us railroads that operated in Canada

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us railroads that operated in Canada
Posted by NP Eddie on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 5:02 PM

ALL:

This question is about US railroads that operated in Canada. I do know that the Great Northern purchased three switch engines from GM Canada for use at Vancouver, BC. Were the switch engines and road units that operated on the MC (NYC) and Wabash/NW also purchased in Canada? As information, the GN paid duty on about six or eight Geep's and three cabooses to run from Seattle to Vancouver. Did I miss any other railroads?

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 5:14 PM

For quite some time the Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo was co-owned by Canadian Pacific and New York Central. It operated a couple of "very-Central-looking" Hudson 4-6-4s and also operated a couple of "what-an-NYC-Berksire-would-have-looked-like" 2-8-4s.

 

A TH&B Hudson:

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/non-nyc/images/th&b-502.jpg

http://media.zuza.com/1/a/1a33f2e8-bbe0-4ee8-93cc-77e666b66510/B821871057Z.1_20150219181548_000_GH11E5L6B.2_Gallery.jpg

A TH&B Berkshire:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/d2/9e/f1d29eecb87176581b74cd9b35e62c76.jpg

http://www.nfrm.ca/images_galleries/images_thb/thb201MontroseRdthmb.jpg

 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 6:48 PM

These were all built in Canada, along with one Wabash GP7. When people say N&W did not have  F Units you can tell 'em 'balderdash' these were painted into N&W colours. Posted a picture of those on the Quiz over at Classic a while back.

664 part of 20 unit order F7A built as 1155, 1155A to 1164, 1164A 
(A125 - A144 11/1950 - 3/1951) this was C-106 the sixth order for GMD. 

670 part of 20 unit order 657-676

Also check out 'A Geeps Tale" on Classic Trains, go back one page . We did a lot on there on this subject.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 8:11 PM

C&O/PM also operated thru the southern Ontario short-cut. 

There were D&H trains to Montreal.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, April 04, 2018 6:42 AM

New York Central also had a line to Montreal coming up the south side of Lake Ontario. CSX still operates it for now.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, April 04, 2018 8:37 PM

NYC also had a line to Ottawa.  Maine Central had a line up into Quebec north of Beecher Falls, VT., and another line that wandered over the New Brunswick border.

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Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, April 05, 2018 10:37 AM

Delaware & Hudson, Boston & Maine, MEC, Penn Central (NYC), Chessie System, Conrail, Wabash. Montreal, Maine & Atlantic.. 

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Posted by CPRcst on Thursday, April 05, 2018 1:41 PM

BNSF (BNSF Manitoba Ltd) still operates a one unit switcher and has a small yard in Winnipeg. CN handles their traffic to the parent at Emerson / Noyes. 

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Posted by NP Eddie on Thursday, April 05, 2018 6:08 PM

What is the number of the BNSF ML unit in Winnipeg? Was is built in Canada?

Miningman, yes the NW did have cab units, but they were on the rosters of the Wabash and NKP. Before those mergers, the NW did not have cab units.

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, April 05, 2018 6:56 PM

That is correct.

Norfolk and Western 

Norfolk and Western acquired the Wabash in a 1964 complex merger that included three other US roads. 
Another three US roads were also merged and then in 1982 Southern was merged to form Norfolk Southern. 
In 2011 NS ended the old Wabash perpetual running rights due in a large part to a loss of traffic. 
CN insisted NS continue to operate across the border at Fort Erie to perform interchange. 

NW 3453 ex Wabash 453 GMD A148 1/1951 Only road switcher built for Canadian service. 

CN diesel shop Fort Erie. N&W 3657 first unit of a 20 unit order. ex Wabash 657 nee 1155.
GMD A125 November 1950

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Posted by traisessive1 on Friday, April 13, 2018 9:20 PM

NP Eddie

What is the number of the BNSF ML unit in Winnipeg? Was is built in Canada?

 

 
Whatever engine BNSF sends up there from Grand Forks. 
 
The Great Northern and the Northern Pacific had lines into Brandon and Portage la Prairie in Manitoba as well as the line into Winnipeg (the reason BNSF has a job in Winnipeg still).

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, April 14, 2018 6:51 AM

BNSF of Manitoba (formerly Midland Ry of Manitoba as a joint GN/NP subsidiary) did have its own GP9.  I believe that it was built in London.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by traisessive1 on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 5:35 PM

That GP9 is now at the Prairie Dog Central.

