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Union Pacific's GE AC rebuild program

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Friday, December 28, 2018 7:31 PM

Norfolk Southern SD70ACC units are rated at 4,500 horsepower.

I'm not so sure these will cascade down to the degree of some past models. They're more complicated and that means they're more expensive to maintain, they're heavier and harder on track, they can't go everywhere that a smaller and lighter unit can, etc.

Unless you're in need of the added pulling capability, have the shop facilities and personnel to keep these more complicated machines going, have the right of way infrastructure to support six axle/#400,000+ locomotives, and are running a 24 hour operation where the fuel savings can add up to a substantial amount, these may be a bit too much locomotive for many of the non Class 1 jobs out there.

Some Class 1's looking for a deal on used power like Canadian National with their Dash 8's that are getting ripe for replacement and some of the big regionals that run mainline style trains will probably bite. But I'm not so sure they'll filter down much past stuff like that and some of the leasing companies that do a lot of Class 1 business.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, December 28, 2018 6:23 PM

Here are a couple of theoretical scenarios for further conjecture:

1. UP needs fewer locomotives with Precision Scheduled Railroading and so turns any unneeded SD70Ms back to the lessor at the end of the current lease. The SD70Ms then cascade down to regionals and shortlines to displace SD40-2s.

2. UP decides to implement an SD70AC program similar to the Norfolk Southern SD70ACC Program and converts the SD70M DC Units to SD70AC units. (Question - are NS SD70ACC Units rated at more than 4000 HP?) Caterpillar/Progress/EMD gets a contract to remanufacture the bulk of the UP SD70M fleet to SD70AC Status, thereby allowing UP to avoid extensive Tier 4 purchases for quite some time.

There are probably other possibilities also but these are just thrown in to the hopper for discussion. And reality will almost certainly be yet something else!

 

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Posted by longhorn1969 on Friday, December 28, 2018 2:57 PM

Shadow the Cats owner

I am talking about the SD70M not the ACE models.  The 4000 HP models that they ordered a thousand of in the mid 90's right after they swallowed up the SP.  The 4000 class of straight DC models.  They are coming close to the end of their lease periods and from what I have gathered UP is not considering buying the lease out and wants to return them to the leaser.

 

 

If UP is willing to let some of these units go back it will be interesting to see what they replace them with. The Railroads at present do not seem all that eager to order Tier 4 units. Maybe UP will throw CAT another lifeline with a mega EMD order.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, December 26, 2018 2:23 PM

Leo_Ames

I believe the all-time total is actually 1,459 SD70M's for Union Pacific. 

I must've added up wrong. UtahRails says 1,452 (Which includes the 25 ex SP examples).

http://utahrails.net/articles/up-sd70m.php

Was this group ex-demos meant to show off the new cab, or perhaps warranty protection units?

"UP 3971-3973 3 20006271 London 2002 Equipped with newer cab design, to UP in 2004"

I ask since they have a 2002 build date, but 2004 delivery to UP.

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, November 19, 2018 10:58 AM

SP had 25 of the SD70M. I was lucky enough to meet a friendly conductor at Cajon Summit in late 1994 who let me tour 9800 and 9801 when they still had the ‘new car smell’. They really contrasted the two SD45-T2s that followed in the consist

 

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Monday, November 19, 2018 1:40 AM
Yeah, UP did put in an order for 900 SD70Ms, but SP had already purchased some of the model and there were others. And as far as I know UP owns some of them outright already. Right now, the SD70M is a jack of all trades locomotive for them. They use it on through trains as well as on turns. In fact the SD70s regularly pull duty with the rebuilt SD59MXs here in California. So it will be interesting to see how that all shakes out.
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Posted by Leo_Ames on Sunday, November 18, 2018 1:24 AM

I believe the all-time total is actually 1,459 for Union Pacific. 

