ACY In my recollection, PRR men generally used the class as an identifier for steam engines because the numbers didn't always follow a pattern that lent itself to the use of numbers. Some engines had specific nicknames, such as "The Big Engine" S1 6-4-4-6 number 6100, or L1s "Lollipops". I don't know how widespread the "Lollipop" nickname was, but I don't think you would hear it on all divisions. Tom
In my recollection, PRR men generally used the class as an identifier for steam engines because the numbers didn't always follow a pattern that lent itself to the use of numbers. Some engines had specific nicknames, such as "The Big Engine" S1 6-4-4-6 number 6100, or L1s "Lollipops". I don't know how widespread the "Lollipop" nickname was, but I don't think you would hear it on all divisions.
Tom
And who could forget the Hippos? I suspect many more PRR men knew a 2-10-0 as a Hippo than knew it was a Class I1 or I1sa when superheating was a new idea (and yes, the hyphen should be missing in PRR classes - just another way the P Company was different).
When I worked for the Central, I never heard steam locomotives mentioned by their classes; the first engine number of the class was used instead. This carried over to Diesels so a GP-40 (the best we had at the time) was a 3000.
Talked to many PRR old timers after the PC merger and they almost always used class designations or nicknames. Strangely enough, Diesels were as often referred to by the railroad's class as the builders'; i.e., a crew might, in one conversation, call a unit an EP22 or an E8. My favorite though was the BP60; its very appropriate nicknames were Centipede (for its 2-D-D-2+2-D-D-2 wheel arrangement) and Baby Face (for obvious reasons from about 10' in front of the pilot).
And an electric was NEVER an engine or locomotive; it was and probably still is properly called a motor.
ChuckAllen, TX
tatans I remember as a kid steam locos were referred to by engine number, ''5935'' or "3100'' I never heard the term ''Selkirk'' or "Northern" when referring to an engine and would bet most railroaders would not even know what the term meant.
I remember as a kid steam locos were referred to by engine number, ''5935'' or "3100'' I never heard the term ''Selkirk'' or "Northern" when referring to an engine and would bet most railroaders would not even know what the term meant.
Chuck:
Actually, PRR numbering "always"(?) followed a pattern, but it was unlike the patern followed by other roads. I'm not sure about the very early years, but as PRR expanded it grouped locomotive numbers so that each controlled line had its own assigned number series. In those years, if a person referred to a "601" series, it was a Camden & Amboy engine; a "1677" series was Philadelphia & Erie; an "8001" was PCC&StL (Panhandle). As each new engine was acquired for each particular line, it was given the next available number in the series assigned to that line. Many engines were assigned to the Greater PRR system. As a result, various engines of various classes were grouped in the same number series, and two engines of the same class might have widely different numbers. Referring to locos by number series was meaningless if the goal was to identify the class of the engine.
This changed during the 1923-1924 time period. G5s 4-6-0's built in 1923 were delivered with scattered numbers, but those delivered in 1924 were delivered in a solid block of no. 5700-5749. Juniata I1s' delivered in 1916-19 had scattered numbers, but those delivered by Baldwin in 1923 were numbered 4225-4699. K4s Pacifics delivered 1914-1920 had scattered numbers, but those delivered from 1924 onward were numbered consecutively 5350-5499. Later deliveries of M1/M1a, production T1's, J's, and production Q2's, were for the most part numbered in consecutive blocks.
Even after introduction of this consistency, the earlier-built engines continued to carry their original numbers, so identification by number series would have been impractical unless there had been a wholesale system renumbering of thousands and thousands of locomotives. A few experimentals such as the early Duplexes, the S2 Turbine, etc. had unique numbers. As a result, identification by class was the de facto logical solution.
(edited)
ACY: You said PRR engine numbers "didn't always follow a pattern". I'd say they rarely followed any pattern; at least, not until very late. J1s, Q2s, and T1s were all numbered sequentially but I can't think of another steam class that had predictable numbers. Some motors may have.
That led to another of the many differences between the PRR and the NYC. As a survivor of the merger, I got to talk to many older enginemen from both roads about their experiences with steam. As you said, PRR men generally used class designations although some had favorite nicknames. More people in Altoona knew what a Hippo was than could identify an I1.
NYC was more consistent in keeping numbers sequential within a class and NYC people usually used the number of the first engine of a class to refer to the class although I do recall some men speaking fondly of Hudsons, Niagaras, and Mohawks. Still you were more likely to hear about a 6000 than about a Niagara.
