus). The ex-PRR line is currently called the R3 - Media/Elwyn line and provides a much faster, one seat (no change) ride to center city. The suburbs between Media and Upper Darby (where the Market Frankford El and Norristown lines meet) were largely populated due to the presence of the trolley line itself (the line created the demand for suburban housing -- a good way for the line's builders to make extra money in real estate)
Suburban Station in Philadelphia got its name when the Pennsylvania RR still operated Broad Street Station, but wanted to reduce congestion and moved the commuter trains (ie. Suburban routes) out of Broad Street Station. Broad Street was used for intercity traffic only, and was replaced by 30th Street entirely after the second great fire which doomed Broad Street to being demolished and the land sold for real estate development.
Regarding the Route 100 Norristown High Speed line....the former equipment is more properly referred to as "bullets" or "bullet cars" rather than "brilliners". JG Brill company (based in Philly until its end) built the bullets --- highly streamlined and tested in wind tunnels, and they also built and marketed "brilliners" as their proprietary alternative to the patented PCC design. The Brilliners were not high speed runners, but designed to navigate city streets. Interestingly, Philadelphia, as hometown to JG Brill only bought two brilliners and rarely used them due to excessive overhang and tight clearances.
Regarding the R6 to Norristown....this is ex-Reading Railroad trackage that ultimately continues up the river valley to Valley Forge (of George Washington fame, and Boy Scout Jamborees, etc.) and then to Reading, PA. There has been planning to restore service to Reading, PA, but the funding has not materialized as initially hoped.
Paul F.
oltmannd wrote: The PRR used to add/drop a couple P70s on the rear at Phila. I've often wondered why Amtrak doesn't try the same thing. Also wonder why Amtrak doesn't try single seat NEC to Empire Corridor rides. The Harrisburg trains could run thru to Albany, no? (with an engine change at Penn)
Interesting idea, would require reversing ends in NY Penn Station to access the west side line, but with catenary available from Harrisburg to NYP, they could just tack a dual mode beast on the rear, release the AEM-7 and take off.
What make that proposal even more interesting would be to shift the origin of the route to the Philadelphia International airport and run thru to Albany. It might provide flight connection options for folks who find EWR too expensive and too limited service out of Stewart Airport in Newburg, NY.
paulsafety wrote: Al,Thanks -- great report.Having grown up on the Route 102 Sharon Hill trolley line (it ends at dead end with no loop like the Route 101), I just wanted to add a couple of points....Media, PA (at the end of the Route 101 trolley) is the County Seat of Delaware County. This made it an important cultural and market center for Delaware county when the line was originally built. The court house is a couple blocks to the North of the end of the line. The Pennsylvania RR also operated a line thru Media (whose station is a couple blocks South of the trolley terminus). The ex-PRR line is currently called the R3 - Media/Elwyn line and provides a much faster, one seat (no change) ride to center city. The suburbs between Media and Upper Darby (where the Market Frankford El and Norristown lines meet) were largely populated due to the presence of the trolley line itself (the line created the demand for suburban housing -- a good way for the line's builders to make extra money in real estate)Suburban Station in Philadelphia got its name when the Pennsylvania RR still operated Broad Street Station, but wanted to reduce congestion and moved the commuter trains (ie. Suburban routes) out of Broad Street Station. Broad Street was used for intercity traffic only, and was replaced by 30th Street entirely after the second great fire which doomed Broad Street to being demolished and the land sold for real estate development.Regarding the Route 100 Norristown High Speed line....the former equipment is more properly referred to as "bullets" or "bullet cars" rather than "brilliners". JG Brill company (based in Philly until its end) built the bullets --- highly streamlined and tested in wind tunnels, and they also built and marketed "brilliners" as their proprietary alternative to the patented PCC design. The Brilliners were not high speed runners, but designed to navigate city streets. Interestingly, Philadelphia, as hometown to JG Brill only bought two brilliners and rarely used them due to excessive overhang and tight clearances.Regarding the R6 to Norristown....this is ex-Reading Railroad trackage that ultimately continues up the river valley to Valley Forge (of George Washington fame, and Boy Scout Jamborees, etc.) and then to Reading, PA. There has been planning to restore service to Reading, PA, but the funding has not materialized as initially hoped.Paul F.
