Switch engines and restrooms

[Speaking clock]

Not too long ago my dad got me an HOscale alco s4 with DCC sound. Now that I have a lot of end cab switch engines ( an alco s4, an s2 & an EMD SW 1500) I began to wonder where the bathrooms are if they have any.

 

 

i'm wondering because I was planning to put the sw1500 in road service.

[BaltACD]

Speaking clock

Not too long ago my dad got me an HOscale alco s4 with DCC sound. Now that I have a lot of end cab switch engines ( an alco s4, an s2 & an EMD SW 1500) I began to wonder where the bathrooms are if they have any.

i'm wondering because I was planning to put the sw1500 in road service.

Nature facilities for end cab swithers are in the Yard Office or Crew Room.

[NorthWest]

Later MP15 series switchers intended to be operated both in yards and on the road did have optional bathrooms if crew agreements required them. They were accessible from the side in the hood forward of the cab.

[Firelock76]

Guess it was a lot easier back in the steam days when the crews could (ahem) on the coal piles.

[BaltACD]

Firelock76

Guess it was a lot easier back in the steam days when the crews could (ahem) on the coal piles.

and then have it turned to ash!

[rfpjohn]

Frequent "watering" of ballast from the walkways also helps keep dust down.

[Wizlish]

NorthWest

Later MP15 series switchers intended to be operated both in yards and on the road did have optional bathrooms if crew agreements required them

4' longer carbody - toilet is in the hood between the cab and alternator. 

Be advised if you want to use an endcab locomotive for road service: the rules are now Federally specified, not just subject to union arrangements...

[Caution - longwinded FRA part 229 verbiage follows]

 

CHAPTER II--FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION

Sec. 229.137 Sanitation, general requirements.

(a) Sanitation compartment. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of
this section, all lead locomotives in use shall be equipped with a
sanitation compartment. Each sanitation compartment shall be:
(1) Adequately ventilated;
(2) Equipped with a door that:
   (i) Closes, and
   (ii) Possesses a modesty lock;
(3) Equipped with a toilet facility, as defined in this part;
(4) Equipped with a washing system, as defined in this part, unless
the railroad otherwise provides the washing system to employees upon
reporting for duty or occupying the cab for duty, or where the
locomotive is equipped with a stationary sink that is located outside of
the sanitation compartment;
(5) Equipped with toilet paper in sufficient quantity to meet
employee needs, unless the railroad otherwise provides toilet paper to
employees upon reporting for duty or occupying the cab for duty; and
(6) Equipped with a trash receptacle, unless the railroad otherwise
provides portable trash receptacles to employees upon reporting for duty
or occupying the cab for duty.