Diesels kind of did away with colorful or remarkable names and people on both roads normally used the number of the first unit. I seldom heard GP-40 (the premier power on the NYC at the time) and, even though PRR was still in the throws of buying one of everything, they didn't use manufacturer models much. One exception to all of this was that Alcos were universally disliked and acquired some "colorful" nicknames --- too "colorful" for this blog.
tomikawaTT Depending on how (un)cooperative the motive power had been, I have heard engineers use terms which would have stripped paint off a bulkhead. Chuck
Depending on how (un)cooperative the motive power had been, I have heard engineers use terms which would have stripped paint off a bulkhead.
Chuck
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. What railroad employees call a locomotive could be "unit" or "engine" or "locomotive" or perhaps one of the industrial-strength words you have alluded to under sufficient provocation . . .
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
As to locomotive crew being interested in the type of unit:
I remember years ago (1992, I think) I was In Fostoria OH and there was a Kodachrome coloured SF30C in some sort of lease service. The crewman climbed into the cab and made the usual checks, but then climbed down and went to the builder's plate on the cab side and read it...
I assume this was the first one he'd seen.
M636C
On CN a locomotive is mostly referred to as a "unit", but sometimes as an "engine". In the operating manual and collective agreements they are referred to mostly as "diesel units".
Most guys refer to the different types by their number series; a GP40 would be called a 9400, and a ES44AC a 2800 or 2900 for example. A few old heads still refer to them by the CN class identification (which is still stencilled on most units below the cab side windows), in this scheme a SD40 would be called a GF-30.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
A lot of reference to railroaders using road number series when referring to engines. It still happens. When talking about our SD70m models, many of us usually refer to the 4000's. Even though there's so many that they spill over in 3900 and 5000 series.
For the modern GE's, I usually just refer to them as that (GE's) in casual conversation. There a variations, as Balt said, but for the most part those don't usually matter much to us in the field.
For the times it might matter, such as logging into one of the on-board fuel conservation systems or figuring TPA/EDBA, our paper work gives all that information. Including model designation as used by the railroad.
Jeff
Curve wreckers (esp some of the GE's)
In December of '65, I rode SAL #6 from Birmingham to Monroe, N.C. While the mail was being worked in Athens, Ga., I walked up to the head end, where I found the engineer on the ground . He spoke proudly of his "new motor," and offered me a ride. I was uncertain about the reception by the conductor when I returned to the coach, so I demurred, and thanked the engineer.
Johnny
And back in the old days some veteran railroaders referred to the new diesels as "streetcars."
There was a Southern Railway steam master mechanic who was heard screaming out the doors of the backshop "You ain't bringin' those streetcars in my shop!"
The word "motor" was, as I recall, never applied to steam locomotives. It was first used, I believe, by the New York Central and New Haven to differentiate electrics from steam and later applied to diesels
With less than a dozen locomotives, and only two sets of two of the same model, we usually go with the unit number, or occasionally the model.
Beyond that, it depends on the experience of the crew member.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Back in the 1950s to 1970s on the east end of the B&O engines were usually referred to as "8400s" or "6500s", etc. Sometimes you would hear a mention of the builder such as in "Go get that ALCO off the office track". Seems to me it was late 1970s or early 1980s when you started to hear "SW1" or "GP9" etc.
Once in a great while you might hear somebody on the B&O call a diesel a "motor".
On the PRR (and PC and CR), at least in the electrified zone, "motor" referred to an electric locomotive.
kgbw49 Today, road diesels all have two six-wheel trucks, and local and a lot of switch power have two four-wheel trucks, so there is a lot of "sameness" compared to the variety that was steam, so they must have other ways, such as "motor" as previously mentioned by mookie.
Today, road diesels all have two six-wheel trucks, and local and a lot of switch power have two four-wheel trucks, so there is a lot of "sameness" compared to the variety that was steam, so they must have other ways, such as "motor" as previously mentioned by mookie.
Only a sameness, until you understand the power fleet you are dealing with.
We have 4 axles, 6 axles, Dash-8's, AC's, Heavys, Steerables, Train Controls, DP's and MofW engines and there are still a few buttheads running around.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I only recall these from various railroad articles and books by excellent authors, and if I recall correctly, they too wrote about such things as:
On UP, crews using numerical nomenclature - four thousand (4-8-8-4), thirty nine hundred (4-6-6-4), eight hundred (4-8-4), five thousand (2-10-2), seven thousand (4-8-2), nine thousand or nine (4-12-2), etc.
