YoHo1975I've only heard a 265H once and I can't remember it. I only know I heard it, because of picture evidence. The 1010J is quiet(relatively). The emissions equipment makes them really quiet.
I only saw EMDX 1605 or 1606 in person once while CN was testing them, and it sounded like a giant vacuum cleaner. But it was noticeably quieter than a ET44AC.
Everyone I know who ran those two demonstrators just loved them, in addition to being quiet they loaded very smoothly and dug in well. I really thought CN was going to order a bunch, well, at least until they both got killed by the -30°C Saskatchewan deep freeze. IIRC a manifold cracked on one unit (no idea if this was part of the EGR system) and a sensor failed on the other, making the computer falsely think the engine was cold. Both failures resulted in much delay and required an additional locomotive to move the train.
Less than a week after that happened the big 200 unit GE order was announced.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Greatly looking forward to seeing and hearing those CSX SD70ACe-T4 units. They will be the first brand-new EMD locomotives CSX has purchased since those first 20 SD70ACes. They will be unlike anything else on the roster. (I've never heard a 265H or 1010J engine in person!)
CN has a total of 260 GE's being delivered. From 2018 through to 2020 and maybe 2021.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
For those that haven't seen anything about those Union Pacific GE's that YoHo has in his list, the initial Union Pacific order for C44ACM's is for 195 units spread over three years.
At the end of the day, it still doesn't tell us what 2019's tally will look like of course. But presumably it will be roughly split into 1/3's. Either way, it's a substantial order and investment into rebuilt power.
And here is the current 2019 info Sean has
From information that has been posted publicly about domestic orders:
As you can see, lots of work being done with GE and EMD, but not all that many new loco orders.
Here are the current loco order numbers per Sean Graham-White per his post on Loconotes You will note that CN took delivery of a sizable ET44AC/ES44AC-T4C order and UP a Sizable SD70ACe-T4 order....and everyone else was small orders or rebuilds.
Gennesse and Wyoming have several that were on the Utah Railroad as coal haulers, just like home for the type. For UR they generally ran well although the crews hated the low profile cabs. And since they were all being used in Utah they had to have heaters installed on all the parts that could cold soak. East Central Utah winters can get a might cold, especially in the coal country surrounding Price.
Whatever happened, I'm glad I wasn't there to experience it. Those leased ex-UP and CSX units are absolute junk. I thought our 2100's and 5400's were bad, these leasers are worse!
The CREX units are awesome though. CN should just buy them on the spot.
They likely are.
A train the other day left Fort Frances with two UP units on the head end and two UP on the tail end. Both head end units somehow lost heat. Their answer ... portable heaters. But since UP has crap all in their cabs there were no outlets! Not sure how the rest of the day went on for the relief crew.
traisessive1 The M-2 units are just fine in the winter. The SD70i and SD75i are trash in the winter. Their main reservoirs drop at the hint of cold temperatures. I don't know why they're the best liked. They're great on dry rail in warm termperatures but add in winter temperatures and/or wet rail and they're trash.
The M-2 units are just fine in the winter.
The SD70i and SD75i are trash in the winter. Their main reservoirs drop at the hint of cold temperatures. I don't know why they're the best liked. They're great on dry rail in warm termperatures but add in winter temperatures and/or wet rail and they're trash.
I like them because they are really quiet (except in DB) and have good cab heaters. I've even seen a few that have had strip heaters and air conditioning added, along with the PTC equipment they all seem to be receiving.
The AC units and M-2's have excellent wheelslip control, but I would prefer a SD75 over any of the DC GE units for a leader on grades. The Dash-8's and 9's are terrible for surging, slipping and dropping their load, and many of the ES44DC's do that too. When at different times I worked on the Grande Cache Sub and Alberta Coal Branch I noticed that tonnage trains with EMD power would climb the ruling grades slightly faster than those with older GE's, and stall less frequently.
The SD70I's and SD75I's were a pain when one found its way onto a mine run, as they do not work in pacesetter with any other units.
traisessive1 The C40-8 and SD60 units CN has are trash in the winter. The heat sucks and the cab is drafty. You're always bundled up just as if you are outside when it's cold.
The C40-8 and SD60 units CN has are trash in the winter. The heat sucks and the cab is drafty. You're always bundled up just as if you are outside when it's cold.
Is Symington still putting portable space heaters in those?