Union Pacific's bought-new SD70M's came over a five year or so period spread across over 20 separate orders, with different purchasing arrangements. That they're considering not buying out some early examples coming off lease soon doesn't necessarily have to spell doom and gloom for the future of the SD70M in general at Union Pacific. 

A good example is why there's a gap today on Norfolk Southern's roster of ex-Southern SD40-2's from #3244 to #3254. Those 11 SD40-2's came off lease years ago back in 1990, and eventually ended up on CPR before presumably being scattered to the winds. Yet rather than being a foreshadowing of what was about to happen, 110 of their sisters remain on the Norfolk Southern roster to this very day, rebuilt and with modern standard cabs replacing their high hoods.

So perhaps some of the class could yet have a future at UP even as they move to eliminate certain groups of them? Just speculation on my part...

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, November 17, 2018 3:02 PM

Shadow the Cats owner

I am talking about the SD70M not the ACE models.  The 4000 HP models that they ordered a thousand of in the mid 90's right after they swallowed up the SP.  The 4000 class of straight DC models.  They are coming close to the end of their lease periods and from what I have gathered UP is not considering buying the lease out and wants to return them to the leaser.

 

There were 1427 at one time. utahrails.net/articles/up-sd70m.php 

They used to be my favorite to operate, especially on manifests that did work.  Now they are starting to show their age.  I suppose if they are thinking about returning them when the leases are up, that's why they aren't being maintained as well as they should.  That and G-55+0.

Jeff 

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Saturday, November 17, 2018 2:27 PM

I am talking about the SD70M not the ACE models.  The 4000 HP models that they ordered a thousand of in the mid 90's right after they swallowed up the SP.  The 4000 class of straight DC models.  They are coming close to the end of their lease periods and from what I have gathered UP is not considering buying the lease out and wants to return them to the leaser.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:53 AM

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but Union Pacific doesn't have less than 1000 SD70M's. It's more like 1,500, as I recall. 

Would be nice to see a rebuilding program for the SD70M's. Time will tell and even though Union Pacific concentrated on GE during the first wave of AC units, it did like the later SD70ACe and bought heavily into that model. So rebuilding SD70M's to similar standards would likely yield a good locomotive for them.

A lot of "if's" have to line up, but I wouldn't count out a DC-to-AC rebuild to SD70ACe style standards for a sizeable portion of this large fleet of SD70M's.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Saturday, November 17, 2018 10:35 AM

Look for the SD70M's to go first more than likely.  Why DC traction motors are becoming less wanted on the Class 1 railroads overall.  Even NS is rebuilding regular units into AC's along with the BNSF.  UP has more than 2000 AC4400's less than 1000 SD70's which in the case for the 70's are Leased power.

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Thursday, November 15, 2018 3:23 PM
I wonder how many they will be rebuilding though. Given their switch to Precision Scheduled Railroading which will presumably reduce the number of locomotives in inventory.
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Posted by M636C on Monday, November 5, 2018 10:49 PM

I assume these will keep their existing motors but get updated inverters....

The motors are probably not very different to current production.

They could have done the same with their EMDs but left that to NS.

Peter

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Union Pacific's GE AC rebuild program
Posted by Leo_Ames on Monday, November 5, 2018 2:19 PM

I believe this has been mentioned in the newswire, but not the greatly expanded scope of it. The 20 unit sample will now expand to a Norfolk Southern style program encompassing 980 AC4400CW locomotives, according to the latest issue of Trains.

The first group will be composed of 195 locomotives over three years and will include both AC4400CW and AC6044CW convertibles. No mention is made of the AC6000CW's that were essentially converted backwards into AC6044CW's, but I assume with less miles on them since their rebuild that they're probably planned but will come later on (Or they're just being lumped in with the convertibles, even though they were built as full AC6000CW's).

Looking at the totals over at Wikipedia that show over 1,300 AC4400CW's, 80 AC6000CW's (Probably less with retirements), and over 110 convertibles seems to suggest that Union Pacific is potentially eyeing retiring certain groups of this family while rebuilding the bulk of it. 

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