My travels throughout the Pacific Northwest take be through Tacoma and starting back in Mid-October I starting noticing a grouping of BNSF Executive SD70MAC's showing up at the Progress Rail shops here. What was unusual was that the units numbers were all closely grouped.
After doing a little research I see these units are about 20 years old and in what might be the beginning of a BNSF rebuild program. Since then, on occasions that I've driven by, various units have been out (or in) the shop. Also hoods have been removed, set outside and then returned in just primer. Its hard to get a real close look as they are behind a fence and sometimes parked next to each other.
The unit numbers seen are as follows:
9711, 9714, 9716, 9717, 9718, 9721, 9736
BNSF has been rumored to be starting a rebuild program which will probably be in-kind.
I can see BNSF rebuilding their AC-traction SD70MAC since they have such a large fleet of them. The much smaller roster of DC-traction SD75Ms and SD75I's don't really have a future with BNSF and many have already been removed from their roster with several sold to NS.
SooBoy61 My travels throughout the Pacific Northwest take be through Tacoma and starting back in Mid-October I starting noticing a grouping of BNSF Executive SD70MAC's showing up at the Progress Rail shops here. What was unusual was that the units numbers were all closely grouped. After doing a little research I see these units are about 20 years old and in what might be the beginning of a BNSF rebuild program. Since then, on occasions that I've driven by, various units have been out (or in) the shop. Also hoods have been removed, set outside and then returned in just primer. Its hard to get a real close look as they are behind a fence and sometimes parked next to each other. The unit numbers seen are as follows: 9711, 9714, 9716, 9717, 9718, 9721, 9736
those units plus 1 more are there for electrical system upgrades. The as-built Siemens inverters and associated gear are being replaced with Mitsubishi inverters and related gear as found on the SD70ACe.
Bryan Jones
Are the SD70MAC's that are being rebuilt getting renumbered or are they keeping their same numbers?
They are keeping their old numbers although I haven't seen a finished unit yet.
ML
Does the rebuild program go from one inverter per truck, two per locomotive, to one inverter per motor, total six per locomotive, to give better slip control and better traction in less-than-perfect rail adhesion conditions? Anyone know?
Since thay are keeping the same road numbers, will they be recieving a new dsignation such as SD70MACu or such to show that these units have been rebuilt?
Time for an update since there has been some changes in status. Unless there are some units still lurking in the car shops there appears to be a total of 12 units undergoing rebuild: 9714, 9716, 9717, 9718, 9721, 9725, 9728, 9730, 9736, 9738, 9746 and 9748. Gathering some info from other sources the rebuild seems to be related to largely electrical upgrades like new Mitsubishi Inverters, and new traction control systems. Over the past several months the units could be seen outside with 4 primered panels (two on each side) and the Primer Mover idling. This seems to be some sort of enhanced testing perhaps?
About two weeks ago units 9721, 9730, 9736, 9746 and 9748 were lashed up on the outbound track in their original colors except the primered inverter panels. They have since departed the area and I presume headed east. Units 9714, 9716, 9717 and 9725 remain outside the shops idiling, also in their original colors. 9718 and 9738 were last seen mid-January and may have left. However, I have seen several primered radiator hoods so one or both could be inside the shops.
The real find was last night when I stopped by only to find a brand new sparkling 9728 in a H3 paint scheme parked on the outbound track. Not only was it new but it had a new designation, a SD70MACe. I took a nighttime photo but haven't figured out how to post it if anyone is interested.
So, far this seems to be a pilot program with a limited number of units but with BNSF having almost 800 units it looks like they are at least looking into a long range plan of rebuilding at least a portion of their stable. Could be cheaper than buying a bunch of new units with no proof they will last as long as the SD70MAC's.
Interesting that they are using that designation. I'm not surprised that they switched out the Siemens inverters for the SD70ACe Mitsubishi equipment, but I wonder if they bothered to upgrade them to the same Tier 2? Without any radiator modifications, I doubt it.
Two things-parts commonality with the newer units as well as preserving parts supply as I believe that Siemens have dropped the inverter line used on earlier EMD ACs.
NorthWestTwo things-parts commonality with the newer units as well as preserving parts supply as I believe that Siemens have dropped the inverter line used on earlier EMD ACs.
But didn't he mean the upgrade to tier 2 emissions?
Oh, right. As I understand it there isn't any. I was just wondering why they added the 'e' instead of some other letter that indicated modification. They would need larger radiators anyway as the SD70Ms required to meet Tier I. Later SD70MACs had similar radiators but it was originally for a bump in horsepower.