Same here on the RF&P Subdivision of CSX's Baltimore Divison. GE's predominate on most of the road trains now, with an ocasional visit by an SD40-2/-3. Local power is still pretty much the very reliable GP38-2's and GP40-2's, though.
[quote user="DOUG KNAPP"]
SD60 M & SD60I are wonderful locomotives and CSX still uses both. They are receiving PTC and have cab signal. The SD70MAC is not too bad in both generations but the SD70ACe is a bad experience to operate and maintain. They were designed by Rube Goldberg and slapped together by the Three Stooges. 20 units was 20 too many. I know CSX is testing Cat's tier 4 ACe and I hope the results are better. EMD locos have always been more durable and longer lasting than GEs but the first ACe units were a far cry from the quality of the SD40-2 units of which there are still many on the CSX roster.
CN is in the middle of taking possession of a 260 unit order from GE. They hav ordered both T3 and T4 units. As of right now, CN is not rebuilding any of their fleet.
When I went railfanning in Utica, NY, I only saw one EMD- and that was a GP38-2.
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
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YoHo1975How many SD70ACes would EMD have had to sell for them to have "operationally stepped up to the plate?" Their sales counts are dwarfed by GE, but they aren't tokenism. In fact they seem to reflect a rebound from the previous doldrums. I don't think the success of the T4 variant can tell you ANYTHING of value. Locomotive purchases have been off for some time. GE just had a product out in time to pick up some sales that EMD couldn't. The Railroads are ALL turning to rebuild efforts and are curtailing T4 purchases. And EMD/Progress seems to be doing quite well in that market.
I don't think the success of the T4 variant can tell you ANYTHING of value. Locomotive purchases have been off for some time. GE just had a product out in time to pick up some sales that EMD couldn't. The Railroads are ALL turning to rebuild efforts and are curtailing T4 purchases. And EMD/Progress seems to be doing quite well in that market.
Having the right product for the market when the market is looking for it is what business is all about. Snooze and you loose.
The railroads don't want GE as the only manufacturer, EMD has to up the performance of their product line to take back market share. That is what competition is all about and the carriers do want competition among locomotive manufacturers.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Crocker Junction EMD has produced many outstanding units, in years past. The SD70 and I believe the SD70Ace were developed by the Canadian owned EMD a few years back. With the relatively new Electromotive Diesel acquisition by Progress Rail, and backed by parent Caterpillar, the EMD marque will have solid guidance and the mechanical and electronics maladies will be corrected. The Railroad industry should do everything they can to help keep America’s two Class One locomotive builders alive, if not healthy. Competition assures a dependable and competitively priced product. I hope both manufacturers survive and flourish. Purchase statistics indicate that the EMD/Progress Rail/ Caterpillar products are not operationally stepping up to the plate. While the rail industry does need two or more manufacturers to keep price and performance under control - both need to have products that are near each other from a performance and reliability standpoint. We are in the era of PSR - PSR requires reliable, economical motivepower. EMD of the past is not the EMD of today.
Crocker Junction EMD has produced many outstanding units, in years past. The SD70 and I believe the SD70Ace were developed by the Canadian owned EMD a few years back. With the relatively new Electromotive Diesel acquisition by Progress Rail, and backed by parent Caterpillar, the EMD marque will have solid guidance and the mechanical and electronics maladies will be corrected. The Railroad industry should do everything they can to help keep America’s two Class One locomotive builders alive, if not healthy. Competition assures a dependable and competitively priced product. I hope both manufacturers survive and flourish.
EMD has produced many outstanding units, in years past. The SD70 and I believe the SD70Ace were developed by the Canadian owned EMD a few years back. With the relatively new Electromotive Diesel acquisition by Progress Rail, and backed by parent Caterpillar, the EMD marque will have solid guidance and the mechanical and electronics maladies will be corrected. The Railroad industry should do everything they can to help keep America’s two Class One locomotive builders alive, if not healthy. Competition assures a dependable and competitively priced product. I hope both manufacturers survive and flourish.
Purchase statistics indicate that the EMD/Progress Rail/ Caterpillar products are not operationally stepping up to the plate. While the rail industry does need two or more manufacturers to keep price and performance under control - both need to have products that are near each other from a performance and reliability standpoint. We are in the era of PSR - PSR requires reliable, economical motivepower.
EMD of the past is not the EMD of today.
How many SD70ACes would EMD have had to sell for them to have "operationally stepped up to the plate?" Their sales counts are dwarfed by GE, but they aren't tokenism. In fact they seem to reflect a rebound from the previous doldrums.
kgbw49 ....not to mention the legions of AC4400CWs and SD70S they also own that could get the AC4400CWM or SD70ACC treatment.