On SP, forty one hundred and forty two hundred (4-8-8-2), forty three hundred (4-8-2), forty four hundred (4-8-4), five thousand (4-10-2), Dec (2-10-2 - truncated form of the word decapod), Valley Malley (2-6-0, with Malley being a rhyming form of Mallet, in apparent reference to the prodigious amount of freight a 2-6-0 could pull on the relatively gradeless San Joaquin Valley lines of the SP).
When Class 1 Railroads were not so large as today and most lines had unique steam power, and there were not really run-through freights, it was probably easier to use a number reference like that.
On the Norfolk and Western where they used class letter - A, J, K, Y, Z, etc.
Finally, apparently on C&O they referred to 2-8-2s as Mikes and 2-8-4s as Big Mikes.
Lots of colorful stuff per the authors who interviewed the actual hoggers.
For a time I worked in the power office of a major eastern railroad.
Most eastern railroads came up with their own class system for
their engines. For instance on the NYC an E8 was a DPA5.
By the time I left the builders' model designations were more
commonly used.
In the late 1950's, my dad and I spent many an evening at the B&O's engine terminal in Akron, Ohio, and talked with the old timers about their steam recollections. When most of the guys referred to Q-1 or Q-7 Mikados, they called them "Forty hundreds". Q-4's, Q-4a's, and Q-4b's were all called "Q-4's" or, more often, "Forty four hundreds". It's interesting that many modern day railfans almost always call them all "Q-4b's". Back in the day, subclasses were usually ignored.
Most of the time, any articulated was called a Mallet, whether it was compound or simple. Sometimes EM-1 2-8-8-4's were called 7600's or, less often, EM-1's. They were NEVER called "Big Emma's"! That was an L&N term!
The class designation was sometimes used, especially when there were different classes of the same general types. For example, class T, T-1, T-2, and T-3 were all in the 5500 series, so they were often referred to by class. The second-hand T-4's were usually called "the B&M engines".
L-1 and L-1a 0-8-0 switchers were always called "ten hundreds". The preference for the original number series continued, even after renumbering.
Pacifics were usually "Fifty hundreds" (P-1 and subclasses), "Fifty two hundreds (P-5 and P-6), and "Fifty three hundreds" (P-7's).
"motors", as in "2nd motor back"
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Going back to the steam era, there was a whole cornucopia of amazing slang terms enginemen used to refer to locomotives. Just a brief sampler...Battleship, bobtail, bullmoose, calliope, coffeepot, gods of iron, goo-goo eye (a locomotive with two firedoors), hand bomber, hogs.
I could go on, but it gets bewildering. You get the idea.
I know there are Engineers that know a lot about the engine they are running and there are others that don't really know the difference between a Steam Locomotive and a Diesel.
I was at a RR park once with my son and a train was waiting for a signal to cross a bridge over the Mississippi. It was close enough for us to talk to the Engineer. I was not able to identify the locomotive, so I asked him. He looked around a bit and stuck his head out the window to see if there was anything printed on the side (there sometimes is), but he sat back down and said, "I don't know, I just drive them." I then asked him how he referred to it, I expected him to anwser with what he called it when on the radio with a Dispatcher. He started to say something, but stopped and chuckled, slapped his hand over his mouth and then responded, "I can't tell you THAT, there are children present!"
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Around here on the N&W, they were referred to in general by the first in class number. For example, any Class Y6 would be a "twenty one hundred", any Class A was a "twelve hundred", any class SD45 would be a "seventeen hundred", etc., etc.
.
Well, Enzoamps, I would say your question lacks qualification, i.e., the distinction between railroader and railroader. To some railroaders it is just a job, and to them a locomotive’s model designation is insignificant and they could care less about. Then, there are those that take an interest in the industry, and model types are significant to them, and they know various attributes and qualities of the models of their railroad’s power fleet. With that clarification your question comes to life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
When I was a kid 50-60 years ago, I spent a lot of time on the B&O YMCA porch next to the tracks and across from the roundhouse at Brunswick Maryland. An engine service facility and a yard out of sight either direction, one each for east and west bound. I'd spend all day watching trains go by, engines being serviced, etc. As happened time to time back then, a hostler saw me there every day, and beckoned me over to the roundhouse, wher I got to climb onto his GP7, and I got to move it onto the turntable and then back off it on a different track. Under his eye of course.
I recall proudly announcing this was a "EMD GP7", but he just called it a GM engine. Gee, I had thought they used the same terms we do.
So, in general, did railroaders use names like Mikado and Pacific, SD9 and NW1, or did they mostly use K4 and Q2 and DF? Or whatever. Or did they use slang I have no idea of? Or did they just call them by the numbers. "We have the 4393 today, Joe." Or "There's a couple of 4300's on the ready track."
You get the idea.
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