NorthWest Oh, right. As I understand it there isn't any. I was just wondering why they added the 'e' instead of some other letter that indicated modification. They would need larger radiators anyway as the SD70Ms required to meet Tier I. Later SD70MACs had similar radiators but it was originally for a bump in horsepower.
You will notice within the SD70MAC BN/BNSF orders there was seperate order numbers. You will see all but two of the units listed above are apart of the 956615 order. You can see all the order(s) serial numbers here:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locolist.aspx?id=BNSF&mid=19&Page=1
956615-1 "9717" was the first SD70MAC's built after the BN SF merger, delivery date of 1/1996 and the first order to include Seperate Circuit Aftercooled Tier 1. An engine rebuild is required to meet Tier 1+.
Hope that answers your speculation.
What does 615 correspond to?
And I thought that Tier 1 standards were only mandated for those produced from 2002-2004, either new or when rebuilt, with Tier 0 covering EMD's that are remanufactured from those produced from 1973 through 2001?
So does that mean the 9400's, if they're ever rebuilt in this program, will remain designated as SD70MAC? They're the oldest SD70MAC's on the roster or anywhere, and I assume only have to be Tier 0?
The absence of hundreds of their oldest SD70MAC's is conspicuous as well. Unless they did a light overhaul on them that meant that they were in better condition than these newer units once this capital rebuild program was started, I wouldn't think that it bodes well for the long-term survival of 9400-9571.
Even a fair chunk of the 946565 order, numbered 9572-9712, appears possibly threatened since only the 2nd highest number in the fleet was part of this initial group that was rebuilt. That to me suggests that a change was possibly made late in production of that order that makes the newest members of that group more desirable to rebuild for continued service than the bulk of the earlier group.
And judging by a fair number being stored from their older SD70MAC's, I assume that they haven't received that work that would now be keeping them out of the rebuild shop while newer sisters go in.
Leo_Ames And I thought that Tier 1 standards were only mandated for those produced from 2002-2004
And I thought that Tier 1 standards were only mandated for those produced from 2002-2004
Leo_Ames So does that mean the 9400's, if they're ever rebuilt in this program, will remain designated as SD70MAC? They're the oldest SD70MAC's on the roster or anywhere, and I assume only have to be Tier 0?
They would have to be Tier 0+ ; when remanufactured/engine overhaul.
NorthWest Interesting that they are using that designation. I'm not surprised that they switched out the Siemens inverters for the SD70ACe Mitsubishi equipment, but I wonder if they bothered to upgrade them to the same Tier 2? Without any radiator modifications, I doubt it.
Northwest: Regarding your question about the removal of Siemens Inverters in favor of the Mitsubishi model.
There may be a partial answer that appreared in a TRAINS Newswire atticle dated Feb.10th,2016 on a NS rebuild program [NS progresses on its SD70ACU program] By Chris Guss
FTA:"...The program which began in 2015 is the latest for the railroad to upgrade older, less reliable locomotives in its fleet. The program draws from the 100 former Union Pacific SD90MACs acquired second hand from EMD. The rebuild program features a complete electrical upgrade, replacing the existing Siemens electrical equipment, including the inverters, with Mitsubishi electronics. The existing cab is replaced with a new isolated SD70ACe cab along with a number of other smaller changes to the locomotive during rebuild. The changes bring the locomotive up to essentially the same mechanical specification as EMDs SD70ACes. The first two SD70ACUs released from Altoona were NS Nos. 7248 and 7283 in January. Both units were sent to Progress Rail’s Muncie, Ind., plant for testing..."
Apparently, BNSF is going in a similar direction with their rebuild program(?)
The question seems to be: will BNSF rebuildf the units in-house, or farm the work out to a third party rebuilder on their sizeable fleet? see list @ http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locolist.aspx?id=BNSF
I really wonder if we are reading more into this than is there, and if so, I'm sorry for bringing it up. It's just that the 'e' means so much in modern EMD nomenclature as it indicates later modification of the SD70 and SD80 line to meet Tier II standards. (Had the 'M' not been redundant we could have had SD70MACes. Although, the SD70M-2 also is Tier-II compliant without the 'e'. Perhaps they would have been SD70MAC-2s?)
I don't think there is much of a question regarding the uprade of inverter technology. These rebuilds are getting Mitsubishi equipment not only for the reasons stated above but most importantly because it is the current popular system.
Fed up with the quote editor tonight, so snipped out:
EntropyFor "switch" engines. Line haul was 1993-2004 for Tier 1.
Then what happened with UP's SD70Ms? The first unit with flared radiators, 4710, was built in January 2002. The previous unit, 4709, built in August 2001 lacked them.
