difference between a F45 & FP45

[snagletooth]

Umh, CMSTP, you've got it wrong, the MLWK FP45's steam heated and were srapped, the Metra units were F40C'S and owned by RTA/Metra, SD40-2's under cowl bodies with HEP! Completely different different units. just look at the trucks, the side panels, ect. I'm not belittling, just trying to elighten.

[kenneo]

Amtrak SDP40F and the MILW F40C were pretty similar.  Basically a SD40-2 with a cowl carbody.

The Amtrak jobs had Steam generators in the back, with the water tanks mounted up high.  They were designed to have the steam gens removed and replaced with HEP units when enough cars got switched over.  But all that water up high, when running on marginal track at passenger speeds, caused some problems.  Surf's up!  What probably happened was the water sloshed around enough to pop the engines off the track.  ATSF never had any problems, and took some from Amtrak in exchange for some smaller switcher type power.  Most of the rest were "recycled" into F40PHs.

The F40C had HEP.  No problems, even on the MILW trackage. 

The basic problem was the location of the water tank for the steam-generator, but the trucks were "-1" trucks without the dampening strut, and they had a bit of extra "flex".  The trucks did not make much of a difference without the high mounted water tanks, but EMD did re-design the truck for the "-2" series.

SP's 10 SDP-45's had a regular freight road-switcher body and the water tanks were next to the fuel tanks.  SP had no stability problems with them that I ever heard of.  With the demise of railroad operated passenger service into AMTK, SP re-assigned these units to the Peninsula Commute Service, along with a couple of GP-9 rebuilds designed specificaly for the Commute Service and 3 GP-40's purpose built by EMD with steam-generators for the Commute Service.  All of these engines had the water tanks co-located with the fuel tanks.

[WSOR 3801]

Amtrak SDP40F and the MILW F40C were pretty similar.  Basically a SD40-2 with a cowl carbody.

The Amtrak jobs had Steam generators in the back, with the water tanks mounted up high.  They were designed to have the steam gens removed and replaced with HEP units when enough cars got switched over.  But all that water up high, when running on marginal track at passenger speeds, caused some problems.  Surf's up!  What probably happened was the water sloshed around enough to pop the engines off the track.  ATSF never had any problems, and took some from Amtrak in exchange for some smaller switcher type power.  Most of the rest were "recycled" into F40PHs.

The F40C had HEP.  No problems, even on the MILW trackage. 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I'll step into Dale's role to try to straighten a few things out:

FP45 (14 built)

•   ATSF  100-108    (9)    later renumbered ATSF 5940-5948
•   MILW  1-5          (5)    

F45  (86 built)

•    GN      427-440      (14)   renumbered BN 6600-6613
•    BN      6614-6625   (12)   ordered as GN 441-452
•    BN      6626-6645   (20)
•    ATSF  1900-1919   (20)  renumbered ATSF 5900-5919
•    ATSF  1920-1939   (20)  renumbered ATSF 5920-5939, equipped with steam & signal lines

SDP45 (52 built)

•   GN   326-333       (8)   later renumbered BN 9856-9863 then BN 6592-6599
•   EL   3635-3668   (34)   No S/G, renumbered CR 6667-6699 except for 3637
•   SP   3200-3209   (10)

EL 3637 was rebuilt to a road slug by N&W

[SSW9389]

Bob no FP45s on Great Northern, only F45s.

Amtrak's new diesel in 1973 was the SDP40F, a cowl bodied 16 cylinder unit with 3000 horsepower. Yes they were very similar to an FP45, but not as powerful.

Santa Fe had 20 F45s that were delivered with steam lines for passenger service in 1968. They often ran as "booster" units behind an FP45. The units were #1920-1939 as delivered and #5920-5939 as renumbered in the 1970 renumbering.  

 

 

 

Santa Fe, the Great Northern, and The Milwaukee Road all had FP45s.  But wasn't Amtrak's first purchase of new power SDP45 cowl units?  The FP45s on the Santa Fe worked well both in high speed passenger and freight service, but the nearly identical Amtrak units kept derailing at an unacceptable rate.  I recall reading in Trains Magazine where several host railroads banned the Amtrak SDP45 cowl units as well.

Going back to 1971, I recall seeing some of the Santa Fe F45s painted in the blue-and-yellow freight colors being equipped with pass-through pipes for steam.  These weren't FP45s that had their steam generators removed, but were genuine F45s.  I don't think any other F45s in North American service were so equipped. 