(b) Exceptions. (1) Paragraph (a) of this section shall not apply
to:
   (i) Locomotives engaged in commuter service or other short-haul
passenger service and work trains on which employees have ready access to railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of the
locomotive or elsewhere on the train, that meet otherwise applicable
sanitation standards, at frequent intervals during the course of their
work shift;
   (ii) Locomotives engaged in switching service on which employees
have ready access to railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of
the locomotive, that meet otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at
frequent intervals during the course of their work shift;
   (iii) Locomotives engaged in transfer service on which employees
have ready access to railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of the locomotive, that meet otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at frequent intervals during the course of their work shift;
   (iv) Locomotives of Class III railroads engaged in operations other
than switching service or transfer service, that [were] not equipped with a
sanitation compartment as of June 3, 2002.  Where an unequipped
locomotive of a Class III railroad is engaged in operations other than
switching or transfer service, employees shall have ready access to
railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of the locomotive that
meet otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at frequent intervals
during the course of their work shift, or the railroad shall arrange for
enroute access to such facilities;
   (v) Locomotives of tourist, scenic, historic, or excursion railroad
operations, which are otherwise covered by this part because they are
not propelled by steam power and operate on the general railroad system
of transportation, but on which employees have ready access to railroad-
provided sanitation facilities outside of the locomotive, that meet
otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at frequent intervals during
the course of their work shift; and
   (vi) Except as provided in Sec. 229.14 of this part, control cab
locomotives designed for passenger occupancy and used in intercity push-
pull service that are not equipped with sanitation facilities, where
employees have ready access to railroad-provided sanitation in other
passenger cars on the train at frequent intervals during the course of
their work shift.
(2) Paragraph (a)(3) of this section shall not apply to:
   (i) Locomotives of a Class I railroad which, prior to [the effective
date of this section], were equipped with a toilet facility in which
human waste falls via gravity to a holding tank where it is stored and
periodically emptied, which does not conform to the definition of toilet
facility set forth in this section.  For these locomotives, the
requirements of this section pertaining to the type of toilet facilities
required shall be effective as these toilets become defective or are
replaced with conforming units, whichever occurs first.  All other
requirements set forth in this section shall apply to these locomotives
as of June 3, 2002; and
   (ii) With respect to the locomotives of a Class I railroad which,
prior to June 3, 2002, were equipped with a sanitation system other than
the units addressed by paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, that contains and removes human waste by a method that does not conform with
the definition of toilet facility as set forth in this section, the requirements of this section pertaining to the type of toilet facilities shall apply on locomotives in use on July 1, 2003.  All other requirements set forth in this section shall apply to the locomotives of this Class I railroad as of June 3, 2002.
   (c) Defective, unsanitary toilet facility; prohibition in lead position. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(1) through (5) of this section, if the railroad determines during the daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21 that a locomotive toilet facility is defective or is unsanitary, or both, the railroad shall not use the locomotive in the lead position. The railroad may continue to use a lead locomotive with a toilet facility that is defective or unsanitary as of the daily inspection only where all of the following conditions are met:
   (1) The unsanitary or defective condition is discovered at a
location where there are no other suitable locomotives available for
use, i.e., where it is not possible to switch another locomotive into the
lead position, or the location is not equipped to clean the sanitation
compartment if unsanitary or repair the toilet facility if defective;
   (2) The locomotive, while noncompliant, did not pass through a
location where it could have been cleaned if unsanitary, repaired if
defective, or switched with another compliant locomotive, since its last
daily inspection required by this part;
   (3) Upon reasonable request of a locomotive crewmember operating a
locomotive with a defective or unsanitary toilet facility, the railroad
arranges for access to a toilet facility outside the locomotive that meets otherwise applicable sanitation standards;
   (4) If the sanitation compartment is unsanitary, the sanitation
compartment door shall be closed and adequate ventilation shall be
provided in the cab so that it is habitable; and
   (5) The locomotive shall not continue in service in the lead
position beyond a location where the defective or unsanitary condition
can be corrected or replaced with another compliant locomotive, or the
next daily inspection required by this part, whichever occurs first.
   (d) Defective, unsanitary toilet facility; use in trailing position.
If the railroad determines during the daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21 that a locomotive toilet facility is defective or is unsanitary, or both, the railroad may use the locomotive in trailing position. If the railroad places the locomotive in trailing position, they shall not haul employees in the unit unless the sanitation compartment is made sanitary prior to occupancy. If the toilet facility is defective and the unit becomes occupied, the railroad shall clearly mark the defective toilet facility as unavailable for use.
   (e) Defective, sanitary toilet facility; use in switching, transfer service. If the railroad determines during the daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21 that a locomotive toilet facility is defective, but sanitary, the railroad may use the locomotive in switching service, as set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of this section, or in transfer service, as set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section for a period not to exceed 10 days. In this instance, the railroad shall clearly mark the defective toilet facility as unavailable for use. After expiration of the 10-day period, the locomotive shall be repaired or
used in the trailing position.
   (f) Lack of toilet paper, washing system, trash receptacle. If the railroad determines during the daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21 that the lead locomotive is not equipped with toilet paper in sufficient quantity to meet employee needs, or a washing system as required by paragraph (a)(4) of this section, or a trash receptacle as required by paragraph (a)(6) of this section, the locomotive shall be equipped with these items prior to departure.
   (g) Inadequate ventilation. If the railroad determines during the daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21 that the sanitation compartment of the lead locomotive in use is not adequately ventilated as required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section, the railroad shall repair the ventilation prior to departure, or place the locomotive in trailing position, in switching service as set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of this section, or in transfer service as set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section.
   (h) Door closure and modesty lock. If the railroad determines during the daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21 that the sanitation compartment on the lead locomotive is not equipped with a door that closes, as required by paragraph (a)(2)(i) of this section, the railroad shall repair the door prior to departure, or place the locomotive in trailing position, in switching service as set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of this section, or in transfer service as set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section. If the railroad determines during the daily inspection required by Sec. 229.21 that the modesty lock required by paragraph (a)(2)(ii) of this section is defective, the modesty lock shall be repaired pursuant to the requirements of
Sec. 229.139(e).
   (i) Equipped units; retention and maintenance. Except where a railroad downgrades a locomotive to service in which it will never be occupied, where a locomotive is equipped with a toilet facility as of [the effective date of the final rule], the railroad shall retain and maintain the toilet facility in the locomotive consistent with the requirements of this part, including locomotives used in switching service pursuant to paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of this section, and in transfer service pursuant to paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section.
   (j) Newly manufactured units; in-cab facilities. All locomotives manufactured after June 3, 2002, except switching units built exclusively for switching service and locomotives built exclusively for commuter service, shall be equipped with a sanitation compartment accessible to cab employees without exiting to the out-of-doors for use.  No railroad may use a locomotive built after June 3, 2002, that does not comply with this subsection.
   (k) Potable water. The railroad shall utilize potable water where
the washing system includes the use of water.