Without checking, I think the only SD70MACs built after 1/1/2002 were CSX and ARR units that had the flared radiators. I think this was for emissions compliance and suspect EMD used the uprated 16-710G3 also used in the SD75 series on these later units.
NorthWest I really wonder if we are reading more into this than is there, and if so, I'm sorry for bringing it up. It's just that the 'e' means so much in modern EMD nomenclature as it indicates later modification of the SD70 and SD80 line to meet Tier II standards. (Had the 'M' not been redundant we could have had SD70MACes. Although, the SD70M-2 also is Tier-II compliant without the 'e'. Perhaps they would have been SD70MAC-2s?) I don't think there is much of a question regarding the uprade of inverter technology. These rebuilds are getting Mitsubishi equipment not only for the reasons stated above but most importantly because it is the current popular system.
Thanks, M636C. I had always assumed it meant 'environmental' but that makes a whole lot more sense. Thanks!
NorthWest Fed up with the quote editor tonight, so snipped out: Entropy For "switch" engines. Line haul was 1993-2004 for Tier 1. Then what happened with UP's SD70Ms? The first unit with flared radiators, 4710, was built in January 2002. The previous unit, 4709, built in August 2001 lacked them. Without checking, I think the only SD70MACs built after 1/1/2002 were CSX and ARR units that had the flared radiators. I think this was for emissions compliance and suspect EMD used the uprated 16-710G3 also used in the SD75 series on these later units.
Entropy For "switch" engines. Line haul was 1993-2004 for Tier 1.
There's a caveat to 1993-2001 'line haul' locomotive emission compliance.
From the EPA-
*Locomotive models that were originally manufactured in model years 1993-2001, but were not originally equipped with a seperate coolant system for intake air are subject to Tier 0 rather than Tier 1 standards.
While EPA states for line haul 1993-2004 is Tier 1, (most) UP SD70M were Tier 0 using jacket water aftercooling through 2001.
UP SD70M 4635-4639 are actually Tier 1 built before 2002, explained in this link:
http://utahrails.net/up-diesel-roster/up-diesel-roster-52.php
Strange, but that makes sense. I wonder why the EPA set it up that way.
NorthWestStrange, but that makes sense. I wonder why the EPA set it up that way.
I think it's the way the Government worded it. Change the grammar a bit to reflect that the engines built WITH the cooling enhancements are made subject to Tier 1 criteria, because more capable of achieving it than engines without them, and it makes full sense. (At least it does to me.)
Time for an update as it appears that the SD70MAC rebuild program is continuing at Progress Rail Tacoma. Recent arrivals include BNSF 9749, 9750, 9752, 9753 and 9769. The process seems to have been streamlined somewhat in that one unit has already had its paint stripped from the hood and is receiving the new inverters. The first batch didn't receive new paint until they were ready to be rolled out.
There appears to be more units inside also, as 4 primer mover hood sections were spotted out in the back lot yesterday. This brings up a couple of questions. With that many hoods removed, is that part of the process to access the control systems or are they doing an overhaul of the prime mover at this time? Which brings up the next question. How does BNSF determine which units are getting the upgrade? Are these units that have been already had their prime mover overhauled and have been deemed mechanically sound or are they the ones with the fewest issues? BNSF seems to proud of them as I've seen recent photos of them paired up leading freights. Or is this just a case of a kid with a new toy?
At some point in the production of SD70MAC locomotives the Diesel Engine switched from a 710G3B-EC engine to a 710G3B-ES engine. One of the notes in my EMD SD70MAC shop manual says that locomotives equipped with the early EC series engine has two water pumps, one supplies water to each bank of cylinders of the diesel. The newer ES version also has two water pumps, but one pumps water to both banks of the diesel, while the other pumps water to the turbocharger aftercooler. And the plumbing arrangement is very different. I suspect that only SD70MACs with the ES engines are being upgraded. It is also being reported that they are officially being rated at 3999 hp. to keep them out of the mainline freight pool.
Interesting. I wonder why that is, as they mainline service is just about the only role they will be good at?
Rebuilt 9748 on a grain train:
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/578133/
Perhaps 3,999 gets them out of the most demanding coal service, leaving them other mainline assignments like this pictured grain train?
I think it's under 3,000 hp that makes a BNSF locomotive dedicated for local services (Some SD40-2's for instance are down as having 2,999 hp just to keep them out of the mainline pool). So this is still 1,000 too much even if it made sense to be used in such service.
Is this a paper change like I just mentioned with SD40-2's? Or has it actually been derated 300 hp, which is what hundreds of early SD70MAC's were delivered at?
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