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by GT Mills on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 8:32 PM

There is a map of the Pere Marquette system, which crosses from Michigan into Ontario at Port Huron and Detroit, MI,  then crosses back over to the US at two river crossings into Buffalo, NY.  I believe the Pere Marquette RR acquired the Canadian route in January 1903.  C&O finally swallowed PM in 1947, so I don't think they had any service into Canada prior to that.  I can't seem to upload the map for you here.  The Pere Marquette started out as the Flint & Pere Marquette, with service from Bay City, MI to Flint opened in January 1862.  

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Posted by K SCOTT GUDGEON on Tuesday, April 24, 2018 4:35 AM
And NYC's Adirondack Division extended north from Saranac Lake Junction via Malone into Canada. That track was ripped up. The rest of the Adirondack Division today is the Adirondack Scenic that operates between Utica-Thendara, and Lake Placid-Saranac Lake with with out of service track in between. Litigation over a senseless rail/trail fight continues affecting track north of Tupper Lake,.
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Posted by Sunnyland on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 11:00 PM

Grand Trunk went out of Chicago to Toronto, rode it with my parents.  I think it might have been owned by CN or some kind of partnership, but GT was considered an American RR.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 26, 2018 9:50 AM

Chicago to both Detroit and Saint Clair, with Canadian National continuing on from St. Clair to Toronto and further east, was Grand Trunk Western, a USA railroad owned by Canadian National.

Grand Trunk was also a USA railroad owned by Canadian National, running from south of Montreal to Portland, Maine.

They often swapped equipment, ditto with another USA railroad owned by Canadian National, the Central Vermont, from again south of Montreal to New London, Connecticut, with connection there to both the New Haven and its own steamship line to New York City.  The steamship line was discontinued when war commenced in 1939.

In the 1970's I not only enjoyed steam excursions out of Detroit on the Grand Trunk Western, but also served as a car-host crew-member for steam trips out of New London on the Central Vermont run by Branford Electric Ry. Assoc.  The latter usually had Grand Trunk coaches with a Grand Trunk Western or Canadian National steam locomotive, usually a 4-8-4.

The Mowhawk was the Grand Trunk Western's answer to the Perlman degrading of the New York Central's Chicago - Detroit service, with a competitive running time, despite the longer rout via Durand, and a very good dining car.

The last Grand Trunk pasenger service was Friday and Sunday afternoon-evening coach and parlor Portland - Montreal service.  No diner, but parlor-car passengers could by sandwiches and hot tea and coffee and cold drinks, possibly wine and beer but unsure of that.  This also provided the last Boston - Montreal service after the Alouette CP & B&M two-car RDC train was finally dropped.  One could ride the 1pm B&M Budd RDC train to Portland. taxi to the Grand Trunk station and ride its Friday evening train to Montreal.  Interestingly, the Grand Trunk parlor car carried the name Alouette!

Of course, the flagship of the Grand Trunk Western was the International Limited, Chicago - Toronto, coaches, sleepers, diner, and lounge.  For a while an ex-Nickel Plate lounge car, perhaps two, were used.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Thursday, April 26, 2018 10:27 AM

Sunnyland:

The Grand Trunk Western, Duluth, Winnipeg, and Pacific, and the Central Vermont were US subsidaries of the Canadian National Railroad probably due to US regulations.

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Posted by dmoore74 on Friday, April 27, 2018 4:05 PM

The Central Vermont had lines to Cantic and St. Johns, Quebec, prior to control by Grand Trunk (c.1898).  They were acquired in part to block the Canadian Pacific from entering their territory.  

 

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Posted by 2342G3 on Saturday, April 28, 2018 10:12 PM

In British Columbia Great Northern had lines from Eureka Montana to the Crowsnest pass coal mines at Fernie and Michel. Also a line from Bonners Ferry to Kuskanook on Kootenay Lake(The sKuskanook tation stood until wiped out by mudslide early 2000's) This line connected to an extensive sternwheeler system on Kootenay lake and an ophaned narrow gauge line from Kaslo to Sandon silver mines. Lines from Kettle Falls Wash. to Nelson and Grand Forks parts of which still exist under short lines. A line from Curlew Wa. on the Grand Forks line to Oroville that criss-Crossed the border several time and continued on to Princeton B.C. The GN built the line from Princeton to Brookmere jointly used by Kettle Valley and had running rights on CP's Kettle Valley over Coquihalla Pass but never used. Also had line running east from New Westminster to near Hope. this was to be a through Vancouver to Spokane route via Princerton-Orville-Grand Forks-Kettle Falls. 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, April 28, 2018 11:18 PM

2342G3

The GN built the line from Princeton to Brookmere jointly used by Kettle Valley and had running rights on CP's Kettle Valley over Coquihalla Pass but never used. Also had line running east from New Westminster to near Hope. this was to be a through Vancouver to Spokane route via Princerton-Orville-Grand Forks-Kettle Falls. 