[Firelock76]

Wow.  Like I said, things were a lot easier in the steam days.

No way can you whiz through those regs in a reasonable amount of time.

[carnej1]

Firelock76

Wow.  Like I said, things were a lot easier in the steam days.

No way can you whiz through those regs in a reasonable amount of time.

 

But no "Modesty lock" back then..

 

[Firelock76]

carnej1

 

Firelock76

Wow.  Like I said, things were a lot easier in the steam days.

No way can you whiz through those regs in a reasonable amount of time.

 

 

 

 

But no "Modesty lock" back then..

 

 

Hey, people were tough back then, and sometimes you have to be tough now.

One thing any veteran can tell you is when you arrive at basic training one of the things you have to leave behind is any idea of privacy.  You get used to it, trust me.

[cefinkjr]

Wizlish

Be advised if you want to use an endcab locomotive for road service: the rules are now Federally specified, not just subject to union arrangements... [Caution - longwinded FRA part 229 verbiage follows] CHAPTER II--FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION Sec. 229.137 Sanitation, general requirements. (a) Sanitation compartment. Except as provided in ... [ad infinitum ad absurdum] 

Since Speaking clock is speaking (sorry, couldn't resist) of an HO scale (1/87) SW 1500, that reg is longer than the locomotive! 

Time to renew your Modeler's License, Speaking.

[Speaking clock]

So if I have a caboose with a bathroom that meets  wizlish' stuff then it would be fine to use the units in road service right?

by road I mean a branchline "turn", that is about 30 miles round trip.

[Deggesty]

Firelock76

 

 

carnej1

 

Firelock76

Wow.  Like I said, things were a lot easier in the steam days.

No way can you whiz through those regs in a reasonable amount of time.

 

 

 

 

But no "Modesty lock" back then..

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, people were tough back then, and sometimes you have to be tough now.

One thing any veteran can tell you is when you arrive at basic training one of the things you have to leave behind is any idea of privacy.  You get used to it, trust me.

 

Ah, yes. When I was in college, going on 61 years ago, one of my friends, who had spent three years in the Marine Corps, would walk between his room and the head (yes, that is what we called them) with his towel over his shoulder and soap and washcloth in his hand. His cousin, who had also spent three years in the Marine Corps, was a little more modest in the hall. However, there was no modesty in the heads.

There was the story that a few years earlier another student preferred carrying his towel instead of wearing it--and one day the Dean of Women came upstairs (I was not told why) when he was in the hall--and he quickly covered his face with his washcloth and went on his way.

[Wizlish]

Speaking clock

So if I have a caboose with a bathroom that meets  wizlish' stuff then it would be fine to use the units in road service right?

by road I mean a branchline "turn", that is about 30 miles round trip.

See the following language (from the excerpt that I posted)

   (iv) Locomotives of Class III railroads engaged in operations other
than switching service or transfer service, that [were] not equipped with a
sanitation compartment as of June 3, 2002.  Where an unequipped
locomotive of a Class III railroad is engaged in operations other than
switching or transfer service, employees shall have ready access to
railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of the locomotive that
meet otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at frequent intervals
during the course of their work shift, or the railroad shall arrange for
enroute access to such facilities;

See also the following exception for 'preservation' operations (which in part, tacitly, might suffer if required to modify historic locomotives to have modern chemical toilets)

I understand the (b) exceptions to be "Government common sense" (yes, perhaps oxymoron like 'military intelligence' or 'jumbo shrimp') to strike a fair balance between having toilet facilities conveniently available and railroads finding an excuse for providing toilet facilities right on the locomotive.  I would certainly consider having a caboose coupled next to the end cab of a switcher to fulfil the requirement of the section -- how economical it would be on the 'turn', with its enormous tare weight just to provide a toilet and its equally enormous effective blocking of many sightlines from the cab, is a somewhat different story.