[Bob-Fryml]

Santa Fe, the Great Northern, and The Milwaukee Road all had FP45s.  But wasn't Amtrak's first purchase of new power SDP45 cowl units?  The FP45s on the Santa Fe worked well both in high speed passenger and freight service, but the nearly identical Amtrak units kept derailing at an unacceptable rate.  I recall reading in Trains Magazine where several host railroads banned the Amtrak SDP45 cowl units as well.

Going back to 1971, I recall seeing some of the Santa Fe F45s painted in the blue-and-yellow freight colors being equipped with pass-through pipes for steam.  These weren't FP45s that had their steam generators removed, but were genuine F45s.  I don't think any other F45s in North American service were so equipped. 

[nanaimo73]

The posts on the Milwaukee Road Yahoo Group this past week seem to concur the FP45s did not ride well.-

"Engine crews hated them. They bottomed out on rough track and rocked beyond
belief. If the engine crew had a choice, they were never used as the lead."

[JT22CW]

How did the FP45 rate next to the SDP40F and F40C in terms of tracking at high speeds?  If they were superior, it's a wonder in that case that a HEP version was never brought out (FP45H?)

[loadmaster747]

Santa Fe 92 is also preserved in red and silver Warbonnet paint at the Illinois Railway Museum in Union, Ilinois.  You can see a photo at www.irm.org - click on "roster of equipment", click on the arrow next to "horse cars" (above the button marked "browse the collection") to get the drop-down list, select "internal combustion locomotives", then click the "browse" button.  Anything with a photo icon next to the name has a photo available for viewing.  SF 92 is the second name on the list.  Alternatively, you can use the "search" button on the IRM home page, type in "Santa Fe 92", and read some articles about Santa Fe Warbonnets and SF92 in particular, as well as access the roster photo.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

If you noticed MLWK ordered them without dynamics. Strange to buy such a powerfull locomotive and doom it to midwest service. They had smaller tanks, 2500 GLS, I believe.

I guess they were purchased for the UP pool to Omaha, and painted in UP colors. The Hiawatha was only running to Aberdeen, SD, when they were bought, and that stopped April 1969.

That would be logical, Thx. I'm thinking I should have known that! Why else would they have painted them yellow? They all went to scrap, didn't they?

MILW began painting ALL of its passenger power and rolling stock in Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Gray shortly after 1955, when they took over operation of the Chicago-Omaha leg of UP's through passenger trains from C&NW.  Even the Olympian Hiawatha, which was discontinued in 1961 as a Chicago-Seattle train, finished out its days in UP colors.

[SSW9389]

Yes, the #97 is in Red Warbonnet colors with red Santa Fe lettering on the sides.  

[snagletooth]

 Snagle: Here is a link to a site that has the Santa Fe/BNSF disposition information to the museums http://home.earthlink.net/~sebringdesign/SDFP-45.htm The WC's unit has gone to Larry's Truck and Equipment and I have read it was scrapped. The other six are doing fine. I've personally seen the #97 in Dallas.

Ed

 

[quote user="snagletooth

Tnx, I bookmarked it. SDFP45? Anyway, Thank you, great site. Is #97 still in silver?

[SSW9389]

 Snagle: Here is a link to a site that has the Santa Fe/BNSF disposition information to the museums http://home.earthlink.net/~sebringdesign/SDFP-45.htm The WC's unit has gone to Larry's Truck and Equipment and I have read it was scrapped. The other six are doing fine. I've personally seen the #97 in Dallas.

Ed

 

[quote user="snagletooth

[snagletooth]

Dale: AT&SF=Six preserved, two wrecked and scrapped (both on AT&SF) and one scrapped (WC's unit by LTEX).

Whoops. Thanks Ed, I should have checked first.

No big deal. You never said, "I know for a FACT!" I'd like to hear where the 6 where preserved, though. Just so sad the MLWK's are gone, being so unique.

[nanaimo73]

Dale: AT&SF=Six preserved, two wrecked and scrapped (both on AT&SF) and one scrapped (WC's unit by LTEX).

Whoops. Thanks Ed, I should have checked first.

[SSW9389]

Dale: AT&SF=Six preserved, two wrecked and scrapped (both on AT&SF) and one scrapped (WC's unit by LTEX).