Not quite.  The GN ran exactly one train through Coquihalla Pass, a passenger special carrying the Board of Directors not long after Jim Hill passed away.  

It seems that much of GN's southern B.C. expansion was motivated by Hill's desire for revenge, as he had earlier been forced out of CPR management.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:30 AM

daveklepper

Chicago to both Detroit and Saint Clair, with Canadian National continuing on from St. Clair to Toronto and further east, was Grand Trunk Western, a USA railroad owned by Canadian National.

Minor correction.  It ran to Port Huron, not St. Clair.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:49 AM

The history of Southern British Columbia is all about Railroads and Mining. The CPR vs. The Great Northern. Van Horne vs. James J. Hill.

It was a Cold War, as US interests through Mining and Railroads dominated the region economically and threatened the sovereignty of not only Southern BC but all of Canada. Things cooled off as the CPR built the Kettle Valley Line, and eventually finished it. 

It set off alarm bells in Ottawa though. 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, April 29, 2018 9:40 PM

Backshop

 

 
daveklepper

Chicago to both Detroit and Saint Clair, with Canadian National continuing on from St. Clair to Toronto and further east, was Grand Trunk Western, a USA railroad owned by Canadian National.

 

 

Minor correction.  It ran to Port Huron, not St. Clair.

 

 

I noticed that, but then I thought he might have been talking about the St. Clair Tunnel.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, May 03, 2018 6:53 AM

I believe that the St. Clair Tunnel Co. was a separate subsidiary of CN with its own motive power and personnel.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by CPRcst on Monday, May 07, 2018 10:58 PM

BNSF 1523 is based in Winnipeg, it goes to Fargo every couple of years for service. I’ve been on the unit a few times (before I retired from CP) but I’m not a power guy so I can’t tell you about it’s lineage. 

This engine is always put away in the engine shed when they are done switching, but tonight is sitting in their yard south of Corydon Ave. 

I took a photo but my Ipad  isn‘t cooperating with inserting the photo. 

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, May 08, 2018 12:09 AM

1523 is a GP28M rebuilt from a former Northern Pacific GP9 (NP 332, BN 1917). Was in BN paint with a fairly unique "Think...Before You Cross" Operation Lifesaver slogan before being repainted in 2014.

It's fun to track these things as they move around... 1523 worked in Illinois for a while before moving to Missouri in 2008, Alabama in 2009, then all the way to Washington in 2011 before travelling to Minnesota in 2013, getting the Winnepeg job sometime in 2015 or 2016.

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Posted by LehighVic on Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:46 PM

Ed:

Don't forget the Lehigh Valley. The LVR ran its Black Diamond to Toronto headed by camelbacks (Pacifics?) before the turn of the (20th) century and then pulled by conventional (streamlined, Asa Packer's) Pacifics up until the early 60's.

Vic Minetola

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Posted by Maine_Central_guy on Wednesday, May 16, 2018 8:02 PM

Central Maine and Quebec has lines into canada, and so does the NBSR/MNRY/EMRY system

 

 

 

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Posted by cx500 on Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:17 AM

LehighVic

Ed:

Don't forget the Lehigh Valley. The LVR ran its Black Diamond to Toronto headed by camelbacks (Pacifics?) before the turn of the (20th) century and then pulled by conventional (streamlined, Asa Packer's) Pacifics up until the early 60's.

Vic Minetola

 

I would be surprised if the LV locomotives ever ran through to Toronto, likely replaced by one from CNR who I believe was the Canadian partner in the through train.  (Prior to the 1920s it would have been the Grand Trunk instead of CNR, of course.)  Freight interchange would take place at the Niagara frontier. 

A number of international interchange locations saw locomotives from either side crossing over to transfer cars.  That is operating in Canada, but it's only a very limited sense.  For example the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton came through the Detroit Tunnel to deliver cars to the CPR yard in Windsor, Ontario.  The Union Pacific crossed from Idaho into Canada at Kingsgate, BC, just far enough to couple to the train delivered by CPR.  At Sumas, on the Washington/BC border, the Milwaukee and Northern Pacific interchanged with Canadian roads.  I don't know if they crossed into Canada there.

John

 

 

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