Paul, thank you for the additional info! The R6 (exx-Reading) was especially novel to me, with those huge catenary towers. - a. s.
daveklepper wrote:Correction on the history of Broad Street Station, the station for through trains. The fire affecting primarily the arched trainshed and not the building. I believe the arched trainshed was replaced by butterfly platform cannopies, and the station continued in operation. I know for a fact that the station was completely rebuilt, and indeed, service was restored immediately after the fire was put out on the remaining servicable tracks. The station served all steam-powered trains, and at the time only electrically hauled trains were allowed on the lower level of 30th Street. The last train out of Broad Street was a Philaelphia Orchestra special train, and they had a short concert in the station before departure, and some brass players took up a position on the open observation car platform to play something (tattoo, I think) as the train left. The next day some people were suprised to Reading Pacific-type steam locomotives on the lower level of 30th Street on the specific Pennsylvania-Reading-Seashore trains that operated out of 30th Street. (Seashore lines did not own its own steam locomotives and its roster was split between the Pennsy and Reading. At the time most trains ran to the Camden ferry terminal, but some ran through Frankfort Junction to Broad Street, or then to 30th Street, and I don't remember any running to Reading Terminal. Seashore Lines did not segregate its rented locomotives as which ran on Pennsy tracks and which did not.)
Sorry for the apparent confusion -- I didn't specify that both the first fire (1923) and the second (1943) were focused on the wooden platform planks and baggage areas under the tracks. Indeed, the headhouse was not damaged, and the non-combustible iron/steel and glass trainshed was warped/distressed from the heat and replaced with individual canopies over each distinct platform. The station facilities (not the head house, which was not structurally damaged) were rebuilt following both fires, but I specifically stated that the second fire ultimately doomed the property (it lasted only ten more years after the second fire).
Its my understanding that arriving PRSL steam powered trains would discharge passengers on any inbound, upper level track and then back to the yard for service. The train would be backed into the extreme Northern end of the lower level so that the steamer would remain outside until departure time. In actual practice, however, there may have been exceptions, changes to that plan.
Also, I'm not aware of any "direct route" connection between the NEC and Reading Terminal in Philly (without unusual movements - extensive backing, etc.) -- plus the PRSL was 2/3rds controlled by PRR and only 1/3rd by RDG. Maybe that would have been a factor as well (idle speculation).
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:I'm a bit surprised that you missed any of NJ Transit's diesel-powered lines out of Hoboken. Any ride on the Port Jervis line includes a terrific view of the Manhattan skyline after leaving Passaic on inbound runs when the train crosses the Jersey Meadows.
Live and learn! I hope we can use your suggestion at a later date. The one excursion we planned but missed due to overall fatigue was Penn Station - Syosset via the LIRR. Believe the train has a diesel engine, or gets one at Hicksville. - a. s.
More on Broad Street. As far as I recall, the closure of Broad Street was not related to the fire in any way, just to the opportunity to improve traffic and the whole city area by removing the "Chinese Wall" that was the embankment PRR approach to Broad Street. This could not be done during WWII because of heavy rail passenger traffic. Broad Street terminated the Clockers then running every hour to New York, about eight daily Pittsburgh trains (at least one each way with through sleepers to Chicago), and steam trains to places like Williamsport and other Pennsylvania branches terminals. Some secondary Chicago and St. Louis trains from NY did make a reverse move into Broad Street. You are correct about how PRSL trains were handled, and indeed the Reading Pacifics I observed were always on the north end of the 30th Street lower level tracks. And you are correct about the lack of direct connecting tracks from the PRSL to Reading Terminal. But one strange thing if memory is correct, is that there was a daily Harrisburg departure from Reading Terminal that had a through sleeper to Chicago - via the PRR from Harrisburg! (The two stations in Harrisburg were reasonably close, if I rermember correctly.)