Does UP own the locomotives or does it lease them?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
It will be interesting to see how PSR plays out related to locomotives.
CN did not buy very many new for quite some time, and then when they first started buying additional units they went with used GE C40-8 units from various roads before buying new GEs in modest amounts.
CP has not bought any new units for quite some time other than the GP20C-ECO “rebuilds” to replace yard and local power. They have rebuilt numerous units such as SD60s and AC4400s. Now as traffic increases they are reactivating their long-stored SD9043MACs and rebuilding them to SD70ACUs to increase their active fleet size.
One would think that as CSX, NS and UP implement PSR, they will have a significant number of stored units and will be able to go to those first if they are successful at increasing traffic in the long run. As one potential example, UP on its own could go the SD70ACU route for their approximately 200 units of SD9043MACs if traffic bumps up, not to mention the legions of AC4400CWs and SD70S they also own that could get the AC4400CWM or SD70ACC treatment.
So one might expect that new Tier 4 unit sales in North America for both GE and Cat/Progress/EMD will be in the smaller range for a number of years as PSR roads increase capacity from stored units first.
EMD was rarely the innovator and went more for dependability in its designs. Note that turbochargers weren't a factory application on 567 engines until Union Pacific forced their hand. GE was first with a pressurized carbody, Alco had the first AC/DC drive (the C630), etc.
New locomotive sales are in the doldrums right now (rebuilds are bigger business) and it will be interesting to see what happens when sales of new motive power pick up.
NSrailfan8114 They Should buy EMDs
They Should buy EMDs
Other than for foamer variety, why? As Northwest pointed out the thundercabs are junk, and at only 19 units, a small subfleet. CSX seems to be OK with a majority GE fleet, so why are you so against it?
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n012944 NSrailfan8114 They Should buy EMDs Other than for foamer variety, why? As Northwest pointed out the thundercabs are junk, and at only 19 units, a small subfleet. CSX seems to be OK with a majority GE fleet, so why are you so against it?
If SD70Aces are disliked by crew members, what locomotives should the railroad use to pull freight? I know the first SD70ACE's made around 2004-2008 are terrible, but the second batch from 2012 onwards were better.
Saturnalia CN has found their SD70M-2s to not be well suited to the harsh winter conditions of western Canada, they just can't keep them from freezing up like an ice cube. So, they attempt to keep them in the US during the winter.
CN has found their SD70M-2s to not be well suited to the harsh winter conditions of western Canada, they just can't keep them from freezing up like an ice cube. So, they attempt to keep them in the US during the winter.
Really? We get them out west all the time. The whispercab-equipped units are considered the best DC units we have by us crews, in part due to their reliability.
What is the reason for the cold-related problems?
Hey, remember on January 16th I said railfans have to get trackside, because you never know what you might see?
Me neither, but anyway I was taking lunch today at one of my favorite spots on the periphery of the local Amtrak station, and there, parked and idling, was an NS Dash-8. What was it doing at an Amtrak station in CSX territory? Who knows, but it sure was an interesting find.
Got to get out there, especially if you live near a busy line. You might see anything!
Entropy NorthWest What is the status of the retired unit? I think there are still the ex-BHP SD70ACes of similar vintage still at Muncie. One thing you need to understand, the BHP units are equipped differently from anything used on a North American Class 1 railroad. This makes using them in NA a hard fit for most, or alot of rework. For example they have 220VAC 50hz outlets, dual air conditioners, no heaters, drains arn't heated, no awnings. The list goes on.
NorthWest What is the status of the retired unit? I think there are still the ex-BHP SD70ACes of similar vintage still at Muncie.
What is the status of the retired unit? I think there are still the ex-BHP SD70ACes of similar vintage still at Muncie.
One thing you need to understand, the BHP units are equipped differently from anything used on a North American Class 1 railroad. This makes using them in NA a hard fit for most, or alot of rework.
For example they have 220VAC 50hz outlets, dual air conditioners, no heaters, drains arn't heated, no awnings. The list goes on.
Interesting notes, to which I'll add that even some units equipped for North American service aren't the best suited to it. CN has found their SD70M-2s to not be well suited to the harsh winter conditions of western Canada, they just can't keep them from freezing up like an ice cube. So, they attempt to keep them in the US during the winter.
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