Ed 

 

All 5 were gone by 1984, 1 & 5 to Chrome, and 2, 3 & 4 to Miller Compressing. Of the ATSF 9, I believe 8 are preserved !

[nanaimo73]

All 5 were gone by 1984, 1 & 5 to Chrome, and 2, 3 & 4 to Miller Compressing. Of the ATSF 9, I believe 8 are preserved !

[snagletooth]

If you noticed MLWK ordered them without dynamics. Strange to buy such a powerfull locomotive and doom it to midwest service. They had smaller tanks, 2500 GLS, I believe.

I guess they were purchased for the UP pool to Omaha, and painted in UP colors. The Hiawatha was only running to Aberdeen, SD, when they were bought, and that stopped April 1969.

That would be logical, Thx. I'm thinking I should have known that! Why else would they have painted them yellow? They all went to scrap, didn't they?

[nanaimo73]

If you noticed MLWK ordered them without dynamics. Strange to buy such a powerfull locomotive and doom it to midwest service. They had smaller tanks, 2500 GLS, I believe.

I guess they were purchased for the UP pool to Omaha, and painted in UP colors. The Hiawatha was only running to Aberdeen, SD, when they were bought, and that stopped April 1969.

[snagletooth]

Those F40C's are pretty similar. The only way to tell them apart is the HTC trucks, well, and the RTA/Metra paint. They're the only ones who bought them. Internally their SD40-2's, not SD45's.

When MLWK removed the steam generators on their FP's, they still remained FP45's. The EL SDP45's were built without generator's (thy just wanted the large fuel tank) and were still consider SDP's. If you noticed MLWK ordered them without dynamics. Strange to buy such a powerfull locomotive and doom it to midwest service. They had smaller tanks, 2500 GLS, I believe.

[CMSTPP]

But I believe all were transferred to freight service and there steam generators removed making them F45s. Wouldn't that be correct.

So those are F40s...... those are hard to tell apart. and there is no discription from where I got those pics from so I thought they were FP45s. But I got an explanation from a friend so I see the front pilot doesn't have any steps. Interesting, thanks for catching my mistake.

James

[nanaimo73]

Hi James,

The CMSP&P only had 5 FP45, and they did not have any F45's.

The Metra owned locomotives were the 15 F40C, and were used on the two CMSP&P routes.

[CMSTPP]

The Milwaukee road still owner quite a few of the FP and F45s. Just most were transferred over to frieght service after passenger service fell through.

This is one of the Milwaukee's F45s, used on frieght service.

Here's a couple of the Milwaukee road's FP45 used on Commuter service in Chicago.

It's pretty simple. If you see the P in any name of a locomotive it stands for passenger.

Happy railroading

James

[Randy Stahl]

 

i never knew the difference between the 2 so someone can help hopefully

i know that it is a cowl unit of the SD 45, snate fe had the majority of them & wisconsin central made a deal for 20. & some were gonna be for the milwaukee rd but w/ the soo buying milwaukee that deal fell. they were also designed more for passenger service.

 

thanks

I think we only had 7 covered wagons on WC

6650 SDF-45

6651 SDF-45

6652 SDFP-45

6653 SDF-45

6654 SDF-45

6655 SDF-45

6656 SDF-45

We also had one SDP-45 6634 ,I think.

I believe all have been scrapped.

The Milwaukee engines were bought long before the SOO entered the picture , they were bought new in 1973 . 1-5 . I recall the 2 spot as destroyed when I was working there , a result of an electrical fire.

The SDP-45 the WC had was ex Erie Lackawanna , you could still see the striped through the roughly applied conrail and later helm blue paint . I think 6634 was the only SD we had with a 5000 gallon fuel tank , along with the FP-45 6652.

[nanaimo73]

The FP45 had a steam generator to heat passenger trains, while the F45 was strictly for freight. The FP45's were 5' longer, which was added behind the radiators for the steam equipment-

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=55938

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=750879

The only FP45 locomotives went to the ATSF (9) and the Milwaukee Road (5).

[B.Erdmann]

 

i never knew the difference between the 2 so someone can help hopefully

i know that it is a cowl unit of the SD 45, snate fe had the majority of them & wisconsin central made a deal for 20. & some were gonna be for the milwaukee rd but w/ the soo buying milwaukee that deal fell. they were also designed more for passenger service.

 

thanks