The brass players on the observation car platform of the Philadelphia Orchestra special that was the last departure from Broad Street played the tune of "Auld Lang Zyne"
Should old acquaintance be forgot, and never brought to mind? Then drink a cup of kindness dear, for the days of Auld Lang Zyne."
The event was covered by a national radio broadcast.
daveklepper wrote: And you are correct about the lack of direct connecting tracks from the PRSL to Reading Terminal. But one strange thing if memory is correct, is that there was a daily Harrisburg departure from Reading Terminal that had a through sleeper to Chicago - via the PRR from Harrisburg! (The two stations in Harrisburg were reasonably close, if I rermember correctly.)
And you are correct about the lack of direct connecting tracks from the PRSL to Reading Terminal. But one strange thing if memory is correct, is that there was a daily Harrisburg departure from Reading Terminal that had a through sleeper to Chicago - via the PRR from Harrisburg! (The two stations in Harrisburg were reasonably close, if I rermember correctly.)
The through sleeper probably traveled to Harrisburg via Reading, PA. The two stations in Harrisburg were immediately adjacent to each other and had a direct connecting track between them. The sleeper could have been pulled off of the rear of the train by a switcher and immediatly transfered to the PRR for forwarding to Chicago. http://kc.pennsyrr.com/maps/images/rdg_hbg_1934.jpg
Reading had other sleeper run through operations via connecting railroads, too.
al-in-chgo wrote:CAMDEN, NJ TO TRENTON: New Jersey Transit (NJT) diesel light-rail "River Line". Pre-planning: The folks at NJT headquarters in Newark really bowled me over with their intelligently designed, useful publicity and transit materials. My first request included (without my having asked) a map of the complete NJT commuter-train system with color-coded routes on a black background; other materials offered promotions, maps and timetables for NJT's light rail lines. This route, the River Line, runs up the eastern side of the Delaware from Camden to Trenton, according to the timetable 69.7 miles. A further e-mail request for more specific timetables on some routes led to a quick first-class-mail response with everything I needed, even fares. The change from PATCO at Camden - Broadway station to NJT's light-rail is as easy as changing floors can be, but note that the Light Rail calls that station "The Walter Rand Transportation Center." (Note that the LTR doesn't originate at Broadway but several stops earlier.) I am still impressed: A-plus. Quality of Ride: Fascinating. The LRT trainset resembles a classic "accordion" bus or tram but with a bigger middle - that's where they put the diesel-electric engines. For a weekday afternoon, the number of people riding, especially South to North Jersey, was impressive, and the passengers comprised a healthy mix of people: all races, all ages, and we all got along fine. The ride itself is fairly smooth but what really impressed me was the kick those new-generation diesel-electrics have. Only when getting up to top speed (which I would guess is about 65 - 70 mph) could we hear the diesels growling. The usual kind of whine from electric locomotion, but no diesel smell. The motorman was easily approachable and he let someone (whom he probably knew already) sit all the way up front just opposite him. Was I jealous! Since the engines are quick off the mark, and the trainset looks like LRT, nothing much reminded me it wasn't LRT. This type of design would work well in outdoor situations with stops anywhere from less than a mile apart to five or more miles apart. I feel sure that diesel-electric light rail could and should have many, many applications elsewhere, both on lines after the catenary ends and on non-electrified routes, too. If the hybrid catenary/diesel models are even more useful, IMHO that wouldn't surprise me. The ride itself was reasonably smooth with a minimum of jolt, lurch or sway. It covered its route in 67 minutes, achieving an average speed of more than 60 mph. A.
al-in-chgo wrote:This was the result of a transfer from the Camden-Trenton light-rail "River Line" to a regular m.u., New York-bound NJT commuter train at Trenton. (Note: a more direct and probably just as cheap way to do Phila - Newark would be to take the R7 SEPTA line to Trenton, then transfer to NJT for the balance of the trip, to Newark Penn Station and on to New York/Penn Station. As an earlier post noted, the transfer is usually cross-platform.) Pre-planning: Okay, but nobody told us we'd have to cross the street to get from the LRT terminal to the regular NJT/Amtrak Trenton station. And we had to hotfoot it!
oltmannd wrote:The PRR used to add/drop a couple P70s on the rear at Phila. I've often wondered why Amtrak doesn't try the same thing
oltmannd wrote:Also wonder why Amtrak doesn't try single seat NEC to Empire Corridor rides. The Harrisburg trains could run thru to Albany, no? (with an engine change at Penn)
paulsafety wrote:Regarding the Route 100 Norristown High Speed line....the former equipment is more properly referred to as "bullets" or "bullet cars" rather than "brilliners"
JT22CW wrote: paulsafety wrote:Regarding the Route 100 Norristown High Speed line....the former equipment is more properly referred to as "bullets" or "bullet cars" rather than "brilliners"Brill Bullets and Brilliners are two different beasts altogether. The former was specifically for the P&W, IINM. The latter was a streetcar designed to compete with the PCC design. PTC, of course, ran double-ended Brilliners from 69th Street Terminal on its lines to West Chester, Media and Sharon Hill. (Since you indicate that you are a native of the area, you'd certainly know the details better than I would, sir.)
I also stated, (immediately following the truncated quote)
"JG Brill company (based in Philly until its end) built the bullets --- highly streamlined and tested in wind tunnels, and they also built and marketed "brilliners" as their proprietary alternative to the patented PCC design. The Brilliners were not high speed runners, but designed to navigate city streets."
Unfortunately, my words were not clear or precise enough to distinguish that I understand that the two models were completely different designs.
PTC = Philadelphia Transit Company which never owned ANY double ended brilliners. Philadelphia Suburban Transit Company (a stock/shareholder company that was disctinct from PTC and remained so until SEPTAs assumption of both properties) did operate double ended brilliners.
JT22CW wrote: Bah; was a typo. Should have just said "Red Arrow". The 103 should still be a trolley line to this day, too...As for Newark Broad (former DL&W), that station's undergoing a major reconfiguration, into one that the Lackawanna should have built to begin with—with at least one island platform so that all three tracks can have a platform adjacent. The high platforms are also new.Here's a view of Broad Street that could be from the 80s: **********************************************************From:"SEPTA TIC" <septatic@septa.org> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert To:"'allen smalling'" <smalling_60626@yahoo.com>Subject:RE: Route 103 Date:Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:05:25 -0400Reply: SEPTA does operate the Route 103 bus route. Sincerely, Sheryl Carter SEPTA Customer Service From: allen smalling [mailto:smalling_60626@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 6:48 PMTo: septaticSubject: Re: Route 103 Chicago, October 20, 2007 Dear SEPTA, Does SEPTA operate a route no. 103? And if so, is it bus or trolley? Thanks for any reply, /s/ Allen Smalling
Bah; was a typo. Should have just said "Red Arrow". The 103 should still be a trolley line to this day, too...
As for Newark Broad (former DL&W), that station's undergoing a major reconfiguration, into one that the Lackawanna should have built to begin with—with at least one island platform so that all three tracks can have a platform adjacent. The high platforms are also new.
Here's a view of Broad Street that could be from the 80s:
**********************************************************
From: allen smalling [mailto:smalling_60626@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 6:48 PMTo: septaticSubject: Re: Route 103 Chicago, October 20, 2007 Dear SEPTA, Does SEPTA operate a route no. 103? And if so, is it bus or trolley? Thanks for any reply, /s/ Allen Smalling
The Red Arrow 103 was indeed a trolley during the time Brilliners ran the route; the mention of Brilliners on this thread brought it to my mind. The route had a dedicated ROW for the trolleys, which was decimated (most likely needlessly) with the widening of West Chester Pike. This low-resolution pic shows a Brilliner on the 103 route circa 1954.
P70s vs Amfleet.
The trade-off is HEP jumpers vs. a steam connection. The steam connection is needed year-round for reheat in the HVAC system. The steam connections are cranky things. I think I'd rather deal with HEP jumpers.
Empire svc riding backwards.
The train would change direction in Penn, so Empire passengers would be riding forward. But, there is a precedent for rear facing seating on Empire service. The Turboliners used to have 50/50 forward/rear facing seating (as the Keystone trains SHOULD have - if they don't already...) and these trains used to go all the way to Buffalo like that.
Empire serice consist is typically 4 or 5 Amfleet and a P32. A Keystone train is typically 5 coaches and and AEM7. What crew agreement issues would be involved? Maybe an arbitrary for the engine swap at Penn?
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:Philadelphia-New York and New York-Albany are probably in two separate seniority districts so any through Philadelphia-Albany train would require a crew change at Penn Station or Amtrak would have to negotiate agreements with the Brotherhoods for through crews from each district to provide an equitable division of the workload. Agreements of this nature were drawn to provide for through crews on Chicago-Decatur and Chicago-Peoria Amtrak runs in the late 1980's.
That makes sense.
I wouldn't think you'd want to tackle a run-thru crew, just the equipment - mate the Keystone schedules with the Empire schedules - at least the more reliable Albany schedules. Let the crews cycle on their exiting pools.
ndbprr wrote:Anybody know the actual age of the Brill Bullets
The bullets were built in 1931. Most were withdrawn from service around 1990 and many were preserved at museums. Those that survive would be 76 yrs. old this year. Here are some links to additional info on the line and the bullets:
http://www.phillytrolley.org/philwest.html
http://www.rockhilltrolley.org/roster/205.htm
http://world.nycsubway.org/us/phila/norristown.html
http://www.philadelphiatransitvehicles.info/interurban.php
I don't have anything with Amtrak charging top dollar to NYP-Philly passengers on the basis of charging what the customers are willing to pay. But the suggestion that this is the bottleneck on the route, that it is running at capacity, and needs to be rationed seems odd to me. This is at least a two-track, in some places a four-track electrified and ATS'd route with strict controls over any freight traffic.
NARP used to talk about each track having the passenger capacity of 20 lanes of freeway. Is NY-Philly carrying anywhere near 40 freeway lanes worth of train passengers? At peak times during commuter rush?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
paulsafety wrote: The bullets were built in 1931. Most were withdrawn from service around 1990 and many were preserved at museums.
The bullets were built in 1931. Most were withdrawn from service around 1990 and many were preserved at museums.
I spotted a Bullet (painted in SEPTA's early '80s paint scheme) at (rather, outside in the yard of) the Electric City Trolley Museum (next to Steamtown) in Scranton when visiting both in 2003. Couldn't board it, though.
motor
motor wrote:I spotted a Bullet (painted in SEPTA's early '80s paint scheme) at (rather, outside in the yard of) the Electric City Trolley Museum (next to Steamtown) in Scranton when visiting both in 2003. Couldn't board it, though.motor
Might this be the one?
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/septa206.jpg
Paul Milenkovic wrote: Amtrak does their best to discourage Phila-NYP passengers since that tends to be the "bottleneck" on the route. Amtrak has to move the seat all the way from WAS to NYP or Boston and can't afford to have it only occupied from Phila to NYP at a cheap rate. I don't have anything with Amtrak charging top dollar to NYP-Philly passengers on the basis of charging what the customers are willing to pay. But the suggestion that this is the bottleneck on the route, that it is running at capacity, and needs to be rationed seems odd to me. This is at least a two-track, in some places a four-track electrified and ATS'd route with strict controls over any freight traffic. NARP used to talk about each track having the passenger capacity of 20 lanes of freeway. Is NY-Philly carrying anywhere near 40 freeway lanes worth of train passengers? At peak times during commuter rush?
If you plug in some typical numbers, here's what you get.
If Block length = 2 miles.
Then typical separatation between trains with 3 aspect signalling- everybody running at track speed = 4 miles
Which give you 15 trains an hour at 60 mph.
A highway lane can carry about 1900 vehiles per hour.
So, 20 lanes would get you 38,000 per hour.
Dividing 38,000/15 = 2,500 passengers per train.
In Amfleet terms, that's 30+ car trains.
However, the Newark to NYP section is capable of 25 trains an hour or so, each way (shorter blocks, more aspects, higher avg speeds)
If each train was 8 cars at 125 per car (assumes some are NJT and some are Amtrak), then you get 25x8x125 = 25,000, about 13 lanes worth of vehicles. But that thins out past the jct with the Lackawanna, then some more at Rahway, then some more at Jersey Ave and a bit more at Trenton.
I think I did the numbers on Amtrak NYP to Phila once, and it was worth about a lane each way at peak times.
I gather you are looking at Amtrak trains only when you say a lane each way. It may thin out a bit a Jersey Avenue, but it does not really thin out at Trenton, because there the loss of NJT trrains is made up by the addition of SEPTA trains. And we are talking about capacity, so the fact that SEPTA trains today are generally shorter should not count.
But if Amtrak actually has three passenger trains NY to Phila during the peak hour, again not counting NJT or SEPTA. and I believe the timetable shows during the evening rush hour one Acela, one Regional Express to Washington, and one Harrisburg train, assume twelve 60-seat coaches (remember we are talking about capacity) on each train (and you can couple two Acela sets together to approximate this) 21,600 total Amtrak on their three trains only. So, you aren't far off.
Again, if Phily-NY is the bottleneck, and NJT's plan for its own 2-track Hudosn River tunnel goes through to completion, then added capacity can be obtained by electrifying Aldene-West Trenton and upgrading the old CNJ-Reading route. And it won't cost a billion either.
What speed is your 1,950 highway lane capacity figured at? At Ballsbaugh's class at MIT we learned that maximum highway capacity on one lane is at about 22 mph! As you go faster, the distance between cars (in practice, which may actually be less than the best safe distance) goes up something like the square of the relative speed, rather than linearly.
Ballsbaugh's figure for 45 mph was something like 1,000 per hour and I believe this is the figure that should be used for comparison, giving Amtrak the equal of two lanes each way. Unless you believe braking distance has improved remarkably in the last half century. Has it?
Now if you add NJT and SEPTA connecting service (which at times in the past was provided with jointly-operated Silverliner and Jersey Arrow cars running through), this would at least double to four lanes, possibly up to five with the greater capacity of the commuter cars.
oltmannd wrote: The train would change direction in Penn, so Empire passengers would be riding forward. But, there is a precedent for rear facing seating on Empire service. The Turboliners used to have 50/50 forward/rear facing seating (as the Keystone trains SHOULD have - if they don't already...) and these trains used to go all the way to Buffalo like that.
and the Adirondack used to go NY GCT all the way to Montreal with 50/50 forward/rear facing Turboliner seating, as did the Turboliners out of Chicago, and the Turboliners in Europe. After all Amtrak's turboliners were just copies of European equipment, or even straight European imports.
Of course let's not get stuck thinking just because we used to do it then, or just because everyone else does it, makes it right. There is probably some travel decision based on aversion to facing backwards, and there are probably some people who don't care. Notice that commercial airlines have forward facing seats, but military planes have backward facing seats, which are much safer in a collision.
Patrick